Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Fin

[Ydrasse]

not trying to disappear but work + significant pain = not a lot of brain for mafia will try to pop in tonight or tomorrow but ik time limit

[Ydrasse]

idk thoughtspew

scared the worst is coasting thru quietly not giving as many thoughts but game is long and hard to think about
gooey in blue pt didn’t really do a lot w reread like voted skitter brought up some stuff about her but it wasn’t pushed super hard it’s there but neither was attempt to stop infinity from going through feels like a catch-up no real pressure
peta still town
gamma emerald feels very offended for real in blue pt too

that’s all from me for now probably going to lock in team tonight then

[Morning Tweet]

"Final Hour"

Event Rules

---

Ring the Bell 10.2

petapan, Ydrasse, Gammagooey [1]:

Gammagooey

Not Voting [3]:

petapan, Ydrasse, the worst

With 4 finalists remaining, it takes 3 votes to Ring the Bell. Teams must contain three members. If rung and entirely composed of town, town wins. Otherwise, scum wins.

[/mech]

Tick Away 10.2

Not Voting [4]:

petapan, Ydrasse, Gammagooey, the worst

With 4 finalists remaining, it takes 3 votes to Tick Away. If selected, scum instantly kills a town-aligned player. Afterwards, this option is switched to "Stop the Clock".

Tick Away is selected automatically in:

(expired on 2021-11-26 01:37:39)s

[/mech]

Crash the Party 10.2

Not Voting [4]:

petapan, Ydrasse, Gammagooey, the worst

With 4 finalists remaining, it takes 2 votes to Crash the Party. If crashed, scum wins.

[/mech]

Now playing..

♫

IDKHOW - Clusterhug

♫
                        

▶ ❚❚ ─────────────────●─────────────  1:47 / 3:11

                       

[the worst]

i don't have a lot to add! this phase is probably disproportionately easy for me to solve or something because i don't need to solve [gamma,gamma]. hit me up if y'all need me but i'm finding ggooey predictable and unconvincing.

scared the worst is coasting thru quietly not giving as many thoughts but game is long and hard to think about

basically yeah, i'm coasting.

VOTE: petapan ydrasse the worst

[Gammagooey]

i don't have a lot to add! this phase is probably disproportionately easy for me to solve or something because i don't need to solve [gamma,gamma]. hit me up if y'all need me but i'm finding ggooey predictable and unconvincing.

Unconvincing I get considering most of what I'm doing is just casing your slot. Why predictable in your opinion though? Also I don't expect you to read the whole game given its length & how close to the end of the game it is, but I would like to know what you have gone through and your general thoughts on those sections of the game.

[the worst]

I feel like a significantly easier target than Taly or Ydrasse, and you still forced a dichotomy between them yesterday based on some vague allusion that flipping the two of them would win the game only to accept the first argument to the contrary and start half-assedly pushing my slot today. getting an elim on someone and then establishing my slot as scum today is like, an extremely clear path to victory. what you're trying to paint as a read reconsideration on me & ydrasse looks like waffling about two players who you know are town, and i don't see any conviction in your reads.

I would like to know what you have gone through and your general thoughts on those sections of the game.

can you give me any guidance of what you're asking for? i've read everything since i replaced in, and have reactively commented on it. i've leafed through random parts of yours/ydra's/peta's/taly's isos and read around some quotes from peta's case on ydrasse to kinda broaden my awareness.

[Gammagooey]

I would like to know what you have gone through and your general thoughts on those sections of the game.

can you give me any guidance of what you're asking for? i've read everything since i replaced in, and have reactively commented on it. i've leafed through random parts of yours/ydra's/peta's/taly's isos and read around some quotes from peta's case on ydrasse to kinda broaden my awareness.

I was hoping for thoughts on individual events/days of the game - I haven't seen anything on your thoughts on people's play in individual events (the throne, the duel, the nomination event, the crossing), would like it see any specific thoughts on who was scum while going through those parts of your read, or what stood out to you as important in terms of how people got elim'd and why.

[the worst]

that seems like an absolute tonne of work and why would that help anyone

[Gammagooey]

that seems like an absolute tonne of work and why would that help anyone

I don't want quotes, I know that'd be an absurd amount of work

but like did any thoughts that come to mind about like 'oh hey this person being pushed by X is weird given Y' or more broad things like 'This important thing in X event was mostly because Z & A talked/pushed this' while you were reading?

[Gammagooey]

if you wanna defend yourself atp go for it i just didn't want that to be the only conversation we were having yknow

i will! but I know they're often not helpful to people actually reading the defending player (or at least like most of the time it shouldn't be for players good at both town & scum). Like as either alignment I'm cherrypicking my things here, even when I think I'm better than most about giving reasonable context for given posts, and its a lot harder to effectively convey "here's why I'm not scum" in the same way as other game opinions given the bias inherent in that.
Also putting it in spoilers just feels more like "hey interacting with this is optional!" which I like b/c arguing about why I townread myself is prob not helpful past like a single response/counter-response.

Spoiler: HQ read flip on me

I think regardless of whether you think I'm town or scum, you can agree that this post and the few afterwards were very scum-indicative for HQ. I say that I'm scumreading skitter+HQ's slot the hardest, and HQ picks out the only other name that I'm scumreading and *taking some slight comedic liberty* 'NO you can't be town because THIS THIRD PERSON you're scumreading should NEVER be left behind', despite currently scumreading skitter. Like I think it's reasonable for to not think this is a town-clearing post for me, but also I think that's pretty clear that's how she would respond to basically any hypothetical town player doing the same thing - her MO this game was lashing out at people scumreading her, her seeing me with an opinion that wants both her and her scumbuddy she's bussing to die and SCREECHING to a halt to scumread me with the first thing she thought of is fits that perfectly, seeing a town attack both her and her buddy wasn't going pacify that tendency somehow and convince her to try to play for slower townreads.

I finished rereeading through some stuff to try to read Ydrasse and Gypyx better and it was mostly not helpful. I do think I should downgrade Gyoyx/Prism from strong town to regular town read b/c most of my read came from the Prism slot and just Gypyx *efforting* but he still comes across as town to me

Ydrasse wasn't around much for pages like 50-70, kinda helped start the Galron wagon and then wasn't around for a while but also those pages were like a single real-life day so I don't think it's anything to really hold against her. Ydrasse also wasn't around a ton in blue PT which is slightly eh but most of her content there was pushing Toog which I can't really fault either.

My perfect left behind-team atm is prob skitter/Saber/Ydrasse/whoever Ydrasse wants to take down with her but I'm much more concerned with just getting skitter/saber dead atm

If Taly gets within hammer range of sending across I'll do it even though I want him to go later, but also I want to be slamming through the first 4 people once we've got the 1st person crossing.
VOTE: petapan for now

oh hey more posts. I would still push dwlee through too and be perfectly happy about it, so if more votes go in that direction I'll jump back on dwlee wagon. Gemerald is also fine would vote to cross

oh and LAST THING I probably don't have much time to post until Saturday evening except for tomorrow morning and pop-ins to change my vote as a heads-up.

Okay, lost my initial tr on this slot. Ydrasse should never be left behind.

Spoiler: that one skitter post asking Galron if she could help that peta fjgfjg'd at

I

suspect

that you didn't like the 2nd post here, but it's just skitter seeing Infinity do literally the same thing and then repeating it a bit later.

@galron is there anything i can do to help you get more engaged? honestly not much has happened so far, the main event has been gamma acting erratically and getting scumread for it, and lashing out at prism for confidently pushing him.

actually i kinda like this

I'm caught up enough I think. I just haven't found anything to really dig into. The mechanics seem the most interesting thing, but I don't think it's really the right time to talk about that, at least until we have the first challenge under our belts. My reads are awful, and I have this impression that no one's done or said anything really noteworthy. Like in Radio Buzz by this time we had several 1v1s or 1v1v1s. I see a few here, but they're junior varsity spats. I'm seeing what I think is a frustrated Gamma leading the pack, but I'm not sure why he's so scum read, which makes me think I need to go back and read the beginning of the game again, which I started doing. I do kind of agree with whomever said that thing about Ceph being similar to RB, and I think I need more than just that feeling to scum read him I think. I dunno, I'm just missing a ground hold here.

You feel very weird and like muted as compared to radio buzz. There iirc u also kinda missed fhe beginning of the game but ur contributions were p quickly p townie. Idk if the difference here is that u need more time to get into the swing pf things, or if ur just scum. Dunno how to differentiate between those universes just yet

Is there anything i can do to help you get into the game?

[the worst]

that seems like an absolute tonne of work and why would that help anyone

I don't want quotes, I know that'd be an absurd amount of work

but like did any thoughts that come to mind about like 'oh hey this person being pushed by X is weird given Y' or more broad things like 'This important thing in X event was mostly because Z & A talked/pushed this' while you were reading?

Your choosing a dichotomy of [taly,ydra] to lim yesterday strikes me as pretty wild.

[Gammagooey]

that seems like an absolute tonne of work and why would that help anyone

I don't want quotes, I know that'd be an absurd amount of work

but like did any thoughts that come to mind about like 'oh hey this person being pushed by X is weird given Y' or more broad things like 'This important thing in X event was mostly because Z & A talked/pushed this' while you were reading?

Your choosing a dichotomy of [taly,ydra] to lim yesterday strikes me as pretty wild.

peta is right in that he doesn't interact with Saber+HQ they way he did as scumbuddies - the only other option from my perspective would be putting up your slot in place of one of them which I don't get why you would find less wild.

but that's not really what I'm getting at here anyway

This game is book-length at this point, what parts of the book were boring, which parts were surprising, I'd love the most casual english/history class-style opinions that you have on what happened here.

[the worst]

yes i'd find it significantly less wild if you put up my slot which you apparently think is scum for elimination??

you're literally asking someone who caught the last 15 minutes of a movie to provide general commentary about the movie. like, i have absolutely no notion of what you want from me. i have opinions about what's happened since i've replaced in, and i have cursory knowledge of some parts of the game which i've read over while already knowing the alignments of like 3/4+ of the people involved.

i'm not going to go do busywork because you think it's something i need to do to deserve to be part of the winning team or something. i'm wary that i'm privileged by knowing the alignment of my slot given that this gamestate hinges on ydrasse & peta being town. that doesn't change the fact that picking random shit to vaguely comment about is a gigantic waste of everyone's time.

[Gammagooey]

Oh, I misinterpreted

i've read everything since i replaced in

as "I've read everything (during the time period between replacing in and now)" instead of "I've read everything (that was between replacing in and now)"

well, nevermind then

[the worst]

ah, firmly the latter.

[petapan]

scared the worst is coasting thru quietly not giving as many thoughts but game is long and hard to think about

to be fair i had the same thought but at the same time gammagooey has re-evaluated his stance on a slot i couldn't get him to take a second look at last week which can just as easily feel like a change of convenience. worst probably not too invested regardless of alignment and just taking the reins to the finish line. in some sense both are just moving themselves to my view since i made it clear i wouldn't consider you as scum and would be a pain in the ass to call scum.

why i devalue present content in ELO, place higher value on backreading

[petapan]

if you wanna defend yourself atp go for it i just didn't want that to be the only conversation we were having yknow

i will! but I know they're often not helpful to people actually reading the defending player (or at least like most of the time it shouldn't be for players good at both town & scum). Like as either alignment I'm cherrypicking my things here, even when I think I'm better than most about giving reasonable context for given posts, and its a lot harder to effectively convey "here's why I'm not scum" in the same way as other game opinions given the bias inherent in that.
Also putting it in spoilers just feels more like "hey interacting with this is optional!" which I like b/c arguing about why I townread myself is prob not helpful past like a single response/counter-response.

Spoiler: HQ read flip on me

I think regardless of whether you think I'm town or scum, you can agree that this post and the few afterwards were very scum-indicative for HQ. I say that I'm scumreading skitter+HQ's slot the hardest, and HQ picks out the only other name that I'm scumreading and *taking some slight comedic liberty* 'NO you can't be town because THIS THIRD PERSON you're scumreading should NEVER be left behind', despite currently scumreading skitter. Like I think it's reasonable for to not think this is a town-clearing post for me, but also I think that's pretty clear that's how she would respond to basically any hypothetical town player doing the same thing - her MO this game was lashing out at people scumreading her, her seeing me with an opinion that wants both her and her scumbuddy she's bussing to die and SCREECHING to a halt to scumread me with the first thing she thought of is fits that perfectly, seeing a town attack both her and her buddy wasn't going pacify that tendency somehow and convince her to try to play for slower townreads.

I finished rereeading through some stuff to try to read Ydrasse and Gypyx better and it was mostly not helpful. I do think I should downgrade Gyoyx/Prism from strong town to regular town read b/c most of my read came from the Prism slot and just Gypyx *efforting* but he still comes across as town to me

Ydrasse wasn't around much for pages like 50-70, kinda helped start the Galron wagon and then wasn't around for a while but also those pages were like a single real-life day so I don't think it's anything to really hold against her. Ydrasse also wasn't around a ton in blue PT which is slightly eh but most of her content there was pushing Toog which I can't really fault either.

My perfect left behind-team atm is prob skitter/Saber/Ydrasse/whoever Ydrasse wants to take down with her but I'm much more concerned with just getting skitter/saber dead atm

If Taly gets within hammer range of sending across I'll do it even though I want him to go later, but also I want to be slamming through the first 4 people once we've got the 1st person crossing.
VOTE: petapan for now

oh hey more posts. I would still push dwlee through too and be perfectly happy about it, so if more votes go in that direction I'll jump back on dwlee wagon. Gemerald is also fine would vote to cross

oh and LAST THING I probably don't have much time to post until Saturday evening except for tomorrow morning and pop-ins to change my vote as a heads-up.

Okay, lost my initial tr on this slot. Ydrasse should never be left behind.

Spoiler: that one skitter post asking Galron if she could help that peta fjgfjg'd at

I

suspect

that you didn't like the 2nd post here, but it's just skitter seeing Infinity do literally the same thing and then repeating it a bit later.

@galron is there anything i can do to help you get more engaged? honestly not much has happened so far, the main event has been gamma acting erratically and getting scumread for it, and lashing out at prism for confidently pushing him.

actually i kinda like this

I'm caught up enough I think. I just haven't found anything to really dig into. The mechanics seem the most interesting thing, but I don't think it's really the right time to talk about that, at least until we have the first challenge under our belts. My reads are awful, and I have this impression that no one's done or said anything really noteworthy. Like in Radio Buzz by this time we had several 1v1s or 1v1v1s. I see a few here, but they're junior varsity spats. I'm seeing what I think is a frustrated Gamma leading the pack, but I'm not sure why he's so scum read, which makes me think I need to go back and read the beginning of the game again, which I started doing. I do kind of agree with whomever said that thing about Ceph being similar to RB, and I think I need more than just that feeling to scum read him I think. I dunno, I'm just missing a ground hold here.

You feel very weird and like muted as compared to radio buzz. There iirc u also kinda missed fhe beginning of the game but ur contributions were p quickly p townie. Idk if the difference here is that u need more time to get into the swing pf things, or if ur just scum. Dunno how to differentiate between those universes just yet

Is there anything i can do to help you get into the game?

the harley read thing is in and of itself not necessariy a red flag, but the fact that two different players in the same scum slot were both attacking you when there was no likelihood of you being a candidate for elimination is a significant red flag in my view. she notably

didn't

call me scum and while different treatment can sometimes be aribtrary it feels meaningful here

and regardless of if skitter is copying that infinity post, it does not make me feel better about galron's alignment? she took a significantly softer edge with him than with other players, at least initially. later it transitioned to a full on push but that is just as easily explained as a bus

[petapan]

Spoiler: unwnd posts on saber

Ceph/Me/Myself (lol)

Leaves Saber/Ulyana/Dunn/Ydra/Taly/Cakez

Not going to sit here and say that those 5 should definitively contain a lot of scum, but I would bet two. If my points seem obvious it's because this is the angle I'm choosing to get myself into the game. My readrate is Ydra is laughably bad so maybe she'll see my replacement and see me as a free pocket. I remember not liking Saber tonally? Dunn I think I can figure out if given enough time. Cakez let me ISO him. I am also going to be playing at my full potential and just lumbering around. My passion for writing stuff that nobody will read has been stirred in me once again!

If Saber flips scum at any point in this game she's not scum with Dunnstral based on something I just read

You can consider that vice-versa

One particular post from Saber with her vote placed onto me (Galron) and a light finger pointed towards Dunn. Just seems extraordinarily misplaced and didn't seem like a distance attempt

UNVOTE:

Not sure where I'm placing this quite yet. Gut would say on Saber or SirCakez. The former seems controversial and the latter I don't wanna have another game where me and Skitter are just in disagreement but happen to be the same alignment. I was a bit taken aback but her strong words but I'm starting to think that's how she is? I'm more familiar with her towngame but don't have data on her scumgame basically.

I really want to start forming a decent town list before I start looking in the weeds. I have my Saber/Cakez thought but everywhere else seems incomplete.

Trashing my Dunn read.

I end up doing this a lot and I'm prone to give him early passes by assuming intent. The fact of the matter is though that actually reading the game I just think Dunn's behavior is tepid. Yes, that's what Dunn does. He's not a very in-your-face player but there's a lot of stuff from him that just meshes together. I don't think Dunn is afraid to be bold. I don't think Dunn chooses to be unreadable when he's green. I think he leans onto that 'is he thinking about something' type of deal more when he's red. This is not a complete 180 it's more like my reasons to townread Dunn were all assumption and tone, but contextually I can't really see where he fits.

I'm just looking for an indication of what he wants. Even the most tepid version of Dunnstral has something I can affix him with. The only thing I could gather is that he really didn't like Ceph. OK. Ceph is dead now and Dunn is still fiddling with the inbetween and I'm not sure what happens next.

That being said my "Saber/Dunn aren't aligned" idea is still floating in my head. Making associative takes and then buying into what you see can be really dangerous. I'm not afraid to make mistakes I just don't want to lose sense of reality. There's nothing besides a complete fucking literal guess with that. I get that's what you do especially without a proper flip but I digress.

Dunn, what's your read on Ydra? You two were partners in RPG so maybe you'd have an idea of what to look for?

My two reads I've talked about at the hypothetical bottom are still present just not associative. Cakez is individually scummy and I think Saber pinged the shit out of me.

My reread did..not give me any leanings and I feel an actual headache coming on when I think about how I kicked Dunn of the top of my list because I really really really really really want to form some trust and I've probably repeated that 3 times now but it is absolutely crucial to me.

My cakez read is not that he's in catchup mode. I'm not sure how that thought was lost in translation.

I was in the car thinking about how you think I'm theatrical Saber. In what way would that determine a read on me? My short answer remains but I'm pretty sure I just like to write. I lean into prose because that's what makes mafia fun to me. Thinking about concepts and wording and such. I'm capable of faking it as scum to my own credit.

I'm not trying to make some grandiose point but Dwlee vote to me just seems so flat and not really game-changing. Same thing with Toog/Gypyx really. I think I would want to use the execution for realistically a more controversial read matched with a (Toog/Gypyx) type person because I'm certain the Pooky switch is not an informed Toog/Gypyx/Dwlee groupscum decision, even if nobody has implied they think that could contain the whole groupscum.

As an aside, I don't know what people see in Saber but I also don't have the proper words at this time.

skirting around it

Who do you see as doing this rn

A lot of people. Taly? Cakez? Toog? Saber? even Shiki honestly

I mention 'hey what about Cakez/Saber they're scummy'

I get feedback of 'nah don't agree' from most people. I think I would still want those two? But I'm

literally

not in a position to be calling shots like that and I'm not egotistic enough to believe I am. I went to Infinity/You as a secondary because you were a topic I wanted more focus on and I do have gut reasons to not really like Infinity. Maybe it's my bad the way I startled you but damn. If my words are coming off ineffective I will try my best to pool everything together and start over.

I'd rather be fighting Saber because that pelt is way more spicy

Actually yeah

VOTE: Saber

I will get absolutely no support on this but don't care

The least I can bargain is that I would still love to flip Saber/Cakez

I would say at one scum there, confidently

But matching any further doesn't seem proper

Please let me kill Saber.

The townreads on her are bad.

[petapan]

Spoiler: unwnd's giant wallpost

This bracket of thoughts has the capability to be word salad. Something I wanted to write so I had a place to put my frustrations. Replacement has weighed on me. Not in a dispiriting way rather I am taking upon a game that has made motion without me. I don't really like doing the maximum if I don't have to, but I guess that's the reputation you build up when you're able to write walls. I was hoping to avoid this outcome but I may as well use it like catharsis. Peta was telling me that he didn't want my feelings and rather my analysis but I think that's a tall order. My feelings feed into my analysis as the way I play this game is trying to get into the mind of someone. I think about what

I

would do in their position. This includes scum. I think mafia is the type of game where experience over time becomes the deciding factor. I'm oscillating between trying to let myself not be stubborn and just letting go entirely.

It doesn't really need to be said but this game is hard. Pooky and Ceph are both capable townies who were killed early. Gamma was put into the chair under the pretense of elimination (from what I've read) and a lot of people were righteously convinced it was the right idea. This has flipped and caused a scramble because you had a good amount of prominent "townies" all agreeing with the outcome. Then it didn't happen.

I put townies in quotations because I don't think this would be so difficult if the team weren't involved. I mean, I guess that's obvious. My slot (Galron) was chosen by Gamma and the Stagehands intervened and killed off Pooky. Right now I am almost certain that Gamma would not chose to execute a (Townie) just to have his own team disagree and sabotage the event when he has control. Gamma is certifiably town for that alone. So what am I to think about the fact (Galron) was spared over Pooky? Not much, because nobody else seems to care. That leaves me a bit biased and feeling like I shouldn't compromise with people who can't see that Galron is not a big enough player (no offense) for Stagehands to waste one of their sabotages on. Were they afraid of clearing Gamma? Doesn't seem so because the sabotage itself already clears him in my mind.

I've had some people (shiki) question my motivations to look at Gamma's wagon than my own. Yet it's clear to me that Gamma's vote for the chair was more orchestrated than a vanity wagon on my own slot. I think scum were put in a position where they'd rather just be idiginant towards Gamma and kept him as the "elimination." I think maybe you have some stragglers who were voting me but I couldn't put it into words. That feedback goes into 'this is much harder than I want it to be' and that some prominent "townies" are scum. It's a little frustrating when people ask you for answers as if I should have them. If I'm being honest, usually scum have answers at the ready because they don't have to think about perspective. Say things that look townie and move a form of agenda and move on. There's a bit more nuance with scum who are self-aware and can fake indecision and being unsure, or are just are supremely awkward as scum and don't know how to play like you have an agenda.

I think the team probably has a mix of both. It's still not a definitive, but complete stab in the dark (I'm writing this with limited amount of homework done) I'd say something like..

Toog/Taly(?)/(Skitter/Peta)/Saber/Cakez.

This is not a herosolve. Very unlikely I have solved the game and this is the whole team. I am missing pieces but it's a start. It's a start. This is where I'd like to vote and see what comes of it. Infinity has left my mindset due to what happened with Ydrasse. I'm not touching that with a ten foot pole and I think I'm going to slot her at a comfortable null as with Ydrasse. I was convinced by her frustration but I can't objectively see it anymore and honestly looking back on it gives me bad feelings. Ydrasse's argument with me was

not

a peaking moment of where she finally shows how town she is. Ydrasse is capable of being manipulative and I don't want that attitude put onto me. It doesn't matter what anyone believes-- I was only giving her olive branches. Irremedably frustrating to have my inentions be twisted and then be dogpiled by people who can't let go of the ghost of Galron and are putting shit onto me.

...Moving on.

My angle on Toog is that their voting patterns suck. I don't see them as carefree or just trying different shit for the fun of it. Their vote on me is a literal call for bloodshed and that's not fitting for someone typically more even keel. Meta is not fully indicative I just think you ask yourself where Toog belongs in this game. I vehemently disagree with Skitter's take that Toog doesn't care because I think it's the opposite. The votes and 'jeez! what is everyone doing!?' attitude is a displaced scum who doesn't know what to do themselves. So they fake motivation in ways to rush decisions while having nothing to do with them. There's no sleuthing at all even if Toog is not exactly a detective. I am getting zero essence from them that they care about what the outcome of my elimination means or anything for that matter.

Taly is a big question mark for me because they don't fit in my mind. This is a curious (?) where I don't think they're townie but also not null. They're a hard elimination and in my absolute tinfoil paranoia I think they're being protected by scum. I have less on the motivations of why, but I feel their presence to not be something that relieves me. Maybe it's their nature to weird, but I can't townread weird because something tells me that Taly is probably decent at his own weirdness and using it as a means to be townread. There's nothing entirely wrong with his approach but that alone makes me question because it is presented in such a processed and orderly manner where every appearance by him is very deliberate. It would be townie in another game but not this one, and not based on the events that have happened.

Skitter/Peta need to get solved eventually. I am putting these two here because they're involved in the current state of the game. Peta was one of the louder voices about Gamma and Skitter was on my slot. Don't really think these two are aligned and were working different angles of the game. I would love to trust both of them but I do not. I think right now I would give Peta more favor than Skitter. I was a little pissy about him voting me but I also appreciated that he wasn't locked into it. I'm weary but if he's just having another good scumgame then I doubt I have the means to topple it. Least not right now. These two are the most far in terms of..viability. Viable to be voted out or eliminated. It's too much of a risk and it's just not going to happen anytime soon. So why talk about them at all? Dunno. It helps. That's all these paragraphs have been. It's helping me and focusing me.

Anyways, about Skitter. I just disagree with her. I disagree with her a lot and often. Does disagreement need to be the reason why she is scum? No. No I didn't want to believe that, and I was trying to find compromise and not end up in a situation like Siege where I backed out of my townread of her because we came to a disagreement. I think Skitter is very not afraid to put her stake in things but that makes it dangerous because I've seen her do so to dissuade town. It's just this dismissive attitude that is rubbing me wrong and I wish it didn't.

Saber is scum. I feel it in my bones. I have less words about this but goddamn. I have not felt good about one fucking post they made. It's so agenda-driven and handpicked out of the right arguments to make at the right time. It's calculated and not in the sense of a townie who is just making use of their time. It's calculated to where it's always just 'doing enough' and no more. That's my problem. She does enough to not be scrutinized but goes no further. It's missing the blemishes that make up townies where they don't know the answers. It's the exact fucking thing I look for and at this rate? I think I'm pretty damn good at recognizing it. She had just the right amount of push onto me and reason to vote me and now she's backstage in her PT because job is done. Conversation and interaction with her even from an outside perspective just read like someone who is trying to sell you on the appearance of a townie. And you're all fucking buying it and it annoys me.

Cakez I'm going to withhold what I think because apparently Peta has a case and there doesn't need to be two cases. He's not really a developed scum so if Peta is not a stagehand I'll probably just sheep his thoughts.

There is my unfiltered and complete dump of thoughts. I could probably make more but I digress. I don't think I like playing at 'I suspect all these people' but the good news is that I acquired some townreads and I'm starting to believe in my own vision of how this game is playing out. Now it's just a matter of letting it lie and see if it comes true or not, and stopping any momentum scum has made.

mostly, i find myself looking at this and wondering what i ever saw in it

[the worst]

i'm definitely chillin yeah - i can talk very-late-game replacement theory post-game if we want. just kinda another page on the pile of stuff that doesn't help anyone solve fmpov.

[the worst]

just moving themselves to my view

didn't quite catch this happening like, in the heat of the moment, but it's definitely true.

[Gammagooey]

Eh one last thing to go over, don't think it'll be as convincing as the previous bits but I do think it still points fairly strongly towards Gemerald-scum. I probably won't be around much tomorrow+Thursday, but deadline for Tick Away hits a little after midnight Thursday so I'll try to be around at least a few hours before that - I might not be 'til 8 or 9 my time though.

p-edit: hey peta & the worst, I'm probably going to bed in like 15 min. putting together all the quotes for this took longer than I expected.

The crossing is the first event where I think everyone had to put out multiple scum reads at once and actually act on them. Peta already had several, if not just *most* of the quotes in the spoiler in a quotewall already last event, so into spoiler tags they're going. Post-note: pulled out like one quote that I had a unique take on and a few snippets, the spoiler has many more quotes with a lot more contextual quotes for what Gemerald is saying to Harley+about his crossing reads.
I'm putting the same or close to the same commentary from me outside the spoiler as inside, inside it'll just be easier to follow along inside with the individual quotes they're referencing.

Gemerald mentions early on that he wants to dictate the crossing to some extent, which seems p. reasonable given that he got overruled on the infinity nom+elim in the last event. He talks to some people (I've just included quotes from him & Harley between his early event statement+his first crossing readslist, but there is more than that, he talks to just about everyone who was around early in that event) and eventually comes down with this:

HURT: toog, gypyx, dwlee, (harley/cakez)

I don't really feel like harley feels like Gemerald's 4th/5th scum read that could mayyybe be left out given how he's interacting with her, but tbf I can also see theoretical-town Gemerald sticking her at the end to give her a chance and try to keep her interacting with him in general and the game as a whole, so that bit's shrugworthy.
The Gypyx read is pretty out of nowhere though. Like I don't see any indication that it exists before the crossing event. Gemerald shoots a quick question at Gypyx at the start of it that was already answered, and his reason for the Gypyx read is

When I started asserting my confidence in town!infinity Gypyx leapt to the idea I had an inno on infinity as a result of being spared as town. I did not, but I believe him thinking that might have been a slip of the tongue in a sense, as scum would know

some

reward had occurred.

which feels very weak to have him as a scumread above either of Dwlee or Harley who he's been actively suspecting recently, and is probably just slid in there to give a reason to put Harley just on the end of the suspect list.


One more obvious point is that skitter is still on the live list, and one particular post that seems bad in regards to that is asking Taly to check his math and double check that the 8 he's implying should live are really the 8 he wants - it's pretty clear I think from his other posts around then that he wants skitter to live, but instead of saying that directly again he's trying to nudge Taly into reconsidering on skitter without directly defending her.

Still unsure of my order.

I know I want

ydra/peta/gammagooey

to cross later than sooner but if we go with

Toog's

plan, then I end up with less than 4 being uncrowded.

Mmm.

the math on this seems wrong
(me, toog, dwlee, cakez) + (ydra, peta, ggy) + you = 8 people crossing, leaving (ulya, skitts, HQ, gypyx)
is there anyone in that last group you TR? If not I'm gonna mark those down as the ones you don't want to cross so I can have an entry from you in my spreadsheet I'm using to math out the consensus of who gets left out

Spoiler: buncha Gemerald crossing posts

Gemerald mentions early on that he wants to dictate the crossing to some extent, which seems p. reasonable given that he got overruled on the infinity nom+elim in the last event.

The 8 to cross should go in scummiest -> towniest order

And who determines how scummy people are?

me

fuck no
I am actively invoking my right to dictate things to some extent. I'll probably take some input on the crossing order, but there's basically no chance I fold on any of the people I want left out

Gemerald mentions early on that he wants to dictate the crossing to some extent, which seems p. reasonable given that he got overruled on the infinity nom+elim in the last event. He talks to some people (I've just included quotes from him & Harley between his early event statement+his first crossing readslist, but there is more than that, he talks to just about everyone who was around early in that event) and eventually comes down with this:
HURT: toog, gypyx, dwlee, (harley/cakez)

Harley did you read at all during the break? I feel like you haven’t really shown much initiative in really making stuff happen

HQ, I do like your Dunn analysis, but I kinda see more from you as well

Here's my reasoning: If Gypyx is town, Harley has a good chance of being scum. If Harley is town then the other way around. Makes sense to put both in then

Very simple, you flip me first because I will flip town and then my reads will get taken seriously. It seems that few people are willing to listen to me while I’m alive, so my reads will get the respect they didn’t once I’m dead and I’m good with that.

???
Dwlee is literally trying to flip both you and your strongest SR
Why this attitude?

HQ I’d like if you could engage me here

Let’s start with this
What do you think of my actions and rationale during the first part of event 2?

@Harley Quinn

HQ I’d like if you could engage me here

What do you want me to say? My predecessor was being an idiot, I’m getting sr for entirely nia things and I’m like over it. I just don’t see the point of continuing to bang my head against a brick wall.

That’s not what’s going on IMO, I feel like a decent chunk of people are willing to give you a chance
It’s just that the content you’ve chosen to provide hasn’t really felt like what you should be giving

Let’s start with this
What do you think of my actions and rationale during the first part of event 2?

@Harley Quinn

It would really help me if you linked or quoted the specific posts your referencing.

Gamma

@HQ I want you to read my posting in between post 1723 and 1900 and say what you think of it

Strong TRs: (GE, peta, Taly)
Weak TRs: (skitter, Ggy)
In flux: (ydrasse, ulyana)
Weak SRs: (cakez, HQ)
Strong SRs: (dwlee, gypyx, toog)

This is where my reads are basically at atp. Up until just recently cakez and gypyx were switched, but I'm heeding peta a little bit on cakez and I remembered something gypyx posted in the blue room that pings quite a bit now that infinity has flipped town.

HURT: toog, gypyx, dwlee, (harley/cakez)

my desired order would be something like

(whichever of cakez/HQ isn't left out)
ulyana
ydrasse
(skitter+Ggy in either order)
Taly
(me+Peta in either order)

if we wanna do most to least towny for the crossing, basically just flip this order

there's also a good bit I don't like from cakez rn so he's still in my lower tiers

go into it?

I don't like how he went through events 3 and 4 pretty much at all
I'm also worried about how his reads sound, it's a case of "seems logical but not in a definitively town sense", which I had towards cephrir in Radio Buzz
there's another slot I'm of that opinion towards in this game as well somewhat, but I'm more willing to trust that person than I am cakez

I don't really feel like harley feels like Gemerald's 4th/5th scum read that could mayyybe be left out given how he's interacting with her, but tbf I can also see theoretical-town Gemerald sticking her at the end to give her a chance and try to keep her interacting with him in general and the game as a whole, so that bit's shrugworthy.
The Gypyx read is pretty out of nowhere though. Like I don't see any indication that it exists before the crossing event. Gemerald shoots a quick question at Gypyx at the start of it that was already answered, and his reason for the Gypyx read is

When I started asserting my confidence in town!infinity Gypyx leapt to the idea I had an inno on infinity as a result of being spared as town. I did not, but I believe him thinking that might have been a slip of the tongue in a sense, as scum would know

some

reward had occurred.

which feels very weak to have him as a scumread above either of Dwlee or Harley who he's been actively suspecting recently, and is probably just slid in there to give a reason to put Harley just on the end of the suspect list.
----------------------------------

This post seems weird in retrospect
Gypyx seemed conscious that I was getting wagoned earlier and of some of the circumstances behind it, why would things have changed midway through?

i'm not sure what's this post exactly supposed to mean, could you like be more clear?

Why were you asking about the wagon on me when I think it should've been clear the meaning of it from what you'd already seen?

I remembered something gypyx posted in the blue room that pings quite a bit now that infinity has flipped town.

i think i know what you're talking about from gypyx but can you go into it?

When I started asserting my confidence in town!infinity Gypyx leapt to the idea I had an inno on infinity as a result of being spared as town. I did not, but I believe him thinking that might have been a slip of the tongue in a sense, as scum would know

some

reward had occurred. My belief for what the reward is, which I might have covered prior, is that the spinning of the barrel in the duel being true random was it.

---------------

One more obvious point is that skitter is still on the live list, and one particular post that seems bad in regards to that is asking Taly to check his math and double check that the 8 he's implying should live are really the 8 he wants - it's pretty clear I think from his other posts around then that he wants skitter to live, but instead of saying that directly again he's trying to nudge Taly into reconsidering on skitter without directly defending her.

Here ya go.

My first 4 across would be Cakez, dwlee, Gamma, and then myself, in that order. If no one dies, and game isn't over, well, we at least have something to talk about.

First plan you've given this event that I'm actually pretty OK with.

I’m not. I’d really like to get my top TRs across (myself, peta, Taly, skitter, Ggy)
This plan only just leaves enough room for them and I’d really rather purge as many of my actual SRs as possible rather than people I’m just somewhat worried about atp

HURT: toog, gypyx, dwlee, (harley/cakez)

my desired order would be something like

(whichever of cakez/HQ isn't left out)
ulyana
ydrasse
(skitter+Ggy in either order)
Taly
(me+Peta in either order)

Why unsure on

HQ/Cakez

?

HQ has been posting a fair amount and working to rectify things wrt her slot, but I feel like she's not doing the exact right things, and her early posting kinda doesn't sit right with me.
I dislike how Cakez was like "my reads have been good this game" post-Dunn flip in an attempt to push infinity when he was pretty confidently SRing Cephrir, and that ended up wrong. I'm willing to give peta some credit for the Dunn associatives though, it's just not enough and there's also a spiteful part of me that wants to disregard it because my infinity townread was dismissed so readily when I gave it in the blue room. But I don't want to be that petty, so I'm giving the TR some due.

Still unsure of my order.

I know I want

ydra/peta/gammagooey

to cross later than sooner but if we go with

Toog's

plan, then I end up with less than 4 being uncrowded.

Mmm.

the math on this seems wrong
(me, toog, dwlee, cakez) + (ydra, peta, ggy) + you = 8 people crossing, leaving (ulya, skitts, HQ, gypyx)
is there anyone in that last group you TR? If not I'm gonna mark those down as the ones you don't want to cross so I can have an entry from you in my spreadsheet I'm using to math out the consensus of who gets left out

scummish: Toog, Saber, Ydrasse
fight me scummo: Skitter

@gammagooey

are you still thinking this?

(you/skitter) 1 here
toog
gypyx (?)

i trust cakez gamma harley taly
maybe ulyana maaaaybe dwlee
i want to believe goolord is town

are you good marking down (toog, peta, skitter, gypyx) as your 4 to kill?

I forgot about gammagooey. Put him in the first four with HQ, Cakez, and myself. The scumspect lineup.

OKAY STOP.
I think I’ve heard enough from you at least for now. Stop posting for like an hour.

Well, I think you and dwlee both agreed to be in the bottom four together, lol. The 4 who stay behind should have the most weight on who goes forward, if you think that might make it fair, but in all reality, the 4 most town read players will occupy those spots, and there will either be a game over win, or a dead player who's reads might better influence the last 4 as well.

NO WE DIDN’T
Our conversation progressed past that to a split pool idea, and even then I’ve since moved on to trying to do it mathematically.
Do you not realize if someone crosses that should otherwise get left behind, someone else has to stay behind in their place? Or do you just not care?

Well I think you need to get your grubby little paws out of the dip
It really seems like you’re trying to test me by seeing how bad a plan you can get away with. I will not abide!

@toog In this game, yes that’s accurate (though that post looks loaded to suggest I’m scum)
I think you trying to help is good, but your plans do seem very scum-adjacent. I think Taly has a very good idea in having players who are at each other’s throats but have a good number of people TRing them should cross early so either one can get resolved by getting killed or there can be confirmed scum in a set or town just wins
I think there’s like 3 of those pairs atm (me/Dwlee, gooey/skitts, ulyana/Cakez)
Obviously only two of those can be a part of this plan for now (if 4 go across without a kill and the game isn’t won yet we can discuss sending over the last pair maybe)
Actually writing that I realized that the way MT worded things when it was asked earlier might put a spanner in the works

I'm ok with

cakez/ulya/gamma/dwlee

being the first crossers, I mean, I think it's very possible you're all town.

I don't think I can sign off on this just yet.
When I just run it by number of times someone said they were okay leaving someone behind, this is what I get

Gamma, peta - 1 vote to not cross
Taly, Dwlee, gooey, ydra - 2 votes to not cross
ulyana, cakez, skitter - 3 votes to not cross
gypyx - 6 votes to not cross
harley, toog - 7 votes to not cross

so the consensus seems to be that 3 out of 4 of the folks who shouldn't be crossing are harley, toog, and gypyx. The challenge is who the fourth should be. All of the people with 3 people voting to leave behind are also people who are in a 1v1 and are thus people we'd want to cross in the first 4. A first 6 plan is out of the question I think, as that would mandate leaving behind a 2 vote person. So I can't really in good conscience make the decision on my own. I've tried to think my way out of this block but nothing feels right.

[petapan]

the reads on skitter and saber both really say nothing much at all

this is a game where gamma emerald has a more coherent and sensible explanation for a scumread on saber than unwnd, which i feel should not happen if unwnd is town. he barely explained the read and mostly left it to formless whining which makes me feel like he didn't really want to convince people. i suppose it's not really out of his townrange but it doesn't inspire confidence.

in particular the "you're all fucking buying it" line at the end feels a little rich. sort of similar parallels to HQ/TA pointing the finger at gammagooey. feels entirely possible he was the designated bus who wound up getting pivoted off of by town. if i had to guess who would be more likely to bus on day 1, research says it's skitter. the interactions between saber and unwnd/gammagooey in the blue room don't inspire confidence. neither does skitter compromising off her supposed top scumread to vote a town. the part earlier in the game where she backed off on unwnd talking about how she may be tunneled only to jump back on when he came out losing the argument with ydrasse has parallels in her past scumgames - if her teammate gets in a heated argument she usually feels the need to position herself on the "right" side of the exchange and i feel like that's what happened here

there's too many troublesome data points and not enough to actually redeem the slot. what do i have? unwnd's AtE? well within range. gammagooey being right on both scum? in a game where most of the town were somewhat confused in their reads that feels

less

good.

and that brings me to kind of a cheap thought - there's this weird continuity of reads across unwnd/gammagooey. am i to believe two players of different minds both got the same exact 2 members of the scumteam when most of the game struggled to piece it together? it strains credulity. i see similarities with saber/hq/ta all pushing the slot even as it moves out of eliminatable territory. to me it just looks like scum bussing each other at all costs

[petapan]

i'm definitely chillin yeah - i can talk very-late-game replacement theory post-game if we want. just kinda another page on the pile of stuff that doesn't help anyone solve fmpov.

i mean, that feels like an expression of personal preference more than anything else, you know?

i would be going hard as hell in that position but i am obviously a weirdo who cares too much and looks at games when they're in 4p/3p just to see if i can guess who the last scum is. for other people i accept that they're just along for the ride and aren't going to make waves

[petapan]

i'm going to give gamma emerald a look over again tonight, trying to get big picture stuff rather than reading selectively, will talk with ydrasse when she's on, then (hopefully) vote