Newbie 2064 - (GG)

[Super]

I'd want to hear what you think you're seeing, because despite your own hesitance I still have a lingering sr on Dum who was Super's slot, which I believe you shut down for unknown reasons

okay, what's your read on me? Dum Dum is gone now, up up into the heavens - Super is here and would love for you to talk to her because then you'd know she is town and your fears will be gone! huzzah!

but no seriously, why even bring this up? Catboi has some pretty strong meta on me and out of anyone here can read me the best, it's interesting that you're trying to instill fear into him

[Super]

Ok, so, most of these are gut reads because I am definitely going to have to re-read this thread tomorrow, but

Nav and Unwnd I feel pretty confident as town
Super has seemed town pretty far, but tbh, I may just like her personality
catboi's slot was looking a bit suspicious, but is being redeemed slowly
James I'm really unsure about, and the fact that their slot claimed scum in the first page is not helping.
Orctin had been null-scum for a while, but the recent posts make me feel that it's better safe than sorry

So, VOTE: Orctin

E-1

I like to ask a question with votes, especially important ones, so
Who are your top 2 town reads right now?

So, lets summarise these reads shall we?

Nav - Town
Unwnd - Town
Super - Town
Catboi - Null
James - Null
Orctin - Scum-Lean

Correct me if I'm wrong.

3 Town Reads
2 Null Reads
1 Scum LEAN

Personally, I find this strange, probably due to no reasonings, but regardless.
Considering the one thing you decided to comment on was basically a defence of Orctin, along with him as a "Null-Scum" read, seriously strikes me as being off.
You're acting reluctant to Scum read Orctin, without even giving us any reason for bad vibes from him. You picked up something for an "unsure about" read, but not for your main scum read? How Bizarre.
I'm not giving you options to E-1 "pressure" Orctin with easy questions to get out of suspicions. Not to mention when it is work-out-able who his town reads are.
I don't like combining a read with a slot's predecessor, but I'm pretty certain you/NinjaStore and Orctin are a scum pair.

For anyone wondering, these are my current reads from most Town to Least:
Catboi/Unwnd - Town
Navigatorv - Town
Super - Null
NinjaStore/Zyla - Scum
Orctin - Scum

The reasoning for Super being Null and not Town, is in case 836 is some weird attempt at backing off from the Orctin wagon. If somehow Orctin doesn't flip red Super is red.

UNVOTE: Orctin
VOTE: Zyla

wait you said that I was first defending my partner (Orc) and would look bad if he flipped scum and now you're saying if he doesn't flip red I'm also scum? what is it ?????

[Super]

I'd want to hear what you think you're seeing, because despite your own hesitance I still have a lingering sr on Dum who was Super's slot, which I believe you shut down for unknown reasons

My primary reason was that the ludicrous play on page 5 from Dum screams newbie town trying to make a big play, and makes the slot unlikely to be partnered with orctin because of what happened. I also think super is more capable as scum and wouldn't choose to fritter so uselessly like she's doing now - her reluctance to push anyone as a scumread is more likely caused by townie paralytic indecision than unwillingness to fake a case on anyone. Maybe I'm overestimating her to my own detriment but that's how I feel.

As for you, well, my perspective is biased from having been on your team but a lot of your catchup felt like writing words for the sake of words wore than anything, aside from the orctin read it didn't feel solid. That's a vague answer because the read right now is just impressionistic. I townread other players more than your slot, is the thing.

this read on me by Catboi is so depressing but so goddamn true lmao

I am 100% more capable as scum (but tbh Idk how hard I'd being trying as scum in this game) and my paranoia creates hesitancy to out reads and just comes from the lack of effort I've made in getting reads I'm confident in, but I promise to make more effort tonight

[Super]

Yes, we've known each other for almost 11 years. She's a competent scum player who solo carried a werewolf win in a run of jungle oligarchy (That I effectively left her alone in because I couldn't keep up with post volume >_>). Unfortunately the records of those games have been memory holed from the internet forever. I feel like she'd be playing with more of an agenda here and she's certainly not afraid to bus. It wouldn't be impossible for her to feel she's painted into a corner, I suppose. But then I wouldn't expect her to come back with a townread on ninjastore when that just hems her in further. I wouldn't say it's impossible but the explanation would be frankly bafflingly poor play on her end if so and I learn toward that not being the case.

woo I love you <3

[Super]

I find it weird that you said it'd look bad for me if Orc flips red and now you're saying it'd look bad if he flips town! James!!! get your act together!!!! what is it!!! do I just always look bad to you?? huh???

rude.

ok i'll stop being a muppet and ISO some peeps and get better reads cos otherwise I'm gonna just look like a saggy town mess and everyone will scumread me for it

[Super]

actually, Catboi (Gira bb), why haven't you been more paranoid of me? I have had you pocketed as mafia multiple games and for some reason maybe I'd see you being more hesitant on reading me since I've burned you so many times. or is it the fact you had Dum to read beforehand and that has initially helped your read on me?

I'm only saying this because I'd almost expect you to be slightly more sus of me whereas it feels like you just *know* I'm town here and it's nice and all for me, but I still gotta question the certainty (I'm pretty sure you're town but I'm never 100%)

[Super]

although in saying all of that I think you outed pretty decent reasons for townreading me so you don't need to answer that

I'm gonna do some reading and rest a bit and then I will post my finalised proper reads. sorry for being so chatty tonight.

[Super]

before I reread tho I'm gonna have a bath.... and watch some ginny and georgia on netflix..... THEN I will do God's work for y'all

this is to anyone who might be waiting patiently for Super's beautiful, sexy reads to pop up in a few minute or hours or whatevers

they will be up within... 6 hours. give me 6 hours.

xoxo

[JamesTheNames]

Quote wall 871

Hi navi! Obviously me saying both to Catboi is a joke haha, but I do like pocketing people (being townread) as town cos then the game is easier for everyone

sorry I haven't been hyperposting much, I'm kinda struggling in this game cos its lack of interest and no one seems to be posting much. I struggle at getting reads without having constant back and forth interactions and I've kinda been waiting for people to be more active

It's okay to let the game breathe if there's nothing new to say. Did you have any reads you actually wanted to discuss?

not really. I think you and unwnd are hopefully town

I think I'm the only one who isn't confident on an Orc vote because generally when it's a whole town consensus it makes me feel icky; I don't really know what they're doing though, I don't even know who they have townreads on; they're definitely lower in my PoE

I find it strange that Ninja subbed out and I don't wanna make speculations on why they subbed

Navi's catchup was meh

I like unwnd unvoting Orc, that was towny I guess

you can tell I'm really caring about this game lmao

You are aware how bad it will look for you if he flips red here?

If I was scum here and Orc was my partner I would definitely be bussing right now - especially if everyone was finding my partner scummy. I have immense TMI as scum and tend to find it really fucking hard to not bus my partners because I find them so scummy and tend to out reads on them that taints them in a bad light. The fact that I haven't even really had a strong scumtell on anyone is probably the biggest meta-reason I'm town this game; because I would have more information and therefore be able to probably taint at least one person in a bad light (aka my partner)

not to toot my own horn or anything, but I'm a pretty good scum-player. I'd likely be controlling the game a lot more than I am now and pushing my reads a bit harder, instead I am kinda nervous to vote and feel less confident in myself because I hate being wrong as town. I will admit this game hasn't been that interesting to me, I feel bad subbing in and being a bit useless, especially since town is my fav alignment and normally I care a lot more - I don't want the game to fully take over my life though (which tends to happen to me when I'm town and care too much also) so I've been a bit more laid back this game than all my previous ones. I have an immense fear of being wrong, and I have had a gut nervous feeling that Orc might be town - but tbh his posts have sucked and at this point I'm probably just going to vote him out based on PoE. If he flipped red I'd look bad if I was a damn noob, but because I'm pretty decent at being mafia it'd honestly clear me cos I know how to be towny as scum and make myself look pretty clear after my partner got voted off maybe I'm being a little arrogant here though (I could just be playing bad!!! but nah I'm too competitive lmao).

ANYWAYs, i'M SEmi offended you'd think Orc would be my partner here lmao, like c'mon James give me more credit

I'm trying to figure out what scums optimal move for claiming here would be (would mafia claim a PR at this point ? I feel like Orc as scum knowing he's getting voted would try and out a PR, anyone have thoughts on what they think he'd claim as scum?) - I think we have a few different scenarios also

Scenario 1:

Orc is Scum

I think if Orc is scum then his partner has probably also given up slightly (Ninja leaving(?) or Navi) - I doubt Catboi is ever Orc's partner here, I also don't really think Unwnd has potential for being his partner but I'd need to reread their interactions after the potential Orc flip, or James probably isn't (since putting him at E-1) unless he has TMI that Orc is scum and will try getting me voted tomorrow (also I just wanna say; James stop outing PR reads it's fucking anti-town).


Scenario 2:

Orc is town

The potential of Orc being town (which worries me the most) means that my reads are a bit blah.
At the moment I'm feeling pretty confident Catboi and Unwnd are town - however, if Orc flipped town I'd re-evaluate most of these reads (except for maybe Catboi, because I just tr Jackson p hard D1, and also I liked Catboi's posts about me today, I doubt he'd he interacting with me the way he is as scum and his meta-read on me is legit lmao, I appreciate you Gira <3)
James kinda irks me with his mindset sometimes - his reasoning for null-reading me is kinda funny, I think I've said enough to have a pretty solid understanding of my alignment by now and it feels like he randomly cherry picks things I say to make me seem scummy, teehee. But then also I dunno if he genuinely is just paranoid of my slot.

I wish I had a proper 1v1 back and forth with Navi to get a better idea of them, I was confused by a lot of their early posts and I wish they were here more to get a better read - I just struggle at the slow pace fuck it imma just mark Navi as town for now, honestly maybe even more than James - however, I could probably see a more likely Orc/Navi pairing than a James/Orc pairing

OH and another thing about James is the fact they voted Zyla instead of continuing to vote Orc could be seen as kinda towny (if Orc is town) because why would James start targeting someone different if town was already being voted - I think a town Orc flip would make James look good somewhat - but I wouldn't completely rule out a James/Orc pairing thus far

these are just ramblings without rereading off the top of my head btw, I haven't fully read into every player properly and only have guttish reads ngl. from order of towny to least I;mma just throw it out like this

Catboi
Unwnd
Navi
James
Ninja
Orc

ngl I probably have Navi/James/Ninja all really close together in my null and Orc leaning scum the most - actually, James is probably even higher lol lemme fix

MAYBE
Catboi
James
Unwnd
Ninja
Navi
Orc

ehhhhh, I really don't know. I'm honestly writing out this to kinda show how my reads are a jumble rn and I don't have a full fledged scumread cos I really mostly look for town and y'all haven't really even been that towny lmao, I read mostly on tone and I havent seen major towntells except from Jackson D1

I'm going to do a proper analysis and reread and out actual (hopefully) reads that make more sense to myself and you guys but right now I'm probably mostly feeling an Orc vote cos it makes the most sense to me - just cos I worry that it might be wrong and he could be town is not scummy btw James it actually just shows my normal towny Super colours

This response was a bit blown out of proportion. I didn't say you'd look scummy, just that it wouldn't look good for you, I don't think an explanation this size was needed at all.

I came into this game and I will go into all future games, treating everyone as if they're on the same level of ability, not including experience.

I'm still completely willing to hammer Orctin I just don't want Orctin fake pressured with easy questions, only for (potential)Scum-Zyla to feign like they did a good argument and to then town read Orctin.

I think my reasoning for Nulling you makes complete sense. I don't scum read you but in the case Orctin flipped red, and you backing off of the Orc vote for "generally when it's a whole town consensus it makes me feel icky". An Icky Feeling. Not particularly valid.

Additionally, not to ruin any spoilers, me and you are not Masons, I have no proof you are town, you saying how differently you'd play if you were scum rubs me the wrong way.

I also kind of wanted Orctin to respond somehow to the weird Power Role claim post thing I did in 866 cause at least if he didn't decide to claim a role we could have got something from that.

[JamesTheNames]

I find it weird that you said it'd look bad for me if Orc flips red and now you're saying it'd look bad if he flips town! James!!! get your act together!!!! what is it!!! do I just always look bad to you?? huh???

rude.

ok i'll stop being a muppet and ISO some peeps and get better reads cos otherwise I'm gonna just look like a saggy town mess and everyone will scumread me for it

Reads change, I disliked 836 for different reasons after different read overs. Unless if you're trying to encourage never to reread posts.

[JamesTheNames]

FWIW I don't like any of 871, 875, 877, 880. Sure I'm new to this site, from my perspective Self-Meta isn't indicative of anything, but is this not a bit overdone here? Kind of convenient for somebody you know to write a big list of what you do as scum for you to try your best not to do from this point?
Who knows? Maybe I'm just reading too far into it.

[JamesTheNames]

FWIW I don't like any of 871, 875, 877, 880. Sure I'm new to this site, from my perspective Self-Meta isn't indicative of anything, but is this not a bit overdone here? Kind of convenient for somebody you know to write a big list of what you do as scum for you to try your best not to do from this point?
Who knows? Maybe I'm just reading too far into it.

This is added to the Null Super Justification List.

[Super]

lol ok

i think james is town

[Super]

I was going to do analysis tonight but I'm tired and just want to chill a bit, I'll reread tomorrow and do my ISOs then

[unwnd]

I've noted pairings for yall, so when i flip town i suggest you look harder at those pairs cause next day you cant afford to miss eliminate

From what I gather your argument is this--

My slot(?) comes in and townreads Catboi, which is disingenuous. This is a setup on my part to seemingly erase prior suspicion you had. OK. I looked back at your own posts towards JV and it never goes beyond a guesstimate of behavior. There's just not a lot of bite to it. This is the type of shit I was scumreading you for earlier. If you were just indignant town who feels the game is slipping into a state that can't recover, why are you letting it? I'm pretty sure catboi doesn't entirely trust me and that Super would probably flop if you made something convincing enough. Pairing us two together in that sense means nothing if we're still mostly unscathed. It all just seems so..passionless, and I don't know how else to describe it.

[unwnd]

I'd want to hear what you think you're seeing, because despite your own hesitance I still have a lingering sr on Dum who was Super's slot, which I believe you shut down for unknown reasons

okay, what's your read on me? Dum Dum is gone now, up up into the heavens - Super is here and would love for you to talk to her because then you'd know she is town and your fears will be gone! huzzah!

but no seriously, why even bring this up? Catboi has some pretty strong meta on me and out of anyone here can read me the best, it's interesting that you're trying to instill fear into him

I may have my own reservations about things and to play diplomatic around the situation is more favorable to me. Suffice to say that I'm aware of catboi's own competency and my read on him for now is one of comfort instead of resolution. Catboi seems to be testifying for you regardless and I'm pretty bad at reading player behavior like yourself. I just get sucked into the emotion and lose focus lol

[Super]

I'd want to hear what you think you're seeing, because despite your own hesitance I still have a lingering sr on Dum who was Super's slot, which I believe you shut down for unknown reasons

okay, what's your read on me? Dum Dum is gone now, up up into the heavens - Super is here and would love for you to talk to her because then you'd know she is town and your fears will be gone! huzzah!

but no seriously, why even bring this up? Catboi has some pretty strong meta on me and out of anyone here can read me the best, it's interesting that you're trying to instill fear into him

I may have my own reservations about things and to play diplomatic around the situation is more favorable to me. Suffice to say that I'm aware of catboi's own competency and my read on him for now is one of comfort instead of resolution. Catboi seems to be testifying for you regardless and I'm pretty bad at reading player behavior like yourself. I just get sucked into the emotion and lose focus lol

haha that's totally fair enough

[Zyla]

I don't understand how you could eliminate a town read just because its a general consensus. If you're TOWN and you are convinced or believe STRONGLY that somebody is town, why would you eliminate them? It makes no sense. You should try and avoid a mis-elimination and to get one of your scum reads eliminated.

-snip-

Yea no.

When he posted it there were still roughly 2 days, so the timing made no sense for one. Also if you are 90% sure that someone is town, which of the following do you think would be best:
1) Try to pressure someone else and get someone you aren't 90% certain is town hammered.
2) No Elimination
3) Hammer the town where in your eyes has a- I'll write it in English instead of the Arabic symbols- has a NINETY PERCENT chance to turn town.

You may notice I did it in the most logical order, they aren't random, its best to worst. From town eyes, if you genuinely think somebody has a 90% chance of being town, for you, it is wiser to not hammer anybody than to hammer the town read. 2 in 7 vs 2 in 8. From your eyes you are basically sure someone is town, why wouldn't you want to go into day 2 with 6 town 2 scum, and knowing with good odds (in your eyes) who is also town.

I also find it bizarre that you picked this one thing over everything else you could have picked up on.

To clarify, what I was meaning to reply to is the portion I have quoted now, and I'm not replying to Orctin's case, but this type of situation in general. I've seen a lot of people agree that no-elims are bad, and they've even had data to back it up. But the thing is, if enough other people thought they were scum to give you the chance to hammer them, what's to stop those same players from eliminating them the next day? Then you're guaranteed to have lost a town player from the Night killing, and yet you're back at the same place. (Also, if everyone thinks they're scum but you, sometimes it's good to take another look at your reads)

snip

hi, thanks for liking my personality
can you explain these reads for me a little bit - why do you see Navi and Unwnd as town?
why was catboi looking suspicious? did you have any reads on his previous slot Jackson?
you think scum would outwardly claim it in the first page? (I haven't actually seen this post by James I might go look)

Navi just in general seemed to have a pro-town mindset, and had good posts overall
Unwnd I had good vibes from as HEM, so most of it is on the slot more than Unwnd
As far as catboi, the suspicion was mostly on Jackson, catboi is seeming more town to me
Honestly I might've misread it the first time around, but the

way

she said she was scum was scummier the act itself to me. (Either way, even as a joke it seems like anti-town behavior, if not scummy)

Vanilla Townie

I fought for last few days answer everyone interrogations and question, explained my positioned - pointed out that the Night 1 killing of Johnny didn't fit with me as scum as i was after Micc/Johnny for most all of Day 1. Seems no matter my response it just gets twisted to mean something else instead of what i meant. I've noting the sudden flipping of voting from others who when a player gets swapped in, suddenly starts voting elsewhere instead of sticking with their reads, yes question me cause my reads are up to their liking.

I've tried to defend myself best i can, and have gotten nowhere. I've noted pairings for yall, so when i flip town i suggest you look harder at those pairs cause next day you cant afford to miss eliminate.

If you are town, we can look back at the things you've said under a different light. But I'm not interested in your scum-pairings atm since you didn't answer my question
Who are your top 2 town reads?

[catboi]

actually, Catboi (Gira bb), why haven't you been more paranoid of me? I have had you pocketed as mafia multiple games and for some reason maybe I'd see you being more hesitant on reading me since I've burned you so many times. or is it the fact you had Dum to read beforehand and that has initially helped your read on me?

I'm only saying this because I'd almost expect you to be slightly more sus of me whereas it feels like you just *know* I'm town here and it's nice and all for me, but I still gotta question the certainty (I'm pretty sure you're town but I'm never 100%)

You overrate the extent to which you had me fooled in most of those games (cult game yes, other times I had an early suspicion that didn't get followed through on). I don't have that same methodology here with your replace in, though.

That said, if you want me to suspect you, posts like this are a great place to start because it's a scummy sounding one.

[Zyla]

Ok, so, most of these are gut reads because I am definitely going to have to re-read this thread tomorrow, but

Nav and Unwnd I feel pretty confident as town
Super has seemed town pretty far, but tbh, I may just like her personality
catboi's slot was looking a bit suspicious, but is being redeemed slowly
James I'm really unsure about, and the fact that their slot claimed scum in the first

few

page

(s)

is not helping.

Misremembered that bit, whoops

Orctin had been null-scum for a while, but the recent posts make me feel that it's better safe than sorry

So, VOTE: Orctin

E-1

I like to ask a question with votes, especially important ones, so
Who are your top 2 town reads right now?

So, lets summarise these reads shall we?

Nav - Town
Unwnd - Town
Super - Town
Catboi - Null
James -

Null-Scum

Orctin - Scum-Lean

for most of the game, now Scum

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Done

3 Town Reads
2 Null Reads
1 Scum LEAN

Personally, I find this strange, probably due to no reasonings, but regardless.
Considering the one thing you decided to comment on was basically a defence of Orctin, along with him as a "Null-Scum" read, seriously strikes me as being off.
You're acting reluctant to Scum read Orctin, without even giving us any reason for bad vibes from him. You picked up something for an "unsure about" read, but not for your main scum read? How Bizarre.

Note the "had been", I almost wholeheartedly believe Orctin is Scum at this point, as for the others you mostly got it correct except you overestimated the "null" bit when it came to you.
Also, in general, I tend to have stronger town reads than scum reads, to me it just makes sense
Touched on this above, but that wasn't about

Orctin

not being scummy, it was about preferring a possible town elimination to no-elimination not being scummy

I'm not giving you options to E-1 "pressure" Orctin with easy questions to get out of suspicions. Not to mention when it is work-out-able who his town reads are.
I don't like combining a read with a slot's predecessor, but I'm pretty certain you/NinjaStore and Orctin are a scum pair.

I'm not saying that I'll think he's town once he gives his town reads, I'm saying I want to know his town reads. And the

only

time I'm going to try to "work out" someone's reads instead of getting them to tell me is if they've already been NK'd or Elim'd.

[Zyla]

This has been a long day for y'all, and most of us seem content on getting rid of Orctin, so if no one has anything left to say, it might be better to end the day now (before anyone else has a chance to replace out, lmao) and eliminate Orctin, especially since he doesn't seem like he wants to answer my question

[Cabd]

navigatorv has requested replacement....

[catboi]

Okay, this game is cursed

[catboi]

please just hammer

[unwnd]

Yeah alright whatever

VOTE: Orctin