FGO: Mafia in the Lostbelt - 2 Game Over

[Servant Lancer]

VOTE: moon cancer

still a scum slot

[Servant Archer]

I logged on last night to do my updated read list but we were thread locked. Anyways

----------Town Read----------

Caster

- I am pretty convinced that caster is town.
Linking me and Berserker makes little since to have come from the scum team now that Berserker has been confirmed town. And they spent a lot of time pushing me to explain why I was pushing for Berserker to get the master, so all she really accomplished was me putting more effort into detailing why Berserker was a good choice.

Plus their reasoning to be suspicious of my and berserker were pretty detailed (even thought she was wrong, I see how she could genuinely believe what she was claiming to believe.

Spoiler: @Caster

I did not get a chance to point this out before, but I found it humorous that you believed Berserker was "claiming that he’s the only suitable candidate" in post 50 -- when he was actually calling you scum in that post lmao - see post 161 - and you just misunderstood

----------Town Lean----------

Lancer

- I like the look of 16 and 25. They seem very genuine to me.
57 advocates for us to focus on hitting a town read, as opposed to a mech target for master. This is the opposite of the argument needed to elect either of Assassin or Saber, and it is coming pretty early, when they were both still options.
Later on, he openly opposes both Saber (216) and Assassin (249), and is on board with Berserker by 249

Alter Ego

- I got a gut town read on them pretty early, and then not much happened to really change that. Overall, the way they considered each of Assassin, Saber, and Berserker felt like they were weighing each option, and not like they had a predetermined choice in mind. I also liked 119. It is not something that I think that scum would post. They undercut me when I was DEFENDING them lmao

Beast

I liked 86->91 coming from them. Like, they were trying to drag more info out of me that could both help them sort Saber and help them sort me/understand my thinking.
577 felt like a genuine response to my 575
I did feel like they were being pretty confrontational in the way they were dealing with people, but in ways that are not going to make other people think the other person might be scum.[

Shielder

gets to honorarily go here based on Beast's claim. Should never be in consideration for elimination before a Beast flip]

Rider

- They have not been saying much --
I did find their reasoning for supporting Berserker interesting.

In 495 "Also, Archer seems to really want the Berserker wagon, and I really like the Archer slot, so I wouldn't mind the Berserker wagon going through."

This does not seem like the reason that scum would present?? Like, why pitch it as town reading me instead of as townreading the person who is going to become town leader?

They also moved up a bit following 855

----------Null----------

Assassin

- I am not sure how I feel here. Their campaign for master, and the progression on mech claims rubbed me the wrong way, but outside of their campaign, I have found them aggressively null

Avenger

I honestly cannot figure out what to take of the miller claim. They also join the Berserker campaign pretty early, when Saber was still in the lead.
There is not really anything in his iso that screams scum to me, but the iso is also pretty sparse.

----------Scum----------

Moon Cancer

They just are not giving anything to work with. This is the exact type of iso that would make me want to do a meta check to see if they normally play this way, but that is not an option here :/

Saber

Saber's campaign for the master feels like the exact campaign a cautious scum team would make. Like I can imagine the planning conversation

Spoiler:

"How can we get the master"
"Well, one of us can claim we have an insanely powerful NP"

"But wait, what happens if I don't get chosen, won't they expect me to do something amazing later in the game?"

"I know, just say that it is only good in the early game"
"So okay, how does this sound:

My NP is one of the strongest in the game, if used correctly and early. It's totally weaksauce if used late and arguably detrimental.

"ahh, that's perfect."

I also stand by what I said in 213 -- Saber's worry there makes no sense coming from town. When would you ever be worried about this? ---I don't think town ever is, but it feels similar to what I bolded in the hypothetical conversation. Also, not a fan of their "town read everyone" read list

Foreigner

- I have talked about this slot before. But I still don't like the way the danced around the master choice. Like none of it felt to me like someone who was genuinely trying to figure out who would be the best choice.
Then - I don't like that 801 seems designed to make us question Berserker's judgement

[Servant Archer]

So uhh. When I typed that, I meant to go back and add post tags on all of that, but forgot when I just posted it :/

Spoiler: again with post tags, but broken spoiler tags this time

----------Town Read----------

Caster

- I am pretty convinced that caster is town.
Linking me and Berserker makes little since to have come from the scum team now that Berserker has been confirmed town. And they spent a lot of time pushing me to explain why I was pushing for Berserker to get the master, so all she really accomplished was me putting more effort into detailing why Berserker was a good choice.

Plus their reasoning to be suspicious of my and berserker were pretty detailed (even thought she was wrong, I see how she could genuinely believe what she was claiming to believe.

[spoil//er=@Caster]I did not get a chance to point this out before, but I found it humorous that you believed Berserker was "claiming that he’s the only suitable candidate" in post 50 -- when he was actually calling you scum in that post lmao - see post 161 - and you just misunderstood[/spoil//er]

----------Town Lean----------

Lancer

- I like the look of 16 and 25. They seem very genuine to me.
57 advocates for us to focus on hitting a town read, as opposed to a mech target for master. This is the opposite of the argument needed to elect either of Assassin or Saber, and it is coming pretty early, when they were both still options.
Later on, he openly opposes both Saber (216) and Assassin (249), and is on board with Berserker by 249

Alter Ego

- I got a gut town read on them pretty early, and then not much happened to really change that. Overall, the way they considered each of Assassin, Saber, and Berserker felt like they were weighing each option, and not like they had a predetermined choice in mind. I also liked 119. It is not something that I think that scum would post. They undercut me when I was DEFENDING them lmao

Beast

I liked 86->91 coming from them. Like, they were trying to drag more info out of me that could both help them sort Saber and help them sort me/understand my thinking.
577 felt like a genuine response to my 575
I did feel like they were being pretty confrontational in the way they were dealing with people, but in ways that are not going to make other people think the other person might be scum.[

Shielder

gets to honorarily go here based on Beast's claim. Should never be in consideration for elimination before a Beast flip]

Rider

- They have not been saying much --
I did find their reasoning for supporting Berserker interesting.

In 495 "Also, Archer seems to really want the Berserker wagon, and I really like the Archer slot, so I wouldn't mind the Berserker wagon going through."

This does not seem like the reason that scum would present?? Like, why pitch it as town reading me instead of as townreading the person who is going to become town leader?

They also moved up a bit following 855

----------Null----------

Assassin

- I am not sure how I feel here. Their campaign for master, and the progression on mech claims rubbed me the wrong way, but outside of their campaign, I have found them aggressively null

Avenger

I honestly cannot figure out what to take of the miller claim. They also join the Berserker campaign pretty early, when Saber was still in the lead.
There is not really anything in his iso that screams scum to me, but the iso is also pretty sparse.

----------Scum----------

Moon Cancer

They just are not giving anything to work with. This is the exact type of iso that would make me want to do a meta check to see if they normally play this way, but that is not an option here :/

Saber

Saber's campaign for the master feels like the exact campaign a cautious scum team would make. Like I can imagine the planning conversation

[spoil//er=]"How can we get the master"
"Well, one of us can claim we have an insanely powerful NP"

"But wait, what happens if I don't get chosen, won't they expect me to do something amazing later in the game?"

"I know, just say that it is only good in the early game"
"So okay, how does this sound:

My NP is one of the strongest in the game, if used correctly and early. It's totally weaksauce if used late and arguably detrimental.

"ahh, that's perfect."[/spoil//er]
I also stand by what I said in 213 -- Saber's worry there makes no sense coming from town. When would you ever be worried about this? ---I don't think town ever is, but it feels similar to what I bolded in the hypothetical conversation. Also, not a fan of their "town read everyone" read list

Foreigner

- I have talked about this slot before. But I still don't like the way the danced around the master choice. Like none of it felt to me like someone who was genuinely trying to figure out who would be the best choice.
Then - I don't like that 801 seems designed to make us question Berserker's judgement

[Servant Assassin]

It has been a rather busy weekend. I plan to devote a good chuck of time to this game tonight.

[Servant Ruler]

Ok

So

Hi.

I did a quick mod Iso, so yeah.

Dedicating time to this game but I wouldn't expect to much for 24ish hours due to the type of weekend.

A recap would be nice

[Servant Saber]

@Archer, I think it's time to outright claim my NP given I won't likely be using it and it might explain the concern you had.

My NP is to shut down excessive stupid and pointless T v Ts by limiting the posting of one of the parties involved. Using it early ensures we get good focus and communication between town. It prevents scum from starting drama and trying to pin us against ourselves. Fighting amongst ourselves is how town lose games. I've seen it happen too many times over the years.

By the time my bar fills up, it's useless as the gamethrow would have already happened.

I felt it was my duty to act the way I did. Getting a cohesive, unassailable block is more important than 1 clear ever will be. I have a go to game for this proposition but proving it would hint at my identity.

[Servant Alter Ego]

...That was supposed to be the incredibly strong thing you wanted to be able to use?

[Servant Saber]

...That was supposed to be the incredibly strong thing you wanted to be able to use?

Yes. I'd prove how effective language control can be but citing the best example would be cheating so instead I'll point you to almost every stump game and why they turn toxic.

Also look at the past iteration of this game, it was won based on impenetrable townblock not off 1 clear.

[Servant Berserker]

I’d argue this game is already heading that direction.

[Servant Saber]

I’d argue this game is already heading that direction.

That's why I didn't fight much when the trend was heading towards you versus when asassin wanted it solely bc mechanics. At first, I suspected it was a scum push but the people pushing you (by and large) weren't that scummy. Scum could have resigned to a town master and wanted me as a miselimination or just hated my power. The latter is less true with lurkbaity scum.

[Servant Saber]

My goal was to find out why you were being the master instead of fighting you. I haven't answered that yet and that's partially because I don't know if and how my forced crumbs were perceived and it's hard to ask people what they see is what I meant to convey without telling them what I meant to convey.

[Servant Alter Ego]

You really thought that was better than a guaranteed cop shot?

[Servant Rider]

VOTE: Moon Cancer

[Servant Rider]

Then - I don't like that 801 seems designed to make us question Berserker's judgement

I think this is probably more frustration on Foreigner's part and related to him suspecting Caster this game (see 627, 677, 798).

[Servant Archer]

@Archer, I think it's time to outright claim my NP given I won't likely be using it and it might explain the concern you had.

My NP is to shut down excessive stupid and pointless T v Ts by limiting the posting of one of the parties involved. Using it early ensures we get good focus and communication between town. It prevents scum from starting drama and trying to pin us against ourselves. Fighting amongst ourselves is how town lose games. I've seen it happen too many times over the years.

By the time my bar fills up, it's useless as the gamethrow would have already happened.

I felt it was my duty to act the way I did. Getting a cohesive, unassailable block is more important than 1 clear ever will be. I have a go to game for this proposition but proving it would hint at my identity.

...

wow. I am very glad that we did not elect you based on your mech promise then. Also, this feels like a scum ability

Will think on it over night

[Servant Alter Ego]

Town had some fairly scummy sounding abilities in the first game. What's more bothersome is the disconnect of how Saber was selling it versus the underwhelming description of what it actually is.

[Servant Archer]

Dedicating time to this game but I wouldn't expect to much for 24ish hours due to the type of weekend.

A recap would be nice

Claims:

Avenger: I am claiming Miller
Assassin: Claims their NP a guaranteed cop-shot that can even go through the miller
Saber: Claimed their NP was one of the strongest in the game, but just recently claimed the ability would limit the posting of 1 player
Beast: Claimed they are informed that Shielder is town

Berserker/Mod Confirmed: They are immune to investigations, but I don't think that matters much, now that they are confirmed town anyways

And then here are a few detailed read lists, with post links and stuff that might help:

Here is Berserkers, it came towards the end of the Day 0, after it was clear Berserker was getting the master: 504
Here is mine: 901 / 902
Rider: 855
Previous Ruler: 834 cases town reads + 890 cases scum reads

[Servant Archer]

Town had some fairly scummy sounding abilities in the first game. What's more bothersome is the disconnect of how Saber was selling it versus the underwhelming description of what it actually is.

I meant I would be thinking on both of those aspects

[Servant Beast]

Then - I don't like that 801 seems designed to make us question Berserker's judgement

I think this is probably more frustration on Foreigner's part and related to him suspecting Caster this game (see 627, 677, 798).

You don't need to defend a slot to push another slot, you know.

[Servant Rider]

Your comment makes no sense in relation to mine.

[Servant Beast]

You're arguing that foreigner's comment was frustration related and not scum related while voting moon cancer.

[Servant Rider]

No. Archer said Foreigner's comment was designed to make us question Berserker's judgement. I disagree and believe he made that comment because he may have been frustrated with the way his scumread (Caster) was being treated by Berserker. 801 was also a direct response to my 799, which was me questioning his 798. Nowhere did I mention whether I believed that comment was town- or scum-motivated.

I also happen to be voting Moon Cancer. The two are unrelated.

If I really wanted to defend someone, I would actually

defend

them.

[Servant Ruler]

Sitting at page 19

Hipshooting-

Alter, foreigner, Lancer

[Servant Ruler]

I got a gut town read on them pretty early, and then not much happened to really change that. Overall, the way they considered each of Assassin, Saber, and Berserker felt like they were weighing each option, and not like they had a predetermined choice in mind. I also liked 119. It is not something that I think that scum would post. They undercut me when I was DEFENDING them lmao

Its curious that you're town reading them off this.

I have a gut scum read off them and for the similar reasons you gut townread them.

I'm not a fan of "scum never do this" I could see it as a paranoia WK from them but then I feel like they are planning out on who to push.

The considerations on the slots you mentioned dont mean a whole lot to me. I felt like they aren't really scum hunting and sitting there commenting about the game without reallt participating

[Servant Ruler]

Also pending certain things, i think sabers claim is believable enough