Slaughter Hour: Grand Debut | Deliberation Room Blue

petapan · Post Post #200 (ISO) » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:22 am

In post 198, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 196, petapan wrote:can you link to that stuff
the stuff I liked, the work I put in the sort her, or both?

the stuff about working with her and liking what you saw

Gamma Emerald · Post Post #201 (ISO) » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:41 am

I'm gonna do this in chunks
Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Gamma Emerald wrote:
@ulyana
: I feel like the questioning you've been doing doesn't reflect so well in light of what the throne has been revealed to do. It feels like you've been trying to parse out feelings from people to determine who'd be a good choice for the chair. Can you explain your motives a bit?

@Saber
: I get how you thought my play was erratic in a way that felt tactical, but I can probably point to a few games where I've made sharp turns at critical moments as town. What I think I'm most interested in is your reads in general, because aside from your reads on me and Galron, those don't feel exactly clear rn. I've at least sussed out from your ISO that you TR Taly and ulyana.

@Dunnstral
: can you talk about why you've responded to certain things that you did and when you did so? I think that's the greatest bother for me about you currently.

@peta
: Let's take this from the top. I'm going to try to be more rational about being questioned. Do you still want answers to 359? Are there any other posts of yours you feel I've overlooked?

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

ulyana wrote:
In post 1783, Gamma Emerald wrote:
@ulyana
: I feel like the questioning you've been doing doesn't reflect so well in light of what the throne has been revealed to do. It feels like you've been trying to parse out feelings from people to determine who'd be a good choice for the chair. Can you explain your motives a bit?

@Saber
: I get how you thought my play was erratic in a way that felt tactical, but I can probably point to a few games where I've made sharp turns at critical moments as town. What I think I'm most interested in is your reads in general, because aside from your reads on me and Galron, those don't feel exactly clear rn. I've at least sussed out from your ISO that you TR Taly and ulyana.

@Dunnstral
: can you talk about why you've responded to certain things that you did and when you did so? I think that's the greatest bother for me about you currently.

@peta
: Let's take this from the top. I'm going to try to be more rational about being questioned. Do you still want answers to 359? Are there any other posts of yours you feel I've overlooked?
?? my motives are to find the baddies talking about something the baddies possibly informed about a good way to possibly identify like ……

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 1793, ulyana wrote:
In post 1783, Gamma Emerald wrote:
@ulyana
: I feel like the questioning you've been doing doesn't reflect so well in light of what the throne has been revealed to do. It feels like you've been trying to parse out feelings from people to determine who'd be a good choice for the chair. Can you explain your motives a bit?

@Saber
: I get how you thought my play was erratic in a way that felt tactical, but I can probably point to a few games where I've made sharp turns at critical moments as town. What I think I'm most interested in is your reads in general, because aside from your reads on me and Galron, those don't feel exactly clear rn. I've at least sussed out from your ISO that you TR Taly and ulyana.

@Dunnstral
: can you talk about why you've responded to certain things that you did and when you did so? I think that's the greatest bother for me about you currently.

@peta
: Let's take this from the top. I'm going to try to be more rational about being questioned. Do you still want answers to 359? Are there any other posts of yours you feel I've overlooked?
?? my motives are to find the baddies talking about something the baddies possibly informed about a good way to possibly identify like ……
so your intent was to see who took something in a wrong direction that suggested extra knowledge? That feels reasonable if my reading is right

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

ulyana wrote:
In post 1795, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 1793, ulyana wrote:
In post 1783, Gamma Emerald wrote:
@ulyana
: I feel like the questioning you've been doing doesn't reflect so well in light of what the throne has been revealed to do. It feels like you've been trying to parse out feelings from people to determine who'd be a good choice for the chair. Can you explain your motives a bit?

@Saber
: I get how you thought my play was erratic in a way that felt tactical, but I can probably point to a few games where I've made sharp turns at critical moments as town. What I think I'm most interested in is your reads in general, because aside from your reads on me and Galron, those don't feel exactly clear rn. I've at least sussed out from your ISO that you TR Taly and ulyana.

@Dunnstral
: can you talk about why you've responded to certain things that you did and when you did so? I think that's the greatest bother for me about you currently.

@peta
: Let's take this from the top. I'm going to try to be more rational about being questioned. Do you still want answers to 359? Are there any other posts of yours you feel I've overlooked?
?? my motives are to find the baddies talking about something the baddies possibly informed about a good way to possibly identify like ……
so your intent was to see who took something in a wrong direction that suggested extra knowledge? That feels reasonable if my reading is right
where did you think my thoughts with regards to prism pooky taly came from ???

I was perturbed by how ulyana kinda felt too in the loop, and when I questioned it her thought process felt like it tracked pretty well

Gamma Emerald · Post Post #202 (ISO) » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:43 am

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

ulyana wrote:
In post 1821, Gamma Emerald wrote:my thinking the entire time has been scum knew it was a kingmaker vote, with strong belief they also knew about the vote to execute or spare the executioner afterwards. I don't believe they knew about the reward for sparing a town executioner, but I do think they know what the reward is now.
so you thought this and didn’t think OH!!!!!! when they killed pooky????

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 1823, ulyana wrote:
In post 1821, Gamma Emerald wrote:my thinking the entire time has been scum knew it was a kingmaker vote, with strong belief they also knew about the vote to execute or spare the executioner afterwards. I don't believe they knew about the reward for sparing a town executioner, but I do think they know what the reward is now.
so you thought this and didn’t think OH!!!!!! when they killed pooky????
I don't think they had sabo info for the second event for the first event, I think each sabo only applies to what's going on at the time
the first event sabo was probably some way to deny someone the chair, whether it be by killing them or just veto'ing the vote.

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

ulyana wrote:
In post 1832, Gamma Emerald wrote:I don't think they had sabo info for the second event for the first event, I think each sabo only applies to what's going on at the time
the first event sabo was probably some way to deny someone the chair, whether it be by killing them or just veto'ing the vote.
right but you said you think the mafia knew it was a kingmaker yes? and then when pooky was killed, this would be obvious explanation to you, yes? because pooky speculated at length about exactly this? but then this did not factor into any of your further thought with regards to who to choose???

I liked how she kinda tried to guide my "NKA" here, I don't feel like there's a vibe of someone who's leaking the real kill motive

Gamma Emerald · Post Post #203 (ISO) » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:45 am

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

ulyana wrote:
In post 1838, Gamma Emerald wrote:I think killing someone for having an accurate guess as to one event would be premature. And like, Pooky only guessed at the kingmaker, not the "mercy or genocide" (I'm calling it that because honestly that feels more right than "execute or spare") vote afterward.
??? you think scum!pooky would have possibly accurately guessed the event in that situation? like you did not think of that as clearing when thinking about who to vote before pooky was killed?

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 1729, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 345, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:I think maybe we should give the throne to someone who
doesn't
want it

because scumbags know if this thing is good or not.

if it's good, scumbags will want it.

if it's bad, scumbags won't want it.

So if we give it to someone who wants it, it's more likely we give it to a scumbag if it's good, and a non-scumbag if it's bad.

In post 345, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:I think maybe we should give the throne to someone who
doesn't
want it

because scumbags know if this thing is good or not.

if it's good, scumbags will want it.

if it's bad, scumbags won't want it.

So if we give it to someone who wants it, it's more likely we give it to a scumbag if it's good, and a non-scumbag if it's bad.
Yeah it seems like Pooky is on my wavelength that I expressed in response to 126 about how scum would’ve approached this.

Also I think I can pinpoint the page this post was on as where everything went to shit for me.
Actually, I did post this, ulyana may have a point that between his idea about kingmaker being right and his thoughts lining up with mine, that's what made him scum's target.

these go with the last bit

Gamma Emerald · Post Post #204 (ISO) » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:50 am

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Gamma Emerald wrote:Trust these people until the end of time: Taly, Infinity, Skitter, Ydrasse, Sircakez
Good folks to keep around: Gypyx, Petapan
Could do with a touching-up: Dunnstral, Dwlee, Ulyana
Remove them from the premises: Saber, Galron, Toogeloo

I think I’m sitting somewhere around here?
FYI I kinda felt like Saber’s response to my question about the progression on me felt a little sus

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

ulyana wrote:
In post 1968, Taly wrote:I'd drop Peta, Ydra, and Dunn all down a tier.
so you both think... sircakez is definitely town here?

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 1968, Taly wrote:We won't know the benefit.

In post 1965, Gamma Emerald wrote:Trust these people until the end of time: Taly, Infinity, Skitter, Ydrasse, Sircakez
Good folks to keep around: Gypyx, Petapan
Could do with a touching-up: Dunnstral, Dwlee, Ulyana
Remove them from the premises: Saber, Galron, Toogeloo

I think I’m sitting somewhere around here?
FYI I kinda felt like Saber’s response to my question about the progression on me felt a little sus
I'd drop
Peta, Ydra, and Dunn
all down a tier.
idk about peta and Dunn, but Ydra I definitely feel like isn’t showing the same fatigue as she had in PYP, so unless between games she got a second wind, I don’t think she’s scum here
In post 1969, ulyana wrote:
In post 1968, Taly wrote:I'd drop Peta, Ydra, and Dunn all down a tier.
so you both think... sircakez is definitely town here?
Yeah pretty much
I feel like I’m pretty good at tone reading Cakez, as I’ve said before.

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

ulyana wrote:
In post 1974, Gamma Emerald wrote:Yeah pretty much
I feel like I’m pretty good at tone reading Cakez, as I’ve said before.
okay how do you feel about taly noting other disagreements with your list but ignoring that one even though taly has mentioned multiple times cakez being suspicious/in poe?

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 1975, ulyana wrote:
In post 1974, Gamma Emerald wrote:Yeah pretty much
I feel like I’m pretty good at tone reading Cakez, as I’ve said before.
okay how do you feel about taly noting other disagreements with your list but ignoring that one even though taly has mentioned multiple times cakez being suspicious/in poe?
It just reads as he considered those the most egregious reads in my list. I can deem a read list acceptable while having nitpicks with it.

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

ulyana wrote:
In post 1979, Gamma Emerald wrote:It just reads as he considered those the most egregious reads in my list. I can deem a read list acceptable while having nitpicks with it.
so you think dunn peta and ydra should be one tier lower would be more egregious to taly than 'we should trust until the ends of the earth'-ing someone taly has previously expressed heavy suspicion of?

ngl this interaction I feel like doesn't vibe that well assuming taly and cakez are town?

petapan · Post Post #205 (ISO) » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:01 am

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Taly wrote:
ulyana wrote:
In post 1971, Taly wrote:Nah, I actually have several more changes I'd make with Gamma's list, I just only said those.
hm, why did that one seem not important to mention? i am wondering because it is very very much not in line with any of your posted views towards cakez as far as i can tell
Because 1960 is something I really want
Cakez
to respond to and I don't want other posts I make about him to influence how he answers.

Galron wrote:UNVOTE:

I read it wrong.
I presume you have tangible reads based off the events though. No strong vote anywhere?

i don't know honestly

i can see town and scum trying to nitpick how taly handled that list, you know? like it's possible to be legitimate inquiry but also something scum pounces on as an inconsistency

i gtg don't have time to look in detail

Saber · Post Post #206 (ISO) » Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:13 pm

Based on my frozen in time memory:

Infinity>Toogeloo>ulyana>Dwlee>skitter>Taly

Haven't had a chance to check Dunnstral interactions or read last 20 or so pages of thread.

petapan · Post Post #207 (ISO) » Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:59 am

was too tired last night and this thread was inactive but i'll go over taly/dunn stuff now

should say in advance, don't take this as the be all end all because town can have weird interactions with scum, need to take the body of work into account, just want this observed for the sake of completeness

early interaction stuff with dunn, doesn't mean a whole lot to me

Spoiler:

the "come talk to me" is a little weird here

Spoiler:

disagreeing over whether or not to state intent to hammer, nothing much imo

Spoiler:

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Taly wrote:Dunn quickwagon pinged.

answering pooky calling out dunn

Spoiler:

this is still late day 1
Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Taly wrote:I want to flip Uly and Dunn now.

grilling dunn about gamme

Spoiler:

(stylistically i don't like the way he addresses ulyana in 1480 but i've seen town players talk that way)

this is maybe letting him off a little easy?

Spoiler:

Then, a real time day later, Dunn is LHF?
Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Taly wrote:
Dunn
is a good person to chair imo but it's partially why he's been so absent. I don't think I'd get much from his flip. He feels LHF. Does someone have a meta-take?

using nka is kind of flaky to me but i don't necessarily think it's bad

Spoiler:

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Taly wrote:We won't know the benefit.

In post 1965, Gamma Emerald wrote:Trust these people until the end of time: Taly, Infinity, Skitter, Ydrasse, Sircakez
Good folks to keep around: Gypyx, Petapan
Could do with a touching-up: Dunnstral, Dwlee, Ulyana
Remove them from the premises: Saber, Galron, Toogeloo

I think I’m sitting somewhere around here?
FYI I kinda felt like Saber’s response to my question about the progression on me felt a little sus
I'd drop
Peta, Ydra, and Dunn
all down a tier.

the push on dunn here is

okay

looking but...there's not a lot behind it, no strong rationale, and that concerns me

Spoiler:

like he dumped a wall on me 7 posts after this but with dunn there was never a lot behind it

Spoiler:

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Taly wrote:Also, I have absolutely no clue if
Dunn
is reading this game beyond every two or third post that mentions him.

This isn't a slight at all, I just can't feel compelled to think he's town because he's returned to the exact same conversations as the previous game phases, and has added no additional content. The coasting feels scummy because it has worked in his favor.

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Taly wrote:
In post 2754, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 2525, Taly wrote:
In post 2512, Dunnstral wrote:I don't know how to read taly with meta*
I don't want to give you self-meta unless you ask for it. But otherwise, how can I help you read me better?

--

skitter
Am I tunneled on
peta
? I feel like their reaction my suspicion of then has just been dismissive and I don't like their complacency with voteparking on
ydra
.
I don't want meta, I want to figure things out from this game
I love that plan, man.

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Taly wrote:
Dunn
feels closer to town than earlier this phase. But I just don't like the taste of two scumreads I pushed on relatively lukewarm slots to diminish so quickly.

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Taly wrote:
In post 2801, skitter30 wrote:I felt his mortal-kombat reaction just now doesnt come from scum-him
Dunn wouod also be a good vote
VOTE: Dunn

Teamwork makes the dreamwork.

Dunn
, do something.

the not taking initiative on dunn until skitter tells him to is...something

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Taly wrote:
Dunn
is stiff and someone I want to see an event result around to read better.

this is such a

weird

statement. "stiff" is an odd wording, "want to see an event result around" is...contrived? honestly feels like an unnatural thought

none of this is impossible to come from town, but the way the read seemed to kind of waver is kind of how i'd expect a teammate who is trying to go deep would read him, you know?

like i said though, overall body of work hasn't bothered me but it's mostly been a case of "yeah looks the part" and i haven't dug deeper

petapan · Post Post #208 (ISO) » Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:18 am

rereading ulyana's iso again and not sure i see it

putting my hands on my head and my elbows on my desk

Ydrasse · Post Post #209 (ISO) » Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:51 am

idk if i said this before but like

you called voting toog lazy but also it feels like going over everyone else in that neighborhood is hair pull inducing

isn’t it... overthinking/thinking yourself into a “smarter” decision to not just throw up toog again

dwelling on the lack of sabotage i kind of just ...

i’ll preface this with this is all gut minimal backreading because energy low and used for other things,

1) was the scum pt open? if not i think toog saying “spin the barrel for town cred” is a... pretty sincere statement made to a partner.
2) the lack of sabotage is kind of telling? in conjunction with dunn not spinning and doing his dramatics, if both parties know where the bullet is, he’s free to pull that stunt and then uh. toog can spin or he can and it’s a little extra flourish to make him look townier if he lives because realistically one of them has to die. idk if this means anything but maybe also they just didn’t want to waste a sabotage on /this/ event, but it feels notable.
3) some part of me thinks that toog was playing the straight man to dunn’s flamboyance; two different approaches to a townread.

Ydrasse · Post Post #210 (ISO) » Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:53 am

i’m having troubles seeing other people as stagehands in the other group too which is .. >_> not good for my paranoia here

(unwnd saying me/him/peta/cakez had a towny moment to forge a townblock)
(peta not outting the reasons for dunn-push)

etc

Ydrasse · Post Post #211 (ISO) » Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:54 am

presuming the stagehands are also talking in their pt, i’m tempted to set a “hard page limit” or something for us all to agree on or a deadline where we talk and then just vote, or something to like... constrain the information that will get over to the other group (assuming there is even stagehands there and i’m not in hell right now)

Ydrasse · Post Post #212 (ISO) » Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:55 am

as in once we hit x just vote despite all conversation, to lessen the angles maybe that stagehands have to set up someone to compete against

unwnd · Post Post #213 (ISO) » Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:56 am

In post 210, Ydrasse wrote:(unwnd saying me/him/peta/cakez had a towny moment to forge a townblock)

I have you in your own category of null

I think that statement was just comfort. I am comforted by a Stagehand being eliminated and having some degree of reason behind it

Ydrasse · Post Post #214 (ISO) » Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:57 am

to be fair

i don’t think you’re scum much atm

Ydrasse · Post Post #215 (ISO) » Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:57 am

but it was something that i have to consider bc well

hand waves at everything

Ydrasse · Post Post #216 (ISO) » Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:59 am

when i’m home i think i’ll try to figure out who i trust and then go from there

weeeee

unwnd · Post Post #217 (ISO) » Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:00 am

I pretty much agree with your #209 though

I'm not sure how many times I need to reword 'that was theater' before it really comes forward. I want to townread Peta for his 180 on Dunnstral but I also don't really quite understand where he's spinning his own wheels and doing all these monumental walkbacks and ISO picking. I'm pretty set on Toog/Ulyana but hey

unwnd · Post Post #218 (ISO) » Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:02 am

Like how can you not look at Dunnstral's literal princess bride ode and think 'this is a genuine interaction to be townread' because like. If it is TvS then why does Dunnstral take random choice and shoot at himself lol

Ydrasse · Post Post #219 (ISO) » Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:04 am

it’s harder for me to conceptualize shiki even rolling scum tbf

Ydrasse · Post Post #220 (ISO) » Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:04 am

back to swinging tire irons at the kneecaps of my accounts

unwnd · Post Post #221 (ISO) » Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:06 am

Just to follow up my own 217

I am still leaning peta is town because I think his process would take a lot to be superficial

I think this might just be another game (I harken back to the one with Mena/Skitter I think it was an open) where Peta is really gassed up and wants to solve openly. He could've stopped at the first ISO walkback and I would've been like 'jee guess Peta really cares about solving the game' but nah there's a madness to it

unwnd · Post Post #222 (ISO) » Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:09 am

In post 219, Ydrasse wrote:it’s harder for me to conceptualize shiki even rolling scum tbf

There's just something off in her delivery of thoughts that I've tried to explain here before. I don't really like getting to this point because while it's fun brain exercise it can lead to making everything exhaustive and then I start seeing shit that isn't really there.

At face value she's fine but I'm bothered by her need to slather on her personality if that makes sense

unwnd · Post Post #223 (ISO) » Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:15 am

Oh right my vote is on Taly and not Toog/Ulyana

Er, gut feelings. It's based on gamestate as before

But gamestate reads are very hit-and-miss and can be dangerous if your gamestate read is confbiased to hell and back. The short of it is that Taly's position in the thread bothers me or something like that. IDK!

petapan · Post Post #224 (ISO) » Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:44 am

In post 209, Ydrasse wrote:idk if i said this before but like

you called voting toog lazy but also it feels like going over everyone else in that neighborhood is hair pull inducing

isn’t it... overthinking/thinking yourself into a “smarter” decision to not just throw up toog again

dwelling on the lack of sabotage i kind of just ...

i’ll preface this with this is all gut minimal backreading because energy low and used for other things,

1) was the scum pt open? if not i think toog saying “spin the barrel for town cred” is a... pretty sincere statement made to a partner.
2) the lack of sabotage is kind of telling? in conjunction with dunn not spinning and doing his dramatics, if both parties know where the bullet is, he’s free to pull that stunt and then uh. toog can spin or he can and it’s a little extra flourish to make him look townier if he lives because realistically one of them has to die. idk if this means anything but maybe also they just didn’t want to waste a sabotage on /this/ event, but it feels notable.
3) some part of me thinks that toog was playing the straight man to dunn’s flamboyance; two different approaches to a townread.

i dunno

i want to flip him at some point because it's impossible to townread that but i don't know if going back there is the right move but if on review everyone else seems like a bad choice then i can go for it i guess