Open 785: Secrets of the Anuket Topaz [Game over!]

[RCEnigma]

With point 2.) You were trying to get that across in game but like. You held both stances at one point and neither of them are really attention grabbing because neither is more likely than the other. Going into day 1 it was agreed bussing was a negative utility play for scum and they busses anyway when they had every opportunity to just...not.

[RCEnigma]

Like worst case for scum is Mohab/Mae votes snow and they go down day 2 for it but with 0 confirmed going into the day. I wouldn't even have blamed them for a survivalistic vote there.

I'd be a hypocrite because I literally voted myself over having to Lynch ydrasse but it's not super scummy to put yourself first day 1.

[Menalque]

Ehh I think I view elimming lurk prone slots as policy lynching. Winning or losing when that's the scum makeup is underwhelming either way, makes me just....not want to play in the first place.

Maybe it is a bit underwhelming but like... it’s still right a lot of the time? It was right here. Like yes, I’d much rather every slot play the game hard and figure out the scum in the middle of all that and that’s definitely the most satisfying way to win but like... that doesn’t happen very often, and I’d much rather be able to say “ah well, I lost, but at least you did look like town and you were working your ass off” then “oh, you were scum all along and just... didn’t post”

But yeah, I guess philosophical difference here

[Menalque]

With point 2.) You were trying to get that across in game but like. You held both stances at one point and neither of them are really attention grabbing because neither is more likely than the other. Going into day 1 it was agreed bussing was a negative utility play for scum and they busses anyway when they had every opportunity to just...not.

Like worst case for scum is Mohab/Mae votes snow and they go down day 2 for it but with 0 confirmed going into the day. I wouldn't even have blamed them for a survivalistic vote there.

I'd be a hypocrite because I literally voted myself over having to Lynch ydrasse but it's not super scummy to put yourself first day 1.

Ehhh, but like I think one is more likely than the other? I mean admittedly it was, in the end, one-on one-off but scum have to have a plan and that plan can only be one of three things: both bus, one on one off, both defend. And just because it’s not known which world we’re in at the time, one of those is more likely than the other two, and then another one is more likely of the two after that.

I don’t think bussing was as negative utility as it was made out to be because of the questions around WIFOM, but I don’t think that the bus was done optimally. But even with that said, it was still enough for S_S to dodge the guillo for 2 days.

I also disagree on the final bit? Like the worst case is that *if* scum definitely survives D1 and gets flipped D2 then I think that is strongly indicative that they were protected on D1, and so it would make a lot of sense to just look at whoever was defending them/who made a crucial switch over. And then with the confirmations on the other wagon, I think town has a much easier game than we actually did.

[RCEnigma]

That's fair, I don't think you're wrong.

Pedit:

It still would have been one on one off. Mohab had the chance to hammer multiple times. This is honestly what kept my vote on Snowblaze.

If it played out like that they could have easily played towards tying you and Mohab together and you resisting would have just looked like distancing. So there were better plays, which is why I couldn't really rule out one or the other.

Scum already showed they were willing to play the sub optimal path by choice. With that in mind I can't say they definitely didn't double buss.

[Chemist1422]

gg, sorry for the subout

[the worst]

great job ducky! obviously other people were important too but that was a pretty great replace-in, always great to have you!

thank you so much! ^^
this was a really fun game. i don't think we've spoken about it yet, but i'm a huge fan of the "anuket topaz version" of this setup.

thanks! i saw you talking a little bit about it i think

yeah, i really like escapes as a mechanic but it's really weird to actually make a setup mechanic because if you go the original mith route or the way jingle did it then one bad scum member can take down their entire team, and too far in the other direction and you get something like perpetual mylo where it kind of drifts pretty far from the original intent

i think anuket topaz strikes a pretty good balance, and i'm really happy with how this run went.

it's hard for me to conceptualise the exact EV but I feel very similarly - the technical EV of mith's setup or IEP is probably quite close to 50%, but like you said just eliminating non-towny players who have a weaker scumgame should dramatically outperform the EV.

confirming 5 townies is still very damaging on paper, but it's a much more redeemable shift in the gamestate than Just Losing. I agree this run was a fantastic example of how scum can play around this setback.



(actually I don't even think Mohab is all that weak as scum, this was just a very towntelling playerlist. Also I really hope I get a chance to play with Maemuki at some point. she brought an awesome energy to her rep-in)

[Menalque]

I’m sad mae didn’t get a chance to actually play after seeing her posts in the scum pt

[the worst]

oh god same

[Menalque]

I’m so sad that you correctly realised I was trolling endgame so quickly

[the worst]

does this mean.....
I can finally read you correctly and I'll never incorrectly call you scum again?!?

...naaaah :3

[Menalque]

I’m always obvtown ducky, just remember that and you’ll never go wrong on me!

[the worst]

*slowly chews nail*

[Isis]