Open 833: Twin Trap [Postgame]

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: Vulture

[Vulture]

Noraa and I could have killed someone together instead of bussing. That’s dumb.

[Vulture]

Easier with retrospect to go back over things, reviewing Norwee now.

Looking over it now:

- The jump that Norwee makes opening the day thinking I'm town and siding with me more to then going back and picking at my thoughts and posts is gross. Like, there's not a real... progression? I guess the progression is supposed to be 'I think Noraa sounds very towny' but clearly he saw something he liked in my starting posts, and posts before, and then suddenly he has a new perspective which is like "I hate this, and I hate that, and you had a plan this is gross." But I don't know why he didn't have these thoughts before, I guess? Like if you dislike someone with that much vitriol you should notice before and not after.

- I think their interaction is pretty bare looking over it. Noraa isn't really trying to get Norwee's thoughts on anything that matters, because she's asking him "what would you be doing here if you were scum?" Which... sure, you can meta that question and go back and review his games, but 1) I don't think Noraa would do that, frankly and 2) she's not actually asking him about his thoughts on the game we are playing -now-, or his actions, or why he did this or that. It's a pretty fluffy exchange that doesn't actually implicate any of Norwee's actions but it makes it look like they're trying to do something.

- And then he tries to rush the day to end, I guess assuming that TA hammers me over Noraa given past posts? Idk. This is a dumb point but hey ~whatever I've got~.

Spoiler:

I'm not gonna vote, but i do lean more on the side of Vulture being town here than Noraa.

I could probably get a TR from norwee more easily by SRing him.

Why?

I'm not gonna vote, but i do lean more on the side of Vulture being town here than Noraa.

I feel the same strategically but disagree with the conclusion.

I'd like to hear STD chime in.

You’re gonna have to explain what that means champ.

I already said i'm not voting yet.

Norwee, lets say your holding a red role pm, what would you be doing right now?

Umm.
Idk, that depends on some other factors. Such as who i would be scum with.
But if we're talking standard procedure then i just try to find some good miselim option and push there.

Behavior and vibe wise what do you do

How would i know that? And why do you need to know?

ok lets say its elo and theres a townie who's been waffley on you slot. You could get their vote or you could make them a mislim. What do you do and why?

Again, i think the context matters.
But i guess i'm a bit more pockety as scum so try to get them on my side maybe.

I mean i'm not a frigging genius when it comes to playing as scum, most of the time i'd be happy with myself if i could do just the basics without being seen straight through.
Anyway what was the point in that? Did it help you read me somehow?

Fuck, i’m doubting myself so much now.

STD why did you vote.

Noraa what do you think i should do here.

Idk, i feel like Noraa sounds really townie in these last pages.

STD voting and unvoting is also really strange and i kinda feel like town wouldn't do that? Cus i don't see the point.

So if TA wants to bank on STD/Vulture i might be fine with that i think.

I feel like i wanna vote Vulture because there isn't much point in waiting anymore. If i do and there is no hammer then that should at least confirm that scum cannot be TA and from my POV it has to be Vulture/STD. (and possibly Noraa/me from TA's POV.)

VOTE: Vulture

TA?

If TA was scum with Noraa i’m going to cry.

Why wouldn't I just bus. Zzz.

Whoever's the town btwn Norwee and Tamora, nice throw.

Don't like this Lamist.

Like clearly everyone here wanted/was amicable to kill StD. Why do I go against the grain and force something infinitely harder for myself. Please, tell me.

p-edit: ...I mean, Norwee thought I was townie and aligned with my thoughts, yes? I can go back and quote the posts where he did that. Pocketing is kind of the thing I 'do' as scum. Why wouldn't I try to convince Norwee instead of doing this, exactly?

I mean the answer is pretty obvious? Sure it would be better for you to argue for killing STD, but that assumes he isn't on your team. Which is literally what Noraa has been saying.

Also, regarding the accidental hammer:

1) You pushed Dorsey on some pretty bad reasons.
2) You hammered; I'm asserting that you knew about it and tried to play it off.

Not really a bad reason, honestly, to call someone scum.

Not a bad reason, no.
Which explains why they were the likely designated mislim for today.

Vulture voted Noraa pretty early into the day, which i don't like for several reasons:

- It shows that they already had an plan in motion.
- There was very little assessing done before placing their vote, which i don't feel like is a town mindset to have for ElO.

Not to rush you, but this game does have a deadline.

This was just a page ago but here’s my thoughts on Norwee’s play.

It’s also like, pretty obvious that it wasn’t “kill both Noraa and Vulture” but “Protect and call Noraa townie and kill Vulture” which says about all it needs to.

[Vulture]

@Dragons if you need anything else from me or what have you I’ll be around at some point but I’ve said what I think so yeah.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It’s also like, pretty obvious that it wasn’t “kill both Noraa and Vulture” but “Protect and call Noraa townie and kill Vulture” which says about all it needs to.

It makes little sense for me to play the way i have if i was scum here.
You're telling me that i as scum chose to hard defend my buddy when it would have been an free win to just busskill Noraa at that point?

[NorwegianboyEE]

You bussed Noraa and now you're coming up with an easy narrative to seal the victory for yourself here.

[Vulture]

It’s also like, pretty obvious that it wasn’t “kill both Noraa and Vulture” but “Protect and call Noraa townie and kill Vulture” which says about all it needs to.

It makes little sense for me to play the way i have if i was scum here.
You're telling me that i as scum chose to hard defend my buddy when it would have been an free win to just busskill Noraa at that point?

...this makes no sense and we both know it.

Yes you tried to defend Noraa and kill me for a win yesterday.

You’re accusing me of hardbussing my buddy when it would have been a free win to just kill someone yesterday?

[Vulture]

You have no rebuttal to my points about you and Noraa’s interaction and my analysis speaks for itself, back to work.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You have no rebuttal to my points about you and Noraa’s interaction and my analysis speaks for itself, back to work.

Why are you telling me to get back to work and that i have no rebuttals? That tone is really scummy.
I'm bringing up that Noraa was bussed because from my POV that is the only possible explanation here. And if STD was mafia then we would have basically lost already cus he just gonna hammer.

[NorwegianboyEE]

STD, you've already said you think i've done things i wouldn't do as scum in this game.
Ask yourself why i would choose to make the most shit play possible in ElO assuming this Noraa/Norwee world that Vulture is trying to sell you here. I literally wouldn't. I play much better than this as scum.
Unfortunately i put my trust in the wrong person yesterday, but Noraa's genuine tone is really persuasive and i didn't like Vultures tone and posts yesterday, but it seems i was right on that at least.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Though you could say i wasn't wrong because either of the two would be right.
It was S+S.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm also asking myself if Noraa's weird questioning aimed at me was intended to try to further this narrative from Vulture/Noraa somehow, because it was really odd when looking back on it.

[NorwegianboyEE]

At least i was right to trust TA. I'm mostly happy with my reads in this game.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Dragons didn’t hammer me so Dragons town.

Although this is true.

Vulture is just confirmed scum then.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I still had some slight doubts it could be STD and we were just fooling around. But no, well played Vulture.
Your scum game has gotten pretty good.

[NorwegianboyEE]

After all, Noraa didn’t look too good with the hammer back in day 1, and with their ensuing play to distance from Vulture.
Like, you’ve really outdone yourself as scum this time Ydrasse.

[Save The Dragons]

oh good

[Save The Dragons]

i'll get to this when i have the spoon for it but it may be a little bit sorry

[NorwegianboyEE]

STD , since you're here.
Could you say something that's on your mind so i know where you're at?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Just talk to me. I don't want another day where TA says nothing and just votes.

[Save The Dragons]

i'm like 90% norwee and 10% vulture

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why?

[Save The Dragons]

all vulture had to do was wait or slap a vote down on me or you if they were scum, they didn't have to bus

i think it's a weird strat if scum but i'm also wary of ydrasse so i'm not discounting it outright

[Vulture]

I’m a townie birdie this game.

In all reality, Noraa and I together would have just brute forced a win yesterday rather than going the long route. Also our interactions are pretty uh... not teamed IMO, especially the questioning pre-redtea.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I feel like shit right now ‘cause I’m sick, dwelling on Noraa’s redtea defense as TMI or something and will come back with a conclusion on if I think that or not later. Makes it way more annoying when they outright say “why would I defend redtea as scum like this”. Wifom sucks.

Back to bed for me.

Ydrasse's post here reads as if they've made their mind up from before the day. I also think Noraa's and Vulture's banter after Redtea was hammered was really unnecessary. It makes perfect sense for it to have been an long-planned buss.