FFVII Mafia: Over

[Westbrook_Owns_U]

I will be on V/LA for the next few weeks except for weekends. Replace me if needed.

[Yosarian2]

Haughty fool, the only one who made that argument was Cavebear

He was the one who made the argument; several others were convinced by it.

Your play here dosn't make sense for the reason you're giving. If you thought he was lying, all you had to do was make the case that you thought he was lying. He probably would have been lynched anyway; the day-cop claim made a few people blanch and pull back from the wagon, but he was still the #1 biggest wagon at the time. And that's what pro-town people do; they make cases, they argue points, they try to figure out who's scum together, they don't make up shit like that.

I know you like fake-roleclaiming even as town, even thought it's nearly always a bad play, but I don't see how you would have anything to gain as town here.

More likely, I think, is that you're some kind of scum (SK, or member of a second scum group, or something) who thought Xtoxm was probably lying scum of a different flavor (not a hard guess to make, considering how scummy he acted all day) and decided to try to use the situation to get yourself "confirmed" by pretending to be a cop and faking a guilty investigation on someone you were sure was scum. Bad luck on your part that it turned out he was really just a dumb townie; if he had been scum, you could have rode that fake-claim all the way through to endgame, especally if you are a NK-immune SK or something.

blablabla you would have given the same speech to Xtoxm if we lynched a town armlx...and then you would lynch Xtoxm today and we would have wasted two days for nothing just the same, all the while I'm facepalming this predictable succession of events.

Right. Which is why it's a really, really bad play to fakeclaim daycop on day 1 just to try to stop yourself from getting lynched as a vanillia, the way he did. And it would be an even worse play to do what you're now saying you did, which is to fake a daycop claim just to convince the town to do something just because you thought your judgement was better then that of the town.

It was a good play.

If you're a SK, then it actually probably is a good play in theory and you just got unlucky that he turned out to be town despite all appearances. If you're town, then it's a horrible, horrible play, and I don't see how you can think otherwise; I mean, if you had managed to lynch a scum who otherwise definatly would not have been lynched, it MIGHT have been arguable (althought still not on day 1, I think); but all you did was lynch a townie who probably would have been lynched anyway. How could lying, confusing the town, giving mis-information, claiming your role-name, and then getting caught lying possibly be a good pro-town play?

Here are the signals that tipped me off Xtoxm was lying:[/u]

1)Bugenhagen would either be a vanilla townie or a scum safe claim.
2)Xtoxm claimed vanilla thinking people would go after bigger fish, but when they didn't he lied and tried to get armlx lynched.
3)He put off answering flavor questions for an unacceptable amount of time.
4)He "investigated" in the random voting stage.
5)The rarity of the daycop role coupled with the disparity in the way he acted.

(nods) Yup, that was why I was voting him. Especally when he refused to answer Armlx's question when he was asked about when he was investiaged. So...why didn't you just make that argument, why lie, unless you're scum who was hoping to get confirmed?

[Grimmy]

I was trying to figure out why ABR would play the way he does, and the reason I was trying to find kept eluding me until Y2 posted this.

So...why didn't you just make that argument, why lie, unless you're scum who was hoping to get confirmed?

All in all, this may liekly become known as the ABR Gambit. Its risky, but if it works, it could carry him through the game.

However, I think Yos' point hits the nail on the head as to why he did this.

Hence

Vote: ABR

Grimmy

[MrBuddyLee]

More likely, I think, is that you're some kind of scum (SK, or member of a second scum group, or something) who thought Xtoxm was probably lying scum of a different flavor (not a hard guess to make, considering how scummy he acted all day) and decided to try to use the situation to get yourself "confirmed" by pretending to be a cop and faking a guilty investigation on someone you were sure was scum.

I totally agree with this conclusion, except for the way it conflicts with the fact that ABR claimed Cid.

Here's the thing though. We know Albert is a terrible player. So he probably didn't think his actions through. So if he's actually a townie who's NOT Cid, he didn't realize that by claiming Cid he'd get a power role outed. (Cid's likely power and is probably pondering whether or not to counterclaim Albert right now.) If he's scum, he claimed Cid knowing full well he could get counterclaimed and killed immediately. If he's the real Cid, he'd have to know his claim would get him killed if he got lucky about xtoxm.

So which is more likely? That Albert's stupid scum who fakeclaimed Cid, or really really stupid town who is in the process of outing the real Cid? Or is he the real Cid?

(Choice 4: Cid as safeclaim, yuck.)

[kloud1516]

Doing a reread. Will post something shortly.

[Yosarian2]

So which is more likely?...(Choice 4: Cid as safeclaim, yuck.)

This, I think.

In fact, having Cid as safeclaim makes the kind of gambit would make the kind of gambit I'm describing more tempting for a SK.

Albert, I have a question for you; say things had gone your way, and Xtoxm had been scum. What would you have done for the rest of the game? Would you have continued faking cop claims every day?

[Albert B. Rampage]

No, I am the real Cid. I do want to win, you know.

If I had to fake-claim as scum and out a power role I'd claim Cloud daycop of Vincent vig.

No Yosarian, I would have admitted I lied on day 2, claiming the ABR Gambit.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Anyway the whole "ABR might not be the real Cid" argument is retarded. If there was a real Cid that was not me, he would have thought, "hey ABR must be scum with armlx and he's going after our daycop". Then I'd be lynched.

[Jebus]

And how do we know that you're not doing this 'ABR' gambit as scum for once? (eg, you were town all the other times, but now you're doing it as scum?)

Also, I assume Cid is a minor character. If so, it's quite possible there is no such role named Cid.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Cid is a major character.

[Zakeri]

And how do we know that you're not doing this 'ABR' gambit as scum for once? (eg, you were town all the other times, but now you're doing it as scum?)

Also, I assume Cid is a minor character. If so, it's quite possible there is no such role named Cid.

Cid's actually a Rather Major character. In fact, once Cloud is brain dead and Tifa begins her journey into Cloud's mind, Cid becomes the Party Leader for a while. I think it's safe to say Allie wouldn't Claim as Cid unless he was Cid or it was provided as a Fake claim.

[Dead Rikimaru]

Vote Count Number Eight: The Midgar Zolom votecount

Albert B. Rampage - 6

(

iamausername, DynamoXI, TonyMontana, Zac, Jebus, Grimmy

)

CallMeLiam - 1

(

Zakeri

)

Zac - 1

(

armlx

)

armlx - 0

iamausername - 0

wolframnhart - 0

MBPikamon - 0

Jebus - 0

Empking - 0

Cludsy - 0

Zakeri - 0
Grimmy - 0
Yosarian2 - 0
kloud1516 - 0
SpamWise - 0
DynamoXI - 0
GhostWriter - 0
MrBuddyLee - 0
TonyMontana - 0
christiano drago - 0
Westbrook_Owns_U - 0
Cavebear with a toothache - 0

With 22 alive, it takes

12

to lynch.

[wolframnhart]

there are 22 people alive here folks, lets get a few of the non-posters to chime in here.

[armlx]

There are 14 people not voting. I expect each of them to have placed a vote in the next 7 days.

[wolframnhart]

I don't mind if they aren't voting, I would just like to see them chime in with something, a thought, a disagreement, a person they believe to be more scummy etc.

[armlx]

I don't mind if they aren't voting, I would just like to see them chime in with something, a thought, a disagreement, a person they believe to be more scummy etc.

That's a very loose definition of doing something. Mine makes sure everyone actually shows up and contributes an equivalent level of content, or is criticized appropriately for reasonless votes.

[wolframnhart]

mmmm point taken.

[armlx]

That said, if your vote would put someone at L-3 or above (stretching the boundary to ensure carefulness in not just having a lynch happen), replace it with an FOS.

[MrBuddyLee]

Thanks for the protip.

fos: armlx

[armlx]

Thanks for the protip.

fos: armlx

I'm interested, why FOS not vote?

[MBPikamon]

Vote: ABR

Eh, as stated, he has a meta for this, but it would be a great meta if he was scum.

Plus... why would he out himself as Cid if he was Cid?
As said, Cid is a major character, and I am pretty sure major characters will be great scum targets.

Also... about the dead Turk, looks like Xtomx was right about the mafia atleast being Shrina, or Shrina related.

4 Kills, 3 bullets, 1 sword. I doubt Cloud would use bullets, nor any soldiers, so that (for now) rules them out as killers or vigs.

Possible Shooters-Mafia (Duh), Vincent, and Barret.

Also, should I stop setup speculating?

[wolframnhart]

setup spec doesnt always help imo, but others might disagree.
Also, barret was killed at night, sooo that takes away one of your possible shooters-mafia.

[Cludsy]

I'll say it again, the reason I'm not voting ABR, is simply because there has been no counter claim. If there is no Cid in the game, then ABR has pulled out of the hat what is most likely the only major character not to appear in the game, and I don't see that happening.

Sure ABR played real bad D1, and sure he didn't turn out to be daycop and was lying, but the fact still stands that the evidence points to him being Cid, and lynching Cid probably isn't the best way forward.

If another person is Cid, then please prove ABR guilty so we can get this over with. If not, ABR, you better start telling us more what Cid can do, because otherwise you're gonna get lynched.

[armlx]

Eh, as stated, he has a meta for this, but it would be a great meta if he was scum.

The point of meta like that is it means an action normally scummy for a player isn't in that one extreme case.

Plus... why would he out himself as Cid if he was Cid?
As said, Cid is a major character, and I am pretty sure major characters will be great scum targets.

Except that in a well designed theme game, character power/relevance in the subject matter may or may not equal character power in the game.

[DynamoXI]

setup spec doesnt always help imo, but others might disagree.
Also, barret was killed at night, sooo that takes away one of your possible shooters-mafia.

Just wondering, but I noticed Barret was a townie, I thought he was Shinra, or am I thinking of someone else?