[MT2225] Chrono Trigger Chronicles - The Rise/Fall of Yakra

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And the fact Luke's read is so far back indicates to me Roden was searching for anything to grasp onto

[Roden]

I'm noticing a pattern that every time I get scum read, afterwards it's always scum trying to stick up for me for town points and for a potential pocket lol. Also every time I feel bad about wanting to suspect someone, it's because they were scum trying to manipulate me.

I really hate the idea of wagoning Nora just because she

isn't

tunneling people against all reason, and it's possible because she's using a hydra and has a second opinion to bounce off of that she's reeled herself back this game. But it's page 20 now and I haven't seen a single wall post or tunnel or even a pounce. The AW slot in general doesn't seem to trust me fully, but I think a paranoid Nora would've done something about that by now to let us know just how paranoid she is of me. Hell, she voted RMH but hasn't shown any progression on that at all, since right before the vote she actually agreed with RMH that Kyouko was scummy.

I think Lukewarm is scum if anyone wants to debate that with me. I think T3 and roden are scummy but I'm unwilling to look at them much at this point because their play styles are naturally scummy.

-bear nornor

Well I did want to vote luke up until 174, but now we have Noraa Roden and luke town, House off the table but tbh I skimmed him as i was focused on reading roden/nora.

I think i understand the T3 votes but i dont know yet if I agree with them. I'd rather VOTE: Guillotina right now

Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute.
"I understand where the T3 votes are coming from"
The.... 2 RVS votes?
VOTE: ssbm

Good catch.

VOTE: ssbm

Ngl. I think all of the reasons to scum read Kyoto are bad however I agree with the conclusion that Kyoto is scum. im inclined to towered t3 despite his reason being wrong because it sounds towny enough that he's picking at something super insignificant.

-Nor bear bear bear

Claiming the Kyouko is getting scum read for bad reasons but then still voting her anyway without giving any reasons of her own. This is so out of character for her and such a wild shift from my last encounter that I think I feel the same way she did when she meta'd me and saw my scum games.

[Roden]

If we get a claim I wouldn't mind hammering it even though there is time left. People can catch up at night : shrug:

Are you caught up?

No and I haven't read anything.

Oh god, you really do just play like this, huh?

If multiple people are confident on Luke being town then I think his read on T3 has merit.

What is the purpose of this post? As far as I can tell it's unrelated to any conversation thread and the last time Luke mentioned a T3 scum read was kind of far back.

I cant figure out what you're thinking here. For as much interaction as you have with quite a few people, and for as much as it looks like you're possibly trying to find scum, I was surprised to see you haven't interacted with or commented on RMH, except once in 439, where you softly defend his slot for a really bad reason. It doesn't occur to you that RMH is scum waiting out the pressure and laying low? It occurs to me that this is what's happening and it's your job to redirect the heat.

Why shouldn't he be a wagon?

Because nobody's defending him and he isn't giving us any content to work with. Like this is literally doing nothing. We got more content when I was being wagon'd and I'm town. Hell I'm fine with votes on me if that gives people stuff to say. My post isn't a soft defend because there's nothing in that post even remotely exonerating him or that could be seen as an attempt at town casing him.

I mentioned Luke's scum case on T3 because it got buried and I think it should be looked at more if people town read him. He's strong as town and I'm not the only one who thinks so, so his reads should be given a spotlight if there's a general consensus that we can trust him.

The only thing 456 correlates to is derailing the RMH wagon imo

I mean, yes. I don't think it's a helpful wagon to have atm unless we're feeling pretty good about voting out RMH. And tbh I'm just not seeing a strong case against him, nor a reason to end Day 1 early.

And the fact Luke's read is so far back indicates to me Roden was searching for anything to grasp onto

Luke's scum case is hardly the most interesting thing to happen in this thread and we both know that. No offense intended, Luke.

[Roden]

If you think I'm scum, vote me and get a wagon going. I want to see what other people think.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't think the interaction between you and Guillotina is genuine, but idk if it's both of you or just one of you. It's not guaranteed either of you are scum either even if I'm right, since I believe third party is a possibility.

What seems fake about it?

Guillo seemed ready to death tunnel you, and I wasn't vibing with your response. But I think it makes more sense that he was just super sensitive to getting scum read for the wrong reasons, not necessarily because he's actually scum but because he didn't think your reasoning was good. He claimed to be certain you were scum but backed down when questioned more on it, which made me think it was an emotional/pride thing. Basically I do think it's possible to be a fake response but for you both to be town anyway.

You weren't vibing with

my

response, but you voted

Guillotina

, even though he is the one you perceived as having a prideful reaction that could be fake, and coming from town.

So why Guillotina rather than me?

[Roden]

I don't think the interaction between you and Guillotina is genuine, but idk if it's both of you or just one of you. It's not guaranteed either of you are scum either even if I'm right, since I believe third party is a possibility.

What seems fake about it?

Guillo seemed ready to death tunnel you, and I wasn't vibing with your response. But I think it makes more sense that he was just super sensitive to getting scum read for the wrong reasons, not necessarily because he's actually scum but because he didn't think your reasoning was good. He claimed to be certain you were scum but backed down when questioned more on it, which made me think it was an emotional/pride thing. Basically I do think it's possible to be a fake response but for you both to be town anyway.

You weren't vibing with

my

response, but you voted

Guillotina

, even though he is the one you perceived as having a prideful reaction that could be fake, and coming from town.

So why Guillotina rather than me?

I don't know what you could possibly be trying to imply here other than me being scum partners with you. This is not a good response.

[Roden]

I obviously didn't know what was going on in Guillo's head. And you already had a wagon going that I didn't particularly want to join. I don't think I had particularly complex motives there.

[Gamma Emerald]

I believe third party is a possibility.

How come? I didn't see anything in the OP that hinted 3P.

I believe third party is a possibility.

how so?

Because this isn't a Normal game and I can't assume we don't have 3P. It's unlikely since I can't imagine what flavor would be used as a reason to include it, but it's not impossible AFAIK.

Why bring it up then?

[Roden]

I believe third party is a possibility.

How come? I didn't see anything in the OP that hinted 3P.

I believe third party is a possibility.

how so?

Because this isn't a Normal game and I can't assume we don't have 3P. It's unlikely since I can't imagine what flavor would be used as a reason to include it, but it's not impossible AFAIK.

Why bring it up then?

Just stating my thought process at the time. Not sure why that's being questioned since it does literally zero to aid me if I'm scum.

[Roden]

Actually what made you respond to that in particular?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm strongly inclined to trust Noraa on this.
The town: T3, House, Angel, Guillo, Roden
The scum: Lukewarm, RMH

Why is Lukewarm scum?

[Angel Warriors]

OOOOOO SPICY alright its been a while since I've been scum read this much as town.
I will try my best to prove my towniness! this is exciting actually.

-Nornornornronronrornornornonoronro

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually what made you respond to that in particular?

I don’t think it’s likely myself and my first blush response was to view the suggestion with skepticism
Thinking about it now I kinda regard it as harmless

[Angel Warriors]

So first up, I skimmed up and a couple overall things to be mentioning.

number 1, the most important. I am hard town reading guillo. why is that? I have very valid reasoning actually and guillo is still town despite him scum reading me. you may ask why is that? I am 100% known for tunneling guillo in games. I admit to that and typically that is what I do. the reason is simply. he doesnt cooperate as town and that frustrates town me. but the last game guillo was in with me, he was scum and let me tell you the difference was drastic. it was like he went from a raging bull to a proper gentleman asking you for a dance. I am telling you the difference is that STARK. guillo as town won't give two shits before slamming your head into the pavement if he dislikes your read on him. what is cooperation? what is town block? none of that exists in his eyes

but scum guillo cares SO MUCH. he will reply extremely calmly to EVERY post you make. he will tell you "no sweetheart im not scum listen to my beautiful voice you know its not me but it might be X or Y. See they look scary bad go go!" he will try so hard to get you off him and in the nicest way in the world. I caught him immediately and was like oh fuck so this is what his scum game looks like. That is why the moment I saw him get angry in this game, I was willing to say with 100% certainty that he is town. I promise that I am not wrong here. Anyone can meta guillo. His scum and town game are NIGHT AND DAY. im not even exaggerating.

number 2, VERY IMPORTANT NOTICE. Lukewarm might be scum. Im back to that read. I understand that mom doesnt agree with me but his progression on me I dont like. A little bit of meta that is not that reliable but my main reason im second guessing mom right now is that Lukewarm's reads in games are typically pretty good. From my past games with him, I believe his reads are normally almost completely accurate with his only mistakes being due to personal bias. his mistakes in reads are almost always because the person is scum reading him. But we have not SRed him in a while here so I dont see a valid reason for him to SR me here especially after just getting out of a game with a three headed hydra of me, mom and flea. We got our asses tunneled to hell and back day one as town two shot mason vig. I dont see why he would be so eager to jump on us even if only off of that.

-readingupandreplyingtoinfdividualpostsnornor

[Angel Warriors]

to clarify, it means that he is town and scum reading town that is scum reading him.
he typically doesnt misread town like that when he's town otherwise.

-nornornoron

[Angel Warriors]

If multiple people are confident on Luke being town then I think his read on T3 has merit.

I might be confbiasing currently reading up with suspicions on lukewarm. this feels super partner-y

At the risk of giving myself scum equity in case it is a red flip, I don't recommend hammering when we still have 11 days to go and we still have people trying to catch up.

what a way to actually cover all bases in one post. this post is super backtrack-y in a way that im not sure how to explain.

I'd like some engagement on why AW is town considering I have an unpopular view.

They put in the effort to meta me and readjusted their read on me because of it. I think Nora specifically could've gotten away with just death tunneling me and leaving it at that since that would cause more chaos while earning herself a stronger town read, since that's exactly what happened last time we played together when she was town. This can change depending on how the rest of the game goes of course, but I don't think AW should be a Day 1 elim.

Does she still tunnel people as scum? Or does she play more conservatively?

I hate this because it gives room to reverse his TR on us the moment its no longer popular/consensus. he knows that titus is someone thats played with me a decent amount(from her posts. she is directly metaing me) and hes asking her why which is a really easy entrance to the SR AW clubhouse.

-theangelnronor

[Angel Warriors]

My super-accurate day 1 solve is currently {Kyouko, Lukewarm, Angel}. Prove me wrong.

ummmm im not a fan of mara's reads but i dont see anything too crazy scummy currently.
im not willing to talk about the claim anymore but I did not think claiming was a smart idea.
I dont see how thats scum indicative in any way so im not going to reply because I dont want to talk about the claims currently.

-nornorbearbear

[Angel Warriors]

I don't believe they got better at reading me in a couple of months.

Who caught you on page ten in DBZ and was the only person in the game who caught you??????????? hm????????????????

not to be rude, but your scum and town game are nothing alike. like reading you is actually the easiest thing ever after DBZ.

-bearbearbear

[Angel Warriors]

I'm very hard to read.

incorrect. you are just one of those smooth scum players. that means people who dont understand that your town and scum games are night and day will not be able to catch scum you. that is why you're under the impression that you're hard to read. because people tend to scum read your town game and town read your scum game. is that right? that is exactly how my game is. I know better than anyone what it feels like.

-berabearnor

[Lukewarm]

OOOOOO SPICY alright its been a while since I've been scum read this much as town.
I will try my best to prove my towniness! this is exciting actually.

-Nornornornronronrornornornonoronro

This feels performative.

And also, not even true? Like, you described yourself as being a USR day 1 of that multiball game

Spoiler:

Quotes from the Mom+Nora+Flea hydra

what do you leave us? also what if they still scum read us? we were like USR before you TRed us

I dont even understand how I was being scummy but everyone was like CELESTIAL IS SCUMMMMMMM

These posts were made 9 days ago lol

[Angel Warriors]

this looks incredibly condemning

hahahahahhaha. alright I will take a look at this old scum game of mine. you're totally bullshitting. this isn't what my scum game looks like.

I have not tried to pocket a single person here. my reads and thought process are clean as fuck. this aint my town game and I dont believe town ever takes a look at one of my scum games and thinks its "condemning" after a SKIM.

especially since you are a fairly new player. I dont believe town do that.

I have INCREDIBLY strong scum feels on roden right now. like INCREDIBLY no joke. let me take a look through this "condemning" lmfao scum game of mine.

I will go see how *CONDEMNING* it is.

-lolijustcaughtscum

[Angel Warriors]

And also, not even true? Like, you described yourself as being a USR day 1 of that multiball game

sure but i was UTR soon after. I've been worried because of this playerlist specifically.

it doesnt look like one that will treat me kindly.

-nornonronor

[Angel Warriors]

ok I've actually just read like two posts
I CALL BULLSHIT how the fuck is that even remotely similar to this game? I actually full on do not believe roden believes that game is condemning.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

so I believe Titus' read simply because I feel like she wouldnt bother talking to us that much about her scum read on us if she were scum. like she wouldnt even bother with us. she would just convince other people and call it a day.

I dont believe rodens. my posts are night and day from that game. admittedly that game is outdated meta but it is not "condemning" in any parallel universe legitimately. Like lets say im scum, I literally still dont believe roden thought those posts were condemning. how about this. Roden you tell me what's condemning about those posts? give me specific post examples.

-bear bear

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If we get a claim I wouldn't mind hammering it even though there is time left. People can catch up at night : shrug:

Are you caught up?

No and I haven't read anything.

Oh god, you really do just play like this, huh?

If multiple people are confident on Luke being town then I think his read on T3 has merit.

What is the purpose of this post? As far as I can tell it's unrelated to any conversation thread and the last time Luke mentioned a T3 scum read was kind of far back.

I cant figure out what you're thinking here. For as much interaction as you have with quite a few people, and for as much as it looks like you're possibly trying to find scum, I was surprised to see you haven't interacted with or commented on RMH, except once in 439, where you softly defend his slot for a really bad reason. It doesn't occur to you that RMH is scum waiting out the pressure and laying low? It occurs to me that this is what's happening and it's your job to redirect the heat.

Why shouldn't he be a wagon?

Because nobody's defending him and he isn't giving us any content to work with. Like this is literally doing nothing. We got more content when I was being wagon'd and I'm town. Hell I'm fine with votes on me if that gives people stuff to say. My post isn't a soft defend because there's nothing in that post even remotely exonerating him or that could be seen as an attempt at town casing him.

I mentioned Luke's scum case on T3 because it got buried and I think it should be looked at more if people town read him. He's strong as town and I'm not the only one who thinks so, so his reads should be given a spotlight if there's a general consensus that we can trust him.

The only thing 456 correlates to is derailing the RMH wagon imo

I mean, yes. I don't think it's a helpful wagon to have atm unless we're feeling pretty good about voting out RMH. And tbh I'm just not seeing a strong case against him, nor a reason to end Day 1 early.

And the fact Luke's read is so far back indicates to me Roden was searching for anything to grasp onto

Luke's scum case is hardly the most interesting thing to happen in this thread and we both know that. No offense intended, Luke.

This is a bad reason to stop the wagon. It's not like the thread is waiting with bated breath for RMH to come and post - there's still plenty of conversation going about other avenues. We should be giving him a free pass to wait out the pressure. You're acting like his wagon is bad for the conversation but I see no indication that this is the case. If you see something that indicates otherwise, could you illustrate that? I'm having a hard time believing this is a real thought process.

You say your post isn't a

"soft defend"

, because nothing in it exonerates him or town cases him, but that is exactly why I say it's "soft" - if you were town casing him or arguing against scumcases that had been presented against him, that would be defending or hard defending, depending on the intensity of your post, in my book.

I scrolled backward from your post to find Luke's read and it didnt look like a case, but maybe the case came before. If you wanted people to see the case though, I would expect you to say something like "If a lot of people agree Luke is town maybe we should be taking his case on T3 more seriously: <insert quote or post number here>". It just feels like a half-assed attempt to move the wagon someplace else because you dont want to appear too eager.

If you were concerned more with finding scum than derailing RMH you would be coming harder at one of your scumreads. Right now though you're hedging between Angel and T3, probably waiting for one to take off so the pressure comes down from RMH.

I'm not sure how this last part relates to what I said. If you weren't searching for it, then you recalled it, so it must have been of some interest to you if you remembered it. I'm also not sure why you would say it should be spotlighted and that it's not very interesting in the same post.

[Angel Warriors]

like 1) that meta is so outdated
2) even if it wasn't, the tone is completely different from this game

I do not buy even for one millisecond that rodeo beleived that game said absolutely anything about my alignment here. firstly that game had a ton of people that I love. secondly, my tone is completely different and its very clear I am trying to pocket people there,

-bear bear nor