Micro 1010: Divide and Conquer: Round 2 - Game Over!

[NorwegianboyEE]

N_M actually deciding to play is something i like about N_M.
I think generally speaking it's not scum indicative for him.

idk, is this playing? It just seems like hes going with the popular opinion

Don't be so demanding. I'm not sure this is the time to have high expectations.

[Hopkirk]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... ct[]=35542

0- hi + vote
1- responding to some why voting X in a direct manner
2- vote/reason on someone with scumread
3 - responding to question about the vote to follow up
4- (a few days in) - has three scumreads and explains a reason for each one + a townread
There's an immediate sense of pressing people + giving reasons for votes and having a clear direction, all of what matches the impression i got from those first few posts in the other games i quoted above.
posts following this are harder to summarize but follow a similar path of having a clear direction and a focus on moving things forward while responding to thing.

this game feels markedly different at the start here where Luke doesn't seem to have a clear direction or any scumreads (still based on the recent readslist i asked for). there's markedly a lot more fluff, which could be due to friends being around/vibing with, so how does the vibing read to other people? either way, there's a lot more setup stuff, fluff, and generally contentless posts. in the other game everything is moving the game forwards and it feels resonably easy to see that even barely reading the posts. there's what seems to be a marked absence of proactivity here. like in the first 20 posts how many actually feel game advancing compared to spinning in place and struggling to get reads?

thoughts?

[Hopkirk]

Can you please spoiler your long posts.

i gave up after the third time the spoiler tags refused to work, presumably because of the spoilers within those posts

[Hopkirk]

Bingle and Lukewarm both have this same unpleasant vibe where they seem to be not really attempting to solve but rather observe what's happening and construct other players actions as suspicious.
To go into more detail, Lukewarms: "Can we talk about how weird Norwee's Marcistar read is".

First of all, why is he just saying "can we talk about", like he's just inviting discussion for it and wants to test the waters rather than actually argue for why it's suspicious for me to push Marcistar? Secondly, why doesn't he try to solve the game rather than just being kinda in the background and discussing? He's not being as pro-active as i'd expect of a town player.
As for Bingle, he seems to mostly be focused on this thing Hopkirk said, which i already said in the hood PT i don't believe is allignment indicative and a waste of time to focus on. Yet now he's brought it further and apparently finds it really suspicious of Hopkirk for some reason. And also it slightly pinged me when Bingle tried to shade me in 306, which coincidentally. Also has to do with my Marcistar read, like they both co-ordinated to try to push me for this.

I could see an Bingle/Lukewarm team.

this is in a large part what i was looking at. lukewarm is incredibly passive in comparsion to the other games i've looked at, especially in the early stages of the most comparable game

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ah yes, this forums formatting does suck when it comes to multi-spoiler posts.

[Hopkirk]

i would have just linked the posts but the length is part of the impact. and personally if someone lays out a long set of links to another thread then i uh... usually wouldn't follow them all. or any of them sometimes

[Lukewarm]

Still trying to get a better feel on Vander and Hop before I try any kind of push on Dunn.

Why do you need to have a better read on other players before pushing your scumread? I find that generally anti-town, town should always be making pushes and generating pressure

And what actions have you been taking to get a better feel of them?

VOTE: Lukewarm

Because I am not sure I even think that it is him? I have him as a SL not a ST, and I know that there is only 1 in the 6p group, so wanted to get a feel for everyone

[Lukewarm]

As a self diagnosis, the only thing I can think of is the buddying with Marci, but think that that has been pretty well explained - she is the reason I am in this game lol.

TBH, you're so focused on it that its starting to seem like an

excuse.

Other people keep bringing it up

[Lukewarm]

Spoiler:

I think that I just don't like the first half of Day 1

In response to Hopkrik:

I took my first game quite seriously - The game that Hop linked to / described in 376. Was a Newie game, with zero activity... Like Day 1 ended after 275 total posts in 10 irl days. . So I was simultaneously, a complete newb, trying-harding, and worried about the state of the thread. (Was vanilla townie)

Then I played in this game, tried to take it seriously, and realized

{snip}

So I decided that maybe I needed to take the game a bit less seriously if I was gonna enjoy this game,

-Replaced out of that game for an unrelated reason (conflict with another player), but my slot has since died, and revealed to be a Vanilla Townie.
So, I tried taking it seriously, and the response was... unpleasant. Decided I should take Day 1 less seriously if I am going to enjoy games on this site.

Then tried replacing into games to see how that felt (see hopkirk 372), and honestly kinda liked it because you get to skip Day 1. There is lots of content, and it is a lot easier to get a foot hold into the game imo.

And now I am here. Started Day 1 instead of replacing in, tried to seriously figure out the mechanical side of the game, but otherwise tried to approach it more laid back.

Just trying to have a good time

[Not_Mafia]

Norwee let’s call a truce for this game and vote Bingle with me

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwee let’s call a truce for this game and vote Bingle with me

That’s not 6p hood.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Just trying to have a good time

That’s not allowed in here you fiend.

[Not_Mafia]

Norwee let’s call a truce for this game and vote Bingle with me

That’s not 6p hood.

You could pretend it is

[Lukewarm]

My top Scum read is probably Not_Mafia. He feels different in this game, then in any game I have played in with him.

My experience has much more been that he posts very sparingly, then comes in with hard reads on people. And he just has not done this all game.

Like, he is almost the opposite. He came in, posted a lot, and did not give a single read til like his 33rd post (which from my experience, they normally come out in like post 5). And voted early(-ier then normal for him) against Bingle.

Overall, his playstyle this game feels very different from my other games with him, and every role flip that I have seen of him so far has been a town flip.

But I have not been pushing this because I thought voting from the 6p pool was better.

That may be part of the issue, that I feel like it is suboptimal to push my top Scum Read

[NorwegianboyEE]

Please summon Bingle to the thread o Lucifer my eternal lord.

[Bingle]

Please summon Bingle to the thread o Lucifer my eternal lord.

My pager beeped, what’s up?

[NorwegianboyEE]

If you would answer my question in hood PT and your response on accusations in recent posts.

[Bingle]

If you'll point them out to me I might respond slightly faster, but I'm reading up now.

[Bingle]

I generally feel like "Norway has low WIM as scum" is likely to be something Hopkirk felt is true regardless of his alignment in this game (or nEE's for that matter), like I don't think he's going to just make up a complete lie about another player's scum meta, especially when naming specific players as references. however I do not see why he deflected a question about it instead of just saying where he might have seen FL comment on it, so I can sympathize with Bingle's suspicion there. If this is a premeditated push from scum!Bingle I think it would be hard for him to continue pushing it if Hopkirk had brought receipts, but at the same time I could envision scum pouncing on a townie's careless remarks about meta, so I don't know if it's strictly a town-indicative push especially since odds are not in Bingle's favor.

It's not necessarily the belief that Norwee is low WIM as scum, that I find suspicious. It's the arbitrary attempt to add credibility to the claim. TownHopkirk says "Norwee has low WIM as scum" because he thinks that. Scum Hopkirk says {Laundry List of Players} say Norwee has low WIM as scum because he gains from us believing that.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Scum Hopkirk says {Laundry List of Players} say Norwee has low WIM as scum because he gains from us believing that.

Gains from it how?

[Bingle]

The lukewarm wagon is pretty meh, tbh. I don't see anything wrong with his play and I think Hopkirk is very obviously scummy. Feels like an attempt to distract me.

In a Hopkirk/Norwee world, the belief that Norwee is weakscum is helpful because it makes it easier for Norwee to be townread on effort.

In a Hopkirk/N_M world he sets up a ml on Norwee for being low WIM when being in a neighborhood with N_M is likely to cause Norwee to be low WIM.

Also, I just spent 10 minutes looking for an image in my ISO from a halfremembered game to post as a joke.

[Bingle]

Lie. verb.
to express an inaccurate or false statement

(Note: I reuploaded this. If someone knows what game I used it in originally, that might help my dwindling sanity.

[Bingle]

i gave up after the third time the spoiler tags refused to work, presumably because of the spoilers within those posts

Yeah, you have to break nested spoilers. I find starting the process with a replace all of spoiler= to area= and /spoiler to /area does the job nicely.

[Vanderscamp]

Hopefully here in several hours

[Bingle]

snip

I finally went over this, and I'm baffled that anyone could consider it a good case.

First of all, Hopkirk is comparing replacement catchup walls to a game with literally half the content (in the case of the shorter replacement wall) both in number of phases and in number of pages to content from the beginning of a game that's running exceptionally slowly.

Secondly, this is the super content rich post from a few days in referenced in the second half of the case:

My scumreads are Whemestar, Ivyeo and Clasko.

I explained my reasoning for Whemestar earlier.

Ivyeo does not seem to be contributing much to the conversation, and what they are sending is very wishy-washy. Their messages so far have been a vote, a quick unvote, and then this one:

Whilst I do see the scummyness in Wheme's posts, I'm not sure we want to cut Day 1 discussion to right here.

They just seem like they are being overly cautious, which I feel is more likely with a scum then a town.



Clasko hardly said anything until someone questioned it, then he town-read whemestar (my biggest scum vibes) because

their argument feels cyclical and non-scripted = less chance to be W v. W

And I don't understand the logic. Why would deducing that they are not BOTH scum automatically mean that neither one is?



I am town reading Demainer using Clasko's logic. It does not seem like a scum v scum conversation, and I think that whemestar is the more likely scum of the pair.

Compared to:

What other substance am I supposed to have already put into the thread?

Imo, the first order of business was figuring out which neighborhood we are going to be voting in today, so that is the conversation I have been engaging with the most so far. At this point, I think I am pretty settled on saying that we should vote from the 6p neighborhood.


At this point, I am really waiting for more content from Dunnstral, Vanderscamp, Hopkirk, and marcistar before I can really get started with my new goal of figuring out who we should vote for today.

The only read I actually have so far is a town read on Marci, because I think scum!marci would have played into my banter to attempt to pocket me, but no pocket attempt was made.

I think that the mafia put Norwee+N_M in the 3 person group because they knew it would lead to conflict, and put a lot of noise in the thread. And that strategy appears to be paying off, because they are doing exactly that. But that still leaves the question of whether you did it, and the 2 town players are falling for it, or if one of them did it as scum, and is egging on the other.

I am a little surprised at the amount of posts coming form Not_Mafia, in my expereince with him he has been a lot more sparse. In our last game he made 63 posts spread out over 30 days, and then in this game he is at 29 posts in like 6 hours, and that was also a game that had both Norwee and Not_Mafia in it...

So I am a bit suspicious that this is that "one of them did it as scum, and is egging on the other"

So of the three of you, I think it might actually be Not_Mafia... but he is such a hard person to read, by design, and it seems like his reputation has resulted in him almost having a site wide immunity from Day 1 eliminations.

So I am kind of glad we are not voting in the 3 player neighborhood today.

What other substance am I supposed to have already put into the thread?

Imo, the first order of business was figuring out which neighborhood we are going to be voting in today, so that is the conversation I have been engaging with the most so far. At this point, I think I am pretty settled on saying that we should vote from the 6p neighborhood.


At this point, I am really waiting for more content from Dunnstral, Vanderscamp, Hopkirk, and marcistar before I can really get started with my new goal of figuring out who we should vote for today.

The only read I actually have so far is a town read on Marci,

because I think scum!marci would have played into my banter to attempt to pocket me

, but no pocket attempt was made.

Marci is literally successfully pocketing you...

I think the "no pocket attempt was made" might have oversold my point, and caused you to overlook my true position in bold. I did not mean to say that just anyone would have behaved that way. Specifically, I think scum!marci would have played into the banter.

I am walking into this game on the heels of a game where Marci was scum. In that game, her first couple of posts leaned pretty heavily into bantering back and forth between the player she had played with before. And it worked, that player gave her a town read Day 1. So when I tried to put banter in place with her this game, and she met that banter with suspicion, both here and in the Neighborhood thread, it feels like the opposite of how she reacted in the last game (where she was scum).

So I am concluding that the difference was that in that game, she already knew the other person alignment, and her goal was pocketing the player she played with before, and in this game, her goal is to figure out the alignment of the player she played with before.

From literally the day the thread opened.

Hopkirk's meta case is clearly disingenuous bullshit.

Edited to fix broken tags - SirCakez