In post 2046, Dwlee99 wrote:If limit is scum someone is definitely bussing here but none of the pushes feel like bussing so limit is probably just flipping town here.
Counterpoint; could it perhaps be that the reason so many counterwagons to Limit are cropping up be due to the fact that scum really don't want a Limit wagon to go through and are desperate to find a wagon on someone,
anyone
, for it to not?
Attempts to wagon Bingle (who admittedly could be scum with a fairly decent chance but actually believe it or not I have a stronger scumread on TLDNE than I do Bingle, surprisingly enough, so if there's a town between the two slots and a scum between the two slots I'd be more inclined to think the scum as Limit than Bingle even though I am fully aware both have a good chance to be scum).
Attempts to wagon Fairy Circle (who admittedly could be scum especially if Bingle isn't although I would say this would be weird--Bingle if scum with Limit could feasibly be a wagon scum would prefer if Bingle wasn't lying about zero pain potions in spite of him being scum, meaning if Bingle+Limit were scum and if Bingle had no pain potions, scum would prefer Bingle > Limit as the lim...but Fairy Circle vs. Limit has no such incentive meaning that it makes no sense for scum to wagon Fairy Circle if Fairy Circle were scum with TLDNE).
Attempts, successful to a fair degree, to wagon RCEnigma.
Attempts to wagon T3, with some success.
I think there's been people giving ideas to wagon Dwlee or Norwee although I don't think those attempts are as successful as the above two examples.
I get that the resistance to a Limit elimination is not all scum. Town can be wrong and town even if right can get paranoid, thinking "there's a lack of reliable resistance" or something like that, thinking that no counterwagon which has stuck could be a clearing factor for Limit (which I argue is backwards and that a lack of a sticking counterwagon to Limit is actually evidence that they're scum but I digress).
But I keep looking at all of the counterwagons rising, most of them with lackluster logic and reasoning and something of an air of desperation to them, and I can't help but think, "while town not having good direction can be a part of this, this also has to have scum influence behind it". And that's one of the reasons why I want a Limit elimination.
I think the reasons for Limit to be scum are good, and the reasons for Limit to not be scum are lackluster, and that a Limit flip regardless of their alignment sheds more light on the alignment of all the players by giving us a much better understanding of the gamestate for all of D2 and that with their death, we will have a far better grasp of town vs. scum going into the night and tomorrow.
Now, I can actually explain some of the "Limit-town means x, Limit-scum means y" logic, but given the gamestate right now, one of the reasons I want to stave off doing this and have been saying "I will reveal this on D3" is that honestly: I don't want to do the massive amount of theorywork, theorycrafting, hypothesizing, analysis, for whichever alignment Limit isn't. I want to save the time/effort involved and cut it in half and do all of it after the fact, aided by the information from any flips we get on N2.
I do have a decent mental draft of it in my head. It's not rock-solid, it's not something concrete, but it's something I genuinely believe would be the best for the gamestate and I can explain more...
...On D3.
