Open 809: Charge Me Up! [Over]


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Post Post #2425 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 4:18 pm

Post by Raya36 »

Official Vote Count 3.03
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EliminationWith 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to eliminate someone.

DkKoba
(3): NDMath, Andante, Robert M Hunter
NDMath
(2): MathBlade, DkKoba,

Not Voting
(4): Flea the Magician, Yessiree, Save the Dragons, VFP

Deadline:
(expired on 2021-05-13 22:30:00).


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Post Post #2426 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 4:45 pm

Post by Robert M Hunter »

I received a belated message from the mod that Flow Trap is town.
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Post Post #2427 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 4:45 pm

Post by Save The Dragons »

there you go
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Post Post #2428 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 4:48 pm

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I am honored and surprised that he chose me.
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Post Post #2429 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 4:53 pm

Post by yessiree »

my current understanding is that if there is a redirector and it redirected flow with someone else, NDmath would be watching the redirected target, but the night kill would still hit flow since it cannot be redirected
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Post Post #2430 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 4:59 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 2426, Robert M Hunter wrote:I received a belated message from the mod that Flow Trap is town.
Uh huh.
Sure you did.

So ND+Robert or Koba+Robert goes up to level 11 and A was likely being just antitown and bad.
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Post Post #2431 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 5:01 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 2429, yessiree wrote:my current understanding is that if there is a redirector and it redirected flow with someone else, NDmath would be watching the redirected target, but the night kill would still hit flow since it cannot be redirected
If the redirector targeted ND this would be true.
However I don’t find that viable.
A redirector on flow would redirect Flow’s action of FN.

It’s still a 1v1

And pretty sure whichever way this goes I want Robert tomorrow.
I don’t see any world where flow picks Robert.
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Post Post #2432 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 5:01 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 2428, Robert M Hunter wrote:I am honored and surprised that he chose me.
This reads fake as duck.
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Post Post #2433 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 5:09 pm

Post by yessiree »

In post 2431, MathBlade wrote:
In post 2429, yessiree wrote:my current understanding is that if there is a redirector and it redirected flow with someone else, NDmath would be watching the redirected target, but the night kill would still hit flow since it cannot be redirected
If the redirector targeted ND this would be true.
However I don’t find that viable.
A redirector on flow would redirect Flow’s action of FN.

It’s still a 1v1

And pretty sure whichever way this goes I want Robert tomorrow.
I don’t see any world where flow picks Robert.
The wording from wiki is this regarding redirector
"Every Night Action performed on the first player you choose will be performed on the second player you choose"

It's the night actions performed ON the players that are swapped, not the players performing night actions that are swapped. So had the redirector swapped flow with someone else, it wouldn't be influencing flow's own night actions but rather the night actions performed on flow.

Does this make sense?
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Post Post #2434 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 5:11 pm

Post by DkKoba »

In post 2430, MathBlade wrote:
In post 2426, Robert M Hunter wrote:I received a belated message from the mod that Flow Trap is town.
Uh huh.
Sure you did.

So ND+Robert or Koba+Robert goes up to level 11 and A was likely being just antitown and bad.
I'm here like .. yes please keep tying robert to the PoE LMAO.

Thing is with all the craziness uh it could be that scum have a redirector and andante is scum here - they have played super weird but thats only if robert were to flip town here. Like the crazy dumb gambit stuff feels like a last stand like scum felt screwed bc ndmath flips redirector or something ?
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Post Post #2435 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 5:12 pm

Post by DkKoba »

It makes sense for scum to want redirector - dont wanna get into discussion of choice stage just stating how juicy redirector is as an ability.
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Post Post #2436 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 5:13 pm

Post by DkKoba »

In post 2426, Robert M Hunter wrote:I received a belated message from the mod that Flow Trap is town.
Were there any mod errors this game? @raya
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Post Post #2437 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 5:15 pm

Post by DkKoba »

In post 2405, Save The Dragons wrote:thinking out loud here

the watcher claim by scum!ND seems dangerous because if there's a(nother) watcher they'd be on flow, they'd be able to say they didn't see ND on flow thus proving ND a liar pretty quick. that makes me think scum or town, ND is a watcher and probably watched flow last night.

if scum have a redirector and used it on flow to gain his message, then it's ND as a watcher so the other scum would be a redirector. i'm having trouble seeing them not just redirecting to scum and letting flow take heat for the message.

they'd have to know not_mafia was a desparado though to redirect his target from Andante to some one else. that seems rather unlikely, and it seems unlikely that N_M killed desparado'd someone else on purpose, so i think Andante is pretty safe for me.

i don't find the scum redirector theory very likely at this juncture
not mafia was 3 shot btw - just a thought.
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Post Post #2438 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 5:15 pm

Post by DkKoba »

me, dangerously standing close to the edge of being modkilled
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"1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating. I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you [have] this way with yourself. You know what to say and when to say [it]." ~VFP
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Post Post #2439 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 5:17 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 2433, yessiree wrote:
In post 2431, MathBlade wrote:
In post 2429, yessiree wrote:my current understanding is that if there is a redirector and it redirected flow with someone else, NDmath would be watching the redirected target, but the night kill would still hit flow since it cannot be redirected
If the redirector targeted ND this would be true.
However I don’t find that viable.
A redirector on flow would redirect Flow’s action of FN.

It’s still a 1v1

And pretty sure whichever way this goes I want Robert tomorrow.
I don’t see any world where flow picks Robert.
The wording from wiki is this regarding redirector
"Every Night Action performed on the first player you choose will be performed on the second player you choose"

It's the night actions performed ON the players that are swapped, not the players performing night actions that are swapped. So had the redirector swapped flow with someone else, it wouldn't be influencing flow's own night actions but rather the night actions performed on flow.

Does this make sense?
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Redirector

Not sure what wiki you’re looking at yes. Might help if you link it. Below is the first paragraph.

A Redirector is a role that causes all actions taken on a particular Night by a specific player to target a specific second player instead of whatever their original target was.

By a specific player flow >> to another player X.

So yeah your interpretation requires something else unless redirector is not normal.
Let me check the open setup and if it has a different definition and if it does it would need to be changed for future setups.
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Post Post #2440 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 5:17 pm

Post by DkKoba »

@ndmath waiting on the quotes where i just "omgus robert" like you are claiming i am
Also that line is a slip - ill explain when i get home but your progression today has now slipped into Obvious Scum range.
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Post Post #2441 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 5:18 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 2437, DkKoba wrote:
In post 2405, Save The Dragons wrote:thinking out loud here

the watcher claim by scum!ND seems dangerous because if there's a(nother) watcher they'd be on flow, they'd be able to say they didn't see ND on flow thus proving ND a liar pretty quick. that makes me think scum or town, ND is a watcher and probably watched flow last night.

if scum have a redirector and used it on flow to gain his message, then it's ND as a watcher so the other scum would be a redirector. i'm having trouble seeing them not just redirecting to scum and letting flow take heat for the message.

they'd have to know not_mafia was a desparado though to redirect his target from Andante to some one else. that seems rather unlikely, and it seems unlikely that N_M killed desparado'd someone else on purpose, so i think Andante is pretty safe for me.

i don't find the scum redirector theory very likely at this juncture
not mafia was 3 shot btw - just a thought.
In post 2436, DkKoba wrote:
In post 2426, Robert M Hunter wrote:I received a belated message from the mod that Flow Trap is town.
Were there any mod errors this game? @raya
Raya can’t answer this as it would confirm or deny mechanics. Much as I would love them too.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841
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Post Post #2442 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 5:19 pm

Post by DkKoba »

In post 2441, MathBlade wrote:
In post 2437, DkKoba wrote:
In post 2405, Save The Dragons wrote:thinking out loud here

the watcher claim by scum!ND seems dangerous because if there's a(nother) watcher they'd be on flow, they'd be able to say they didn't see ND on flow thus proving ND a liar pretty quick. that makes me think scum or town, ND is a watcher and probably watched flow last night.

if scum have a redirector and used it on flow to gain his message, then it's ND as a watcher so the other scum would be a redirector. i'm having trouble seeing them not just redirecting to scum and letting flow take heat for the message.

they'd have to know not_mafia was a desparado though to redirect his target from Andante to some one else. that seems rather unlikely, and it seems unlikely that N_M killed desparado'd someone else on purpose, so i think Andante is pretty safe for me.

i don't find the scum redirector theory very likely at this juncture
not mafia was 3 shot btw - just a thought.
In post 2436, DkKoba wrote:
In post 2426, Robert M Hunter wrote:I received a belated message from the mod that Flow Trap is town.
Were there any mod errors this game? @raya
Raya can’t answer this as it would confirm or deny mechanics. Much as I would love them too.
I mean eh
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Post Post #2443 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 5:19 pm

Post by DkKoba »

Still dont believe them.

nd redirector flip i would reexamine andante 1000%
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Post Post #2444 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 5:20 pm

Post by DkKoba »

fwiw its probably just ndmath and Robert but id still like to make sure all avenues are explored and eliminated if impossible.
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Post Post #2445 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 5:20 pm

Post by MathBlade »

Congratulations, now you are a X-Shot Redirector.
Your abilities:

At X Night(s) of your choice you may target two players. Every Night Action performed on the first player you choose will be performed on the second player you choose; as if they had been targeted on them originally. Neither of your targets nor anyone who performed any Night Actions on your first target will be informed about the redirection. If your redirection fails, you will not be informed about it. You can not redirect Nightkills.

^^ so it looks like this redirector is not normal wow that’s what I get for being old.

I will make a note to ask the mods to change it post game.

This changes like my entire theory.
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Post Post #2446 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 5:21 pm

Post by yessiree »

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Charge_Me_Up!

im looking at the wiki for this setup specifically
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Post Post #2447 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 5:24 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 2446, yessiree wrote:https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Charge_Me_Up!

im looking at the wiki for this setup specifically
I will bring that up with the mods post game. Ideally Opens should be using the rules as the normal role or called a new name. That’s interesting.
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Post Post #2448 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 5:25 pm

Post by MathBlade »

For now yay Math was bad at setup shit.

Bad math.

Thanks yes for pointing it out
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Post Post #2449 (ISO) » Fri May 07, 2021 5:29 pm

Post by MathBlade »

In post 2446, yessiree wrote:https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Charge_Me_Up!

im looking at the wiki for this setup specifically
To be clear the wiki interpretation would win here.
So now that that’s straight.

Let’s probably elim Koba who flips town.
Then Andraste shoots ND or it’s a scum claim
Then we elim ND/Andraste

Or Koba is scum and this is literally all spew and go back to sorting if ND is genuine or if this is a gambit or wth happened.
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