mini normal 2226; who won

[MathBlade]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12817491

Can you explain the difference Datisi?

The only difference I find is with you than Umlaut here, but I am also horrible at meta reads so I am hoping you can go “Math you dumb dumb this is why” in a super nice way

[ChaosOmega]

My stance for like 75% of the day was Chaos>Meg.

Yes I thought that meg was scummy too, but I compromised away from my top preference Day 1.

I have a strong preference to a Chaos > Meg elim day 1.

I think that they are both about equally scummy, but Meg having actually no opinions in thread means that we don't get any associatives from a Meg flip.

I still think that both Meg and Chaos are scummy, but I my preference for chaos is falling away.

Meg has gained some associatives recently, more in how other people (and not just prism) have interacted with the slot then just their recent read list, and the lack of meg associaives was the main thing pushing me towards flipping chaos first.

My top scum reads are chaos and meg, and I want to elim in those 2 personally.

I had a preference for chaos, but thought meg was also a good choice. that preference has gone away due to other slots interaction with the meg wagon

Your preference seemed to be for Meg most of D1, but favoring me due to lack of associatives. Describing it as a compromise feels wrong, she got more associatives and became a better lim candidate from your progression here it looks like.

[ChaosOmega]

It feels like Gamma and Luke are both trying to pull momentum away from Umlaut here.

Explain why this has to be an either or situation.

Far as I am concerned my vote would be about game health and you’re both scummy AF to me.

I don't know what the either or here is referring to.

[MathBlade]

It feels like Gamma and Luke are both trying to pull momentum away from Umlaut here.

Explain why this has to be an either or situation.

Far as I am concerned my vote would be about game health and you’re both scummy AF to me.

I don't know what the either or here is referring to.

Why should I town read you?

Why does it have to be a pull away momentum from Umlaut?

Why does Umlaut have to be scum and you town? Don’t get me wrong I scumread Umlaut but I do this dishonest framing as scum all the time. I hate black and white fallacies.

[MathBlade]

You both quite frankly could be scum and the more people dig in and say no the more I lean that way being the case.

[ChaosOmega]

It feels like Gamma and Luke are both trying to pull momentum away from Umlaut here.

Explain why this has to be an either or situation.

Far as I am concerned my vote would be about game health and you’re both scummy AF to me.

I don't know what the either or here is referring to.

Why should I town read you?

Why does it have to be a pull away momentum from Umlaut?

Why does Umlaut have to be scum and you town? Don’t get me wrong I scumread Umlaut but I do this dishonest framing as scum all the time. I hate black and white fallacies.

Because I'm town? If you think I'm pushing an angle here and I'm not being genuine then vote me, but I don't know what you want in terms of why you should town read me.

Umlaut seems to be settled as the top lim choice today. Gamma and Luke (other than Umlaut I guess, but honestly not really) are the main people fighting that, either by pushing for my lim or trying to towncase Umlaut. Now for some speculation. With the info that only 3 people have access to a PT, I think there is a higher than normal chance of a traitor being in the game. If so, there is only 2 group-scum, and I think there is going to be more of a defense put up to save a partner in that scenario. I might have tunnel vision here a bit at this point, my solve right now is Umlaut/Lukewarm with Gamma as a traitor.

And again, not sure what you're looking for with this question. My point is something I'm seeing in the game, I'm coming into it with a bias that I think Umlaut is scum and therefore this action being done is suspicious, but I'm not trying to imply a dichotomy here. From your perspective if you're town, me/Umlaut interaction could be T-T, T-S, S-T, or S-S. So uh, you figure it out I guess?

[Datisi]

Now for some speculation. With the info that only 3 people have access to a PT, I think there is a higher than normal chance of a traitor being in the game.

actually no, the odds of a traitor, who doesn't have access to a pt, drop to zero. if there are three scum, two with a pt, where's the third player with it? can't be a townie, since they would immediately know what their partner is scum.

i think it would use you to rethink a little bit, i get you think umlaut is scum, but both his partners being that obvious in trying to save him would be a bit... unlikely, at least?

@math, i'll get to your q later, about to leave the house right now.

[ChaosOmega]

Now for some speculation. With the info that only 3 people have access to a PT, I think there is a higher than normal chance of a traitor being in the game.

actually no, the odds of a traitor, who doesn't have access to a pt, drop to zero. if there are three scum, two with a pt, where's the third player with it? can't be a townie, since they would immediately know what their partner is scum.

i think it would use you to rethink a little bit, i get you think umlaut is scum, but both his partners being that obvious in trying to save him would be a bit... unlikely, at least?

@math, i'll get to your q later, about to leave the house right now.

Town neighborizer could be 1 of the 3. I just feel like since it was mentioned, it's trying to troll us in some way.

And agreed, it's unlikely it is that obvious. Still want to flip Umlaut first before really digging into that, but if Umlaut does flip scum, I think there is definitely one scum in Lukewarm/Gamma at least.

[Gamma Emerald]

The issue is idk if there’s a standardized way for neighborizer to start (with or without a hood)

[DkKoba]

Now for some speculation. With the info that only 3 people have access to a PT, I think there is a higher than normal chance of a traitor being in the game.

actually no, the odds of a traitor, who doesn't have access to a pt, drop to zero. if there are three scum, two with a pt, where's the third player with it? can't be a townie, since they would immediately know what their partner is scum.

i think it would use you to rethink a little bit, i get you think umlaut is scum, but both his partners being that obvious in trying to save him would be a bit... unlikely, at least?

@math, i'll get to your q later, about to leave the house right now.

not to tryhard but i had a normal where neighborizer started with their PT and wrote in it and left notes for the next person when they died n1 while using their action

[DkKoba]

and now i cant find that game and cba to so hf

[Datisi]

yeah, but the issue is - 2 main mafia are 2 people witb a pt, town neighbour is the 3rd. because they know there can only be 3 people with a pt, they automatically know their neighbour has to be scum.

that's fair. is there anyone other than gamma/luke who you don't townread/scumread, associates aside?

pedit: i got distracted

maybe we should ask the mod if a neighbourized would count as having a pt, but i'm like 95% sure i read on the wiki they don't start with one as per the normal rules but also i'm tired right now so

also hi koba do you have any thoughts on the game

[DkKoba]

yes, i think im having a good time.

[DkKoba]

im using this game as a test to see if i can intentionally not WIM so i can mimic this when i roll scum btw - and also so scum dont kill me because im a fun role :3

[Datisi]

...any alignment thoughts on anyone?

[ChaosOmega]

I asked the mod hypothetically, if a Town Neighborizer with no neighbors was in this game, would they count as 1 of the 3 people with access to a PT, and was told they would.

[Datisi]

huh. well okay then.

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah, but the issue is - 2 main mafia are 2 people witb a pt, town neighbour is the 3rd. because they know there can only be 3 people with a pt, they automatically know their neighbour has to be scum.

that's fair. is there anyone other than gamma/luke who you don't townread/scumread, associates aside?

pedit: i got distracted

maybe we should ask the mod if a neighbourized would count as having a pt, but i'm like 95% sure i read on the wiki they don't start with one as per the normal rules but also i'm tired right now so

also hi koba do you have any thoughts on the game

If the town neighbor start with someone in the PT that would be correct
But I already stated when we started down the setup spec road that the statement in the OP only went for the start of the game. A neighborizer wouldn’t have the privilege of that knowledge

[DkKoba]

who cares, just kill the baddies lol

[Gamma Emerald]

I asked the mod hypothetically, if a Town Neighborizer with no neighbors was in this game, would they count as 1 of the 3 people with access to a PT, and was told they would.

Neat, that’s squared away then

[Datisi]

But I already stated when we started down the setup spec road that the statement in the OP only went for the start of the game.

i am aware of that, i was discussing whether a neighbourizer starts in a pt at the start of the game or not. i thought they wouldn't, but i guess i was wrong.

[Gamma Emerald]

It’s less that they don’t start in it and more that it doesn’t matter whether they did because they’d count to the number in the post if the PT started as open or not

[Titus]

I thought about a possible solution to this while driving. A traitor. Then two scum, 1 neighborizer.

[Titus]

Or just 3 scum.

[Umlaut]

Welcome to the game, still more replacement(s)

VOTE: Alch

Experiment time!

VOTE: Unvote

Nevermind bad idea.

Datisi I will make you a deal. I will vote Umlaut right now for the low low price of “told you so” post game.

What exactly was the plan with this experiment? Like what were you hoping would happen?