Anything uPick (Endgame)

[Good Luck Buddy]

theres a whole argument i will have post game on whether NK15 is gamethrowing or not. But for time being i hope we can all in general (this means i should probably stop arguing with him) should ignore him.

[jjh927]

Okay I have double checked and I was incorrect. I said "he has based any other reads", when in fact the use of plural here is misleading. I should have referred to his singular other read.

[Good Luck Buddy]

The whole of day 1 translates to NK15 having 1 extremely questionable read and he has based any other reads he has off of that first one

I maintain that the key difference between NK15's scumgame here and NK15's scumgame elsewhere is that we couldn't elim him on day 1

I would argue Nk15 clearly has came in here with a read he preordained and then went back to justify that read rather than first looking for evidence to come to conclusion.

and i would again say. I don't think that being clearly the case imo, tells you anything on alignment.
So....if we have anyone who can possibly kill with actions....i direct u to Nk15. Lets move on

[Cheeky Wings]

Then what is a reliable way to read

NK15

if not his reads?

The thought progression or lack there of, nuance or lack there of, conviction or lack there of. If I limmed ever player in every game I’ve been in with wrong reads, scum would win every single game. The question you need to be asking yourself is: does the player have conviction in those reads and can he express those reads in a logical and nuanced way with clear thought progression?

Only the best scumplayers are capable of faking that and NK15 isn’t anywhere near that level of scumplay. That’s why he’s town here.

ISO him in Stumps. I think the difference between his play in this game vs Stumps is very obvious.

[Good Luck Buddy]

My scumread on him began Page 2, adjust your expectations man

I refuse, u had plenty of time to draft that out, revised, edited. Sent for peer review for the birds to give feedback. Then published as a master thesis

[Good Luck Buddy]

i feel like any even half assed scum player can replicate Nk15 play here without any trouble. To say it takes a master scum player to fake this is really underselling good scum play

[Cheeky Wings]

The whole of day 1 translates to NK15 having 1 extremely questionable read and he has based any other reads he has off of that first one

I maintain that the key difference between NK15's scumgame here and NK15's scumgame elsewhere is that we couldn't elim him on day 1

If I thought he sounded anything here like he did in Stumps, I would be pushing him > Victorine. He doesn’t sound fake here and he absolutely did in Stumps.

I obviously disagree with his read on GLB but I think it’s believable. You’re not getting what I’m saying I think.

[Good Luck Buddy]

ive seen good scum players case me when i was town and not only made me believe they believed their case, but made me think they had really good arguments that were almost bulletproof.

[jjh927]

You were scum in stumps and you aren't able to mentally tune oout that you literally knew he was scum the whole time he was posting

[Cheeky Wings]

i feel like any even half assed scum player can replicate Nk15 play here without any trouble. To say it takes a master scum player to fake this is really underselling good scum play

Do you honestly think NK15 suddenly became a decent scumplayer? Can you find any scumgames of his where he was able to do this?

Or was he just that terrible in Stumps only and that was somehow an anomaly?

[Cheeky Wings]

You were scum in stumps and you aren't able to mentally tune oout that you literally knew he was scum the whole time he was posting

I don’t get your point?

[jjh927]

You think he was worse in that game because while you were playing it you knew he was scum the whole time

[Good Luck Buddy]

i feel like any even half assed scum player can replicate Nk15 play here without any trouble. To say it takes a master scum player to fake this is really underselling good scum play

Do you honestly think NK15 suddenly became a decent scumplayer? Can you find any scumgames of his where he was able to do this?

Or was he just that terrible in Stumps only and that was somehow an anomaly?

i never said he became decent. I don't even know if he is scum. I just know he isn't arguing in good faith and it shows to me.

u telling me he is talking with conviction is bullshit and u should know better tbh.

[Cheeky Wings]

You think he was worse in that game because while you were playing it you knew he was scum the whole time

No because in FFIV I probably would have null to tl scum!Noraa had I actually been town in that but I’d already be accusing NK15 if he sounded anything like he did in Stumps.

So prove me wrong then, find me some NK15 scumgames where he sounds similar to here and I’ll reconsider.

[jjh927]

Tempted to link townstumps mafia

[jjh927]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=85398

There's a game

[Cheeky Wings]

i feel like any even half assed scum player can replicate Nk15 play here without any trouble. To say it takes a master scum player to fake this is really underselling good scum play

Do you honestly think NK15 suddenly became a decent scumplayer? Can you find any scumgames of his where he was able to do this?

Or was he just that terrible in Stumps only and that was somehow an anomaly?

i never said he became decent. I don't even know if he is scum. I just know he isn't arguing in good faith and it shows to me.

u telling me he is talking with conviction is bullshit and u should know better tbh.

What makes you think he isn’t though? Because his read on you is bad? What makes you so certain he’s scum instead of wrong town?

[jjh927]

I think the REALLY obvious thing that makes this current game scum!NK15 is that he doesn't care about looking for town

He looks for singular reasons that players can be scum
There is nothing beyond that.

[Good Luck Buddy]

: does the player have conviction in those reads and can he express those reads in a logical and nuanced way with clear thought progression?

like no. The answer to this is just hell no.

Look, I try my best when someone scumreads me to figure out the genuineness of that to best of my ability and that is like one of the things i think im better at when it comes to scumhunting. I think i can figure out when town is just worng on me and when its bs. I smell all sort of bs. If when i am wrong on this its usually because i gave too much leeway to a scum player, rather than being wrong on a town player who was misguided on me.

Evertyhing from nk15 tells me. This person made a conclusion, now is retroactively justifying it. Maybe he is scum and decides that pushing me will get townreads for hot takes. i have no idea.

The reason for why i said it was town is because given Nk15 history. He sabotages his team every game. So how do i go from that, to saying him pushing me is somehow sabotaging his team? Well unless he was doing so to protect victorine (which si ????) then i don't see it. So i go with, he is town sabotaging us. Is that compelling? Probably not.

[jjh927]

He doesn't need a developed case on why someone could be scum. He wants 1 reason so that he can say "GLB is scum because he was shading Ircher while voting Victorine" and stick to his line on that

He isn't interested in finding players who are town because he is aligned with the mafia

[Taly]

mmm pumpkin spice coffee is tasty

[Good Luck Buddy]

mmm pumpkin spice coffee is tasty

coffee is gross. fite me

[Taly]

mmm pumpkin spice coffee is tasty

coffee is gross. fite me

NO U, fire breathing kitties are gross

[Cheeky Wings]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=85398

There's a game

Okay he obviously played alot better here than in Stumps but pretty much most of his reads as in Stumps look febcesitty or hedgey. I think that’s the difference. We’ll see. If you’re right, you’ll get a huge mea culpa from me and if I’m right I expect the same.

I am less certain after reading that so I won’t fight you or GLB on that. However, I still think I’m probably right.

[Good Luck Buddy]

coffee is not only gross but should have been banned by the geneva convention