mini normal 2226; who won

[Datisi]

math, i'm struggling forming a read on you too - could you give me a tl;dr of your views on the game/players? you jumped around a lot during your catchup, would be nice to have that in one post. a tierlist with maybe half a sentence for everyone would be grand

[MegAzumarill]

Wish I had more time today but something came up. Here goes my first batch of analysis. I probably will refrain from analysing Mathblade/seanzie slot for now. Hopefully, I can get the rest done today.

Alchemist: lots of posts, presses people for their reasonings, very reactionary, null read
Aristeia: posts little content, but still shows they are following the game closely in 184, strong townread
ChaosOmega: keeps posts long, fairly thoroughly analyses conversations, doesn’t actively push his reads out, weak townread
Datisi: tends to latch onto one thing about a player that they find suspicious and stick by it for long stretches, townread,
Flubber: doesn’t provide a lot of reads and doesn’t appear to be actively contributing, scumread
Gamma: reasonings seem to be understandable and seem to be thinking out their actions, townread

Mathblade: new sub in so chalk it up to a null read so far
Lukewarm: likes to move around their vote, clash with Chaos appears to be Town on town Imo, mainly coming from a disparity in approach to votes, slight townread
T3: is T3, slight townread
Titus: doesn’t seem super concerned with exactly who is limmed, which seems townie (as I suspect there are 1 or more scum outside of their townblock) but doesn’t seem to provide a good flow of logic into the game, slight townread
Tris: extremely scummy, lim on sight
Umlaut: mostly talks surrounding flubber, and not adding input on the rest of the game, posts intermittently but not often. Scumread
Vulture: on 2 occasions (me and flubber) added to a large wagon without providing thoughts of said wagon, very few reads given until very recently, Scumread

Honestly it feels like vulture hasn’t received enough pressure after their putting flubber at E-1. Especially after Chaos ended up doing the same before, with a much less meaningful vote.

VOTE: Vulture

okay then

- why is alchemist null? you listed things that seem like it should be ai (pressing for reasoning/being reactionary)? if they're not ai, why even bother to list them?
- why is "following the game closely" worthy of a *strong townread*? and what about her readslist made you so sure that it's genuine?
- why am i a townread for latching onto things for a long amount of time?
- what makes you believe that luke/omega is t/t?
- do you have exp with t3? why are they "slight townread"?

i also had a "provide examples" for pretty much every single one of your reads, but that got repetitive very quickly...

- pressing for reasoning is a fantastic tactic for scum to use (and one I enjoy using as well), often leading to a false sense of towniness due to high post count without having to construct a large amount of reads. I find it something to bring up because I have seen the tactic leading to false locktowns and resulting losses for town, It also is a useful tactic for stagnating conversation by reiterating what already has been said.
- its mainly the way they are following, they seem keen on giving their thoughts on the game at hand often, and when pressed they showed they were keeping a pretty reasonable reads list on top of that. The main reason for me is they don't seem to want to steer the conversation in any given direction, which although you can have scum actively following and contributing, scum doing that is usually possessing an agenda, something it is clear Ari does not have.
- Your locking on to something and trying to pressure that person until you are convinced they are town ends up seeming towny. You give off the energy of trying to spot scum, and when you think you have, you don't let up until you either are convinced otherwise or find another person to pressure, and while I don't doubt it can be very effective, it does seem awfully prone to causing mislims.
- it feels like the main conflict of lukewarm and T3 is coming from a disparity in the use of votes. Luke is using votes with stated reasonings in order to elicit a particular response (usually an explanation or readlist, etc.) while Chaos is using votes as a tool to only eliminate who they believe to be scum. This causes conflict in two places. 1. Chaos, as he had stated had agreed with the reasons on the flubber wagon and added their vote to show that, without adding reasonings (probably to avoid uselessly parroting what others had said) and Luke finds this lack of giving reasons for his vote suspiscious. 2. Chaos votes Luke for constantly changing vote, which in his use of voting would mean a constantly chaotic and fluctuating read list, which he doesn't find natural. (I find this explanation to line up with the 2 players play up to this point, including Luke's vote on me for similar reasons)
- T3 is chaos, they do whatever. I have played enough with T3 to know that at least. I looked at a few of their other games in preparation for a different game I had with them, and their play seems more similar to their town games than scum. Its a slight town read because its been a while since I looked at the games and its not a whole lot to go on.


The notes on my analysis aren't entirely why I read them as I do, but more like the most notable observation I had gotten from the analysis.

[MathBlade]

Mathblade: new sub in so chalk it up to a null read so far
Lukewarm: likes to move around their vote, clash with Chaos appears to be Town on town Imo, mainly coming from a disparity in approach to votes, slight townread
T3: is T3, slight townread
Titus: doesn’t seem super concerned with exactly who is limmed, which seems townie (as I suspect there are 1 or more scum outside of their townblock) but doesn’t seem to provide a good flow of logic into the game, slight townread
Tris: extremely scummy, lim on sight
Umlaut: mostly talks surrounding flubber, and not adding input on the rest of the game, posts intermittently but not often. Scumread
Vulture: on 2 occasions (me and flubber) added to a large wagon without providing thoughts of said wagon, very few reads given until very recently, Scumread

Honestly it feels like vulture hasn’t received enough pressure after their putting flubber at E-1. Especially after Chaos ended up doing the same before, with a much less meaningful vote.

VOTE: Vulture

Really? I have more posts than a good chunk of the game and you can’t formulate any sort of read on me?

I'm in the same boat as meg tbh

Okay then ask me what you need to get a read on me. What helps you sort me?

I don't know.
I guess I'll metadive you.

K. I will be sniping off and on all night as I can.

I would not recommend meta diving me but if that helps you go for it.

Pedit: Datisi, I can do that late tonight. I can’t really do that from my phone and my PC is occupied atm

[Datisi]

no worries, i'm about to go pass out anyway.

[Datisi]

hm. meg's thoughts do seem more elaborate than what i was expecting. it does make me hesitant a bit, i'll give it some more thought once i get some sleep.

[tris]

VC 1.09

MegAzumarill (6):

Datisi 286, Aristeia 327, Gamma Emerald 364, Titus 390, Vulture 456, Flubbernugget 537

D-1

Flubbernugget (3):

Umlaut 29, T3 113, Alchemist21 371

ChaosOmega (2):

Lukewarm 259, MathBlade 558

Lukewarm (1):

ChaosOmega 261

Vulture (1):

MegAzumarill 579

not voting:

with 13 alive it takes 7 to destroy.

deadline:

(expired on 2021-08-08 18:55:00)

[T3]

Scum!MathBlade just giga tryhards lol

[tris]

@mod I will be v/la from the 10th to the 23rd

because this is too long, i am replacing Flubbernugget.

[T3]

Town!MathBlade post less and is more passive.

[T3]

Intent to hammer

[MegAzumarill]

I'm fine to be today's mislim but I would like to discuss my analysis more in depth, especially when more people are online.

Try to curb your trigger happy hammering and not cut the day short, I have more to say but the discussion will take some time.

I'm trying to provide some direction forward after I flip green, if I flip red feel free to use the discussion I'm adding to hunt for my partner(s).

No need to cut the day short by 6 IRL days and remove 2 townie voices with stuff to say (mine and the NK tonight)

[tris]

say hi to Prism who is replacing Flubbernugget.

[T3]

Un-intent to hammer

[Prism]

UNVOTE:

Given 610 and Meg's relative inexperience-why is this slot even on the table?

I will be reading over the game tomorrow and perhaps can answer my own question then.

[Prism]

Good timing.

[MegAzumarill]

Hi prism! I hope you are doing well tonight.

Thanks for the unvote, although I doubt it will help much.

[Prism]

Why did you want to hammer to begin with T3?

I was watching a movie but after pacing for a week excited to play maybe I'll just start reading now, 50/50

[T3]

Why did you want to hammer to begin with T3?

I was watching a movie but after pacing for a week excited to play maybe I'll just start reading now, 50/50

Because she's a nullscum read and I didn't see why not.

[T3]

Then she pointed out the deadline.

[Prism]

Want to vote Datisi but will holdoff until catchup. Instinctually this page is enough for a dayvig between 600's weird tone w/ MathBlade & the sequence quoted in 601. Latter is more striking, comes off as playing hard with intent to shove through as opposed to legitimate questioning.

[MegAzumarill]

I did forget to ask Vulture what they mean by "stilted: its evident it isnt a positive term but I hadn't heard it before this game.

[Gamma Emerald]

Maybe scum don’t have a PT and have a discord instead? I have played a smaller game where this was the case. Reading that in the OP made me think what if no scum have a PT at all and made me want to join to see if this is the case.

This would be a shit move to pull imo

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=73980

It’s really not. It just has to be planned for and balanced around.

Mafia is defined as an informed minority vs an informed majority.

In that game I was scum so I am weary of weird setups because I have seen them.

There’s nothing in the normal rules that I could find where scum have to have a PT.

In a normal game, saying there are three people “in a PT” but using Discord as a workaround is like, such sticking dickhead troll move any mod who pulled it would be boo’ed off the fucking site

[Prism]

I'm phoning it in for this game. Normal games don't have the same zest as other games, it feels like, so I'm unsure why I threw myself in here.

I'm comfortable with the townpool of T3/Datisi/Lukewarm/Ari (Her posting improved once I saw more for her. Someone prodded her on a read on someone I don't remember, but it didn't feel as if it was something she made up). Thinking about Titus some; from a glance at a recent scum game, she went hard after her partners. It doesn't feel like she's doing that this game and unless she has at least 1 partner in the townpool I'm inclined to believe she's town from that as well.

Chaos's vote being parked on Flubber feels strange. I feel as if he's abandoned (at least somewhat) pressing there in favor of calling out other slots as weird. But keeping his vote parked on Flubber while having another growing wagon (Meg) and acknowledging her as weird feels as if Chaos doesn't want to vote a partner and wants to go for a miselim on Flubber.

VOTE: MegAzumarill.

This, however, depends on Meg flipping scum. And given that Meg sounds awkward, fine to vote there regardless.

Consider playing the game again; feel free to expound on Meg as a springboard.

Sincerely hoping that refusing to play the game is not a towntell, but all signs point to it being one.

[Vulture]

It's NAI. The best I can say as to why it's been recently is "reasons", but I have some energy to think about games coming back.

I don't really know what to think about Meg's response, because it's more in depth than what was originally given and that feels... backwards. Meg might not have had the time beforehand but when asked to catch up and being under some pressure I would think she'd want to be helpful without the nudging of someone else.

However, that doesn't mean the responses weren't good. I'm still in the process of discerning that part.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think assuming scum has a pt is some massive slip

I never said it was.

My main job as town is to consider all possible options. Having seen prior games where scum didn’t have a PT I didn’t want a potential mass claim situation where people “I am in a PT” “Me too” “Me three” then scum who didn’t have a PT goes “Now we know who to kill.”

I thrive off town making bad assumptions when scum so my goal here was to avoid bad assumptions.

There’s bad assumptions and then there’s “literally would get the mod banned from the normal queue”
Using Discord in place of a PT to circumvent public mod info isn’t something that fits in a Normal game, ever.