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[Something_Smart]

No, the 2-shot is dead with either Distance or Cyrus, or scum!you or scum!marci have it - both of which are impossible in scum!S_S pov, so scum!S_S knows 2-shot AD is dead and 1-shot AD is used by the time he claims Watcher, meaning it could easily have been Gamma that had Watcher and tried to buy JK for 300

But Gamma claimed GF on D3, before scum could have known the AD was dead.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

It was Gamma and it looked like he was maybe hoping town spends 500 on it, because we know he claimed that.

Right okay, if Gamma himself spent 499 on GF, then we didn't swap roles. It follows that I was the one who got watcher for 500, and therefore I didn't get hitman for 301, and therefore I couldn't have killed last night because I was roleblocked.

Does that all make sense??

But no one has claimed 2 shot hitman. I know we don’t have it. What does you spending 500 on have to do with Gamma spending 499 on GF?

It looks to me like Gamma wanted us to doubt that Distance had cop.

Unfortunately we have no idea who Imaginality rb’d last night because Kyouku claimed 1 shot hitman. so he could have rb’d anyone.

Marci claimed that Imaginality told her in their hood that he was going to roleblock S_S last night. unless Marci is scum, S_S was roleblocked last night. Why does scum!Marci tell us who was roleblocked? scum!Marci can just lie and say she was not neighborized, and we all can go along thinking maybe Imaginality chose not to use it, or we can all think he must have neighborized our top SR and our SR is lying about not being neighborized, etc.

I don’t think Marci is lying but unless Imaginality changed his mind, SS would have to have himan right? Or Gamma?

[marcistar]

soo like im having doubts again aa

lmk if you want to no elim

nahh i think its more beneficial to vote here

Marci, you too please. How much did you spend on gravedigger.

225 on gravedigger

[ssbm_Kyouko]

But no one has claimed 2 shot hitman. I know we don’t have it. What does you spending 500 on have to do with Gamma spending 499 on GF?

Well, it was established that since I was RB'd last night, the only way I can be scum is if I swapped claims with Gamma so I would have enough to afford hitman. So that would require Gamma actually buying the watcher and me actually buying the godfather, so I would have 301 left. If you don't think that's what happened, then I can't be scum.

Imaginality said he would do that because he thought you were the only one who didn’t have hitman but then Kyouku claimed it, so we don’t know for sure who he rb’d.

I am like 99% sure Imaginality never forgot I had 1-shot Hitman since D1. He doesn't seem the type to forget something like that, especially when his role is countered by Hitman. I think he even mentioned he PMed the mod specifically to ask if RB could stop hitman, mod confirmed it could not, and he expressed it would do no good to RB me, because it can't clear me.

If he had somehow forgotten, he wouldn't have RBed me after I claimed it for sure, because RB can't clear someone who can afford to have bought hitman. Not only did I buy it D1 publicly, but scum!me would have had 374 shekels to spend on 2-Shot Hitman if I'd already used my 1-shot

[Smoke and Mirrors]

soo like im having doubts again aa

lmk if you want to no elim

nahh i think its more beneficial to vote here

Marci, you too please. How much did you spend on gravedigger.

225 on gravedigger

Did you buy anything else? Imaginality bought rb and ? All of this mech stuff is so confusing.

[marcistar]

soo like im having doubts again aa

lmk if you want to no elim

nahh i think its more beneficial to vote here

Marci, you too please. How much did you spend on gravedigger.

225 on gravedigger

Did you buy anything else? Imaginality bought rb and ? All of this mech stuff is so confusing.

i attempted 275 for 2 shot hitman

imaginality got a neighborizer thingy for 90 i think

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I’m just having real trouble buying that Gamma kills Mastina knowing town!SS still has another watcher. I don’t see how Gamma wouldn’t expect to be caught?

Mastina claimed tracker and sr both SS and Gamma.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

On N3 we did not know for sure the cop was dead, I don't think?

Scum probably had enough info by N3 to know the Cop was dead, scum!you would for sure because Watcher was one of the only unclaimed bids around then, so if you or Gamma bought it, your team had enough pieces to deduce that only Flea, Distance, or CB could have won cop given town!S&M claiemd to have failed to win it for 365 in 1060 on D3. So your scumteam knows S&M is town and is porbably telling truth and that Cop sold for at least 366, so any town that had more than 134 to bid with could not have Cop.

Maybe mastina could have had it from your scum pov, but I think she outright claimed that she tried and failed to get Cop *checks notes* in 487 on D2.

So scum!you does know cop is dead by N3. I think town!you also has enough info to know they are dead by N3.

[marcistar]

I’m just having real trouble buying that Gamma kills Mastina knowing town!SS still has another watcher. I don’t see how Gamma wouldn’t expect to be caught?

Mastina claimed tracker and sr both SS and Gamma.

the bid for 2 shot hitman wasnt concealed, so i think gamma was expecting to be caught by the numbers so maybe they werent worried about being caught out in the kill..?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like it’s scum suicide to kill Mastina with a town watcher who likely catches you.

This is just a suicide if you're Gamma's partner, and can't be avoided as otherwise town!S_S catches you instead of Gamma if you kill.

If S_S is Gamma's partner though, probably S_S is actually the one that killed mastina, using one of his 2 shots of Hitman, in case Imaginality chose to use his RB early, before 1 scum was all that was left.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I’m just having real trouble buying that Gamma kills Mastina knowing town!SS still has another watcher. I don’t see how Gamma wouldn’t expect to be caught?

Mastina claimed tracker and sr both SS and Gamma.

the bid for 2 shot hitman wasnt concealed, so i think gamma was expecting to be caught by the numbers so maybe they werent worried about being caught out in the kill..?

Nothing was concealed though, because scum wanted us to see what it sold for. If it was concealed, we might be thinking it sold for 300 which points to S_S who bought Watcher, right? Scum wanted us to know it sold for 301, because they wanted us to think Gamma bought it.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Now that we've seen Gamma flip, it means Gamma wanted us to think he bought Hitman. Why would Gamma want that? Because his partner is the one that really bought it, and he wanted his partner to be mech-cleared by getting RBed by Imaginality

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Let's also not forget that despite most people TRing Misty for tone, her actions up to and including the replace make sense as a disgruntled Gamma partner

[marcistar]

so u think they swapped?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Because he thought I would WIFOM out of it?
Because he thought he could win the 1v1?
Because he was counting on his partner to carry?
Because he just didn't think that far ahead? Hell if I know. It's not my job to justify the actions of dead scum. It's my job to explain why my actions don't make sense from scum, because they don't.

town!watcher never WIFOMs out of watching the publicly outed investigative. Even the weakest scum player knows this.
If he thought he could win the 1v1 he would have tried to get you limmed instead of me
I think he was counting on a fake mechanical clear to carry you through while S&M and I TvTed
In the first iteration of this setup run by regfan, there is a post in the scum PT with scum!Gamma saying he has a long-term plan in mind (he gets limmed really early, but then town throws and just stops bidding on stuff, it was a scum slaughter)

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I’m just having real trouble buying that Gamma kills Mastina knowing town!SS still has another watcher. I don’t see how Gamma wouldn’t expect to be caught?

Mastina claimed tracker and sr both SS and Gamma.

the bid for 2 shot hitman wasnt concealed, so i think gamma was expecting to be caught by the numbers so maybe they werent worried about being caught out in the kill..?

Nothing was concealed though, because scum wanted us to see what it sold for. If it was concealed, we might be thinking it sold for 300 which points to S_S who bought Watcher, right? Scum wanted us to know it sold for 301, because they wanted us to think Gamma bought it.

Why was cop redacted? I think it was the only one that was.

[Something_Smart]

JK was also redacted.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yes, I think they swapped, they had the info on dead ADs to know it was safe to swap by the time they made claims, even if they didn't use Watcher to check if one of them got AD'ed. It also makes the attempt to kill you make a lot more sense. If they thought you would holster the GD until the next scum was limmed, you would have been able to outright guilty them. If they waited until one of them was limmed to try to shoot you, another protective role might have come up for auction, and been more likely to protect you on a night where you would be digging dead scum. Preemptively killing you makes sense if they wanted to swap claims in the long run.

[Something_Smart]

What is the reason for us to swap rather than just hiding watcher and claiming it was for a different amount? Or hiding GF, or anything else?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Cop was redacted, I think because they wanted us to think Kitty bought it for over 500 before dying. Jailkeeper was redacted because Mastina claimed she had 201-299 dogecoin left, and they thought they could win it for 300. They did not want to show 300 winning because if mastina was telling the truth about having 299, as they would assume she was, it would give away that scum bought JK, because no town had 300 left at that point

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I WILL say that this is dismal play from Something_Smart regardless of his alignment tho--if he's scum he should know this is a terrible-ass claim that borderline scumfirms him;
If he's town then out-bidding me on the Watcher when I fucking knew how to use it is basically criminal especially with the holster claimed on N2 when we were down one scum and the Ninja was not in play yet and the claimed watch on Smoke & Mirrors is, while plausible to town, also the watch most convenient for scum to claim.

In either case it's bad from him, and I could make an argument for either--but overall I'm instantly putting him in the suspect pool. He may still be town yet, it could be Gamma+VFP, but VFP+S_S could be it as well.

I'm not really ready to make the call on who VFP is scum with, but the play today is to eliminate VFP and then coordinate the best usage of actions, including imaginality's roleblock and Something_Smart's second watch shot.

(I will say tho that overall balance of probability I thing S_S scum > Gamma scum here. Something_Smart's negligence-if-town and the convenience of ease in being scum, not to mention having defended VFP, mean that overall I would favor him as scum over Gamma right now. Something_Smart's play here as a mechanical player is bad regardless of his alignment, but it is much much much worse as town than as scum; if he is scum, he could have reasons to believe claiming may make him town, he could believe that claiming gives him more of an edge than faking having no role, he could believe that the claim is the lesser of two evils, he could make the claim and hope nobody figures out why it's so egregious, etc.; there's half a dozen reasons why he could believe that he needs to make the claim as scum, even though it is a very bad claim. But if he is town, the negligence is borderline criminal in his usage of the role. So while it could come from Something_Smart as either alignment and you can argue it either way, there's more in favor of him making the bad claim as scum than making that bad of choices as town in my opinion. Ultimately, it doesn't matter tho; we're eliminating VFP today, not Something_Smart, so whether S_S is scum is left to tomorrow, not today.)

[marcistar]

yeah

[Something_Smart]

But why

wasn't

watcher redacted? If I was planning a swap with Gamma, surely that flexibility would be important?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What is the reason for us to swap rather than just hiding watcher and claiming it was for a different amount? Or hiding GF, or anything else?

If you hide GF or Hitman, we can't see 499+301=800 and then it is unclear who won Hitman. This way, it looks like Gamma won Hitman.

If you hide Watcher, it looks like scum are not interested in knowing how much Watcher sold for. If scum knows how much Watcher sold for, they can try to POE which townie could afford it and shoot for that townie. Hiding Watcher indicates that scum bought watcher, because they are not interested in POEing the identity of the Watcher.

Hiding JK was done because Gamma tried to buy JK for 300, and if town saw 300 bought JK, it would have looked like the scum that bought it had already spent 500, which points to the Watcher. otherwise why wouldn't they have bid more and guaranteed they would outbid any living townies? Unfortunately for Gamma, Mastina must have placed her bid before him.

[Gypyx]

@mod, why was the final bid on cop redacted?

becaused scum asked