open 841: concgratulations to the winners and losers

[Andante]

Scum theater. But, I feel like I'm getting too conf biased (around your slot) because I really think you are scum. I'm starting to build a narrative that makes you scum regardless of other alignments(nsg/skitter), and I don't think that is very good. Maybe you are scum, but I don't want to tunnel at this point.

This post. feels too much like something scum would say. like a "ok.. backing off on my push on you.. cause I know you're town... and this isn't working for me" those are definitely the vibes I get from that post.

[Andante]

on the subject, what's your impression of how you've played this game? do you think you've played towny, scummy, neutral / you've been playing resembling your typical towngame / scumgame?

i think i've been playing scummy, but my play so far here doesn't really resemble either of my typical towngames or scumgames.

generally, what makes me townie and what mostly makes my towngames is gut reads, in-moment thoughts, and feeling mostly relaxed and natural (and townbloc building, but that's follows after reads, obviously). now, the gut reads and thoughts aren't present because this game feels like mud currently and i've gotten very little from it so far. and, i'm aware i'm sounding a bit off tonally, mostly around iv, because this is like the 4th game in recent times where we start off with "r u scum though" and it's gotten repetitive.

the reason why i say this doesn't resemble either of my games is because i'm not that terrible at... faking my towngame, especially early. if i had to, i think i would be able to make up some "reads" that i'm not naturally getting right now.

the impression i've gotten from seeing you play in my games is that you would look for things like Actual Game Related Thoughts in my play, and considering i've given the bare minimum so far... your read makes sense.

it's not really just game related thoughts. that's mostly a personality / playstyle thing, i think. i think that, correctly or incorrectly, i read you similar to how i used to read skygazer (do you know who that is??). when skygazer was scum, even when she would force herself to give reads and interact, it still seemed sort of forced, and like she wasn't really interested in it and was just doing it to get posts out there.

you don't have to have reads yet – aside from the thoughts that i sort of forced myself to get out there, i really don't have all that many. if you are town, i would say just take your time. i personally think it's the best way to get reads and i think it would help you be readable.

This is another post that I'm like, "This sounds odd"
northside goes: "How do you think you've played this game" - ok, whatever, nothing odd there
dats answers
northside goes: "you don't have to have reads yet"
like, northside's answer to dats talking about how he's been playing, it's just weird... I'm not even sure I understand what northside is saying, so like idk if I tr/sr this, this entire page has a lot of odd stuff so I really want to look at it, but this post? I don't even know what to call it

[northsidegal]

what about that interaction seems like scum theater?

You enter the thread with some light scumreads on me and Datisi. Datisi said your scumread on him made sense and then you guys bounced back and forth

and it looks like you don't scumread him that much anymore

.

if that's the impression that i've given off then i suppose that's my bad – nothing about my read on datisi has changed.

i mean sure but i didn't know what her scumgame looked like last time either, and i correctly townread her there, and now she looks the same

so she can totally wow me for sure but right now when i have like 3.5 reads i'm kinda ok townbinning her for now and revisiting later

mm, i'm not sure that this logic really follows. say, for instance, that i townread someone in another game because they capitalize the first letter of their sentences and i think that this makes them town, and they do in fact turn out to be town. the fact that they turned out to be town that game is really only weak evidence that my tell was correct (and of course this was a deliberately contrived example of a silly tell for the purposes of illustrating a point). of course, it's possible to notice a pattern among town games which is broken and then take that to be evidence of someone being scum (e.g. someone hyperposts and is town in every game you see them in and then is suddenly not interested), but even still i suppose the point that i'm trying to get across is that you still need some kind of relevant body of work for reference and it just seems strange to me that you take one game as sufficient for that.

[Andante]

I didn't like skitter's read on Datisi, and I was also thinking that skitter wouldn't make a read like that on her buddy. So that potentially indicated Datisi as townie. But I had no reason to suspect skitter, then I would scumread that interaction between nsg and Datisi.

Why are we having anyone as lock scum this early? Cause reads based on interactions only work when you have strong scumreads, and unless I missed something, I don't think anyone is a strong sr yet??

[skitter30]

yes i understand that i haven't seen her scumgame but this is what her towngame looked like last time and townreading her for those reasons worked, so when she's exhibiting the same behaviors that i found townie, i find it townie again

again maybe she can emulate it but the actual behaviors i find townie, so i'm townreading it

i'll reassess later if necessary but like i said given that i don't have a lot of reads i'm ok with this one for now

like it isn't exactly a meta read, more like 'she's doing townie stuff, and last time townreading her on these things worked so it makes sense to approach it the same way this time'

[northsidegal]

This is another post that I'm like, "This sounds odd"
northside goes: "How do you think you've played this game" - ok, whatever, nothing odd there
dats answers
northside goes: "you don't have to have reads yet"
like, northside's answer to dats talking about how he's been playing, it's just weird... I'm not even sure I understand what northside is saying, so like idk if I tr/sr this, this entire page has a lot of odd stuff so I really want to look at it, but this post? I don't even know what to call it

Take a look at this quote:

the impression i've gotten from seeing you play in my games is that you would look for things like Actual Game Related Thoughts in my play, and considering i've given the bare minimum so far... your read makes sense.

Datisi seemed to indicate here that he believes my scumread on him was because of him not having very many game related thoughts (or reads) so far. This isn't really the primary reason behind my read.

Me saying "you don't need to have reads yet" meant a few different things. The first was trying to illustrate that that wasn't the primary reason behind my read (as I began arguing in the first line of my post there). My scumread isn't about "needing to have reads at this point", or anything like that, and that's sort of what I was trying to say. The second was sort of just a genuine point, in the case that Datisi is town. I don't think that any townie should force themselves to have reads – in my experience, the best reads are formed by sitting back and just seeing what you can find rather than actively trying to force things. Of course, some people might call this too passive or say that it lets yourself get drowned out, but it's just my genuine philosophy.

Saying "you don't need to have reads yet" isn't some roundabout way of townreading Datisi, because it was never a reason for my scumread in the first place.

[Andante]

found it difficult to believe (or i suppose just surprising) that skitter didn't know about SS's always pick nine thing (as she seemed to indicate in one post) but i couldn't find any evidence to the contrary in the very short amount of time i spent looking for it. i'm also curious to hear about skitter's experience with scum!andante which i recall she indicated she had – what was that game like, and what's your impression of how scum andante plays / differs from town andante?

- didn't notice or realize about the 9 thing
- i dont have any experience with scum-andante, but i do have experience with town-andante, and this is it imo. Namely, the really qucik real-time interactions with real time reassessment and responses based on what other people are saying. I havent seen scum-her, but i would imagine its a little hard for scum-her to fake

She's from EM so the quick realtime responses are extremely null for her and not a good metric to read her on. Better to read her on whether the cases she pushes are pure bullshit or not.

Why are you trying to be like "she's from EM so your reasoning to tr her is bad" EM died a year ago... I've had a year of playing on this site... Trying to be like "so back on this site that doesn't exist" feels like you're not trying to be helpful to town. Skitter thinks I'm town, gave a valid reason, I'd probably TR myself this game too, and instead of having anything to counter, like "hmmm I SR this stuff from andante" it's trying to bring up something irrelevant... which really doesn't feel like something town would do

[Andante]

She's from EM so the quick realtime responses are extremely null for her and not a good metric to read her on. Better to read her on whether the cases she pushes are pure bullshit or not.

Oh i didnt know that. Well it worked to townread her last time so maybe this isnt aa strong a reason as i thought but i think she's still town

I mean, if you're so concerned and need a scum game, there's the Fish normal game, I was scum and endgamed there, but I really don't think meta is needed to read me lol

[skitter30]

generally, what makes me townie and what mostly makes my towngames is gut reads, in-moment thoughts, and feeling mostly relaxed and natural

(and townbloc building, but that's follows after reads, obviously). now, the gut reads and thoughts aren't present because this game feels like mud currently and i've gotten very little from it so far. and, i'm aware i'm sounding a bit off tonally, mostly around iv, because this is like the 4th game in recent times where we start off with "r u scum though" and it's gotten repetitive.

also, do you not think you're doing this?

[Andante]

She's from EM so the quick realtime responses are extremely null for her and not a good metric to read her on. Better to read her on whether the cases she pushes are pure bullshit or not.

Oh i didnt know that. Well it worked to townread her last time so maybe this isnt aa strong a reason as i thought but i think she's still town

without even necessarily disagreeing with the townread, if you don't know what someone is capable of as scum, aren't you worried that they might be more skillful than you anticipated? andante has quite a lot of games completed from a quick look that i took and so she's not exactly a newbie either

Ummm I think my town games speak for themselves lol uhhh the games here... most games are things I've replaced into, but why iseveryone so concerned about scum!Andante?? I literally die tonight scum knows I'm a pr lol plus I've actually been doing stuff, so we're not entertaining this andante!scum idea

[Andante]

i mean sure but i didn't know what her scumgame looked like last time either, and i correctly townread her there, and now she looks the same

so she can totally wow me for sure but right now when i have like 3.5 reads i'm kinda ok townbinning her for now and revisiting later

skitter is still town

[Andante]

This is another post that I'm like, "This sounds odd"
northside goes: "How do you think you've played this game" - ok, whatever, nothing odd there
dats answers
northside goes: "you don't have to have reads yet"
like, northside's answer to dats talking about how he's been playing, it's just weird... I'm not even sure I understand what northside is saying, so like idk if I tr/sr this, this entire page has a lot of odd stuff so I really want to look at it, but this post? I don't even know what to call it

Take a look at this quote:

the impression i've gotten from seeing you play in my games is that you would look for things like Actual Game Related Thoughts in my play, and considering i've given the bare minimum so far... your read makes sense.

Datisi seemed to indicate here that he believes my scumread on him was because of him not having very many game related thoughts (or reads) so far. This isn't really the primary reason behind my read.

Me saying "you don't need to have reads yet" meant a few different things. The first was trying to illustrate that that wasn't the primary reason behind my read (as I began arguing in the first line of my post there). My scumread isn't about "needing to have reads at this point", or anything like that, and that's sort of what I was trying to say. The second was sort of just a genuine point, in the case that Datisi is town. I don't think that any townie should force themselves to have reads – in my experience, the best reads are formed by sitting back and just seeing what you can find rather than actively trying to force things. Of course, some people might call this too passive or say that it lets yourself get drowned out, but it's just my genuine philosophy.

Saying "you don't need to have reads yet" isn't some roundabout way of townreading Datisi, because it was never a reason for my scumread in the first place.

I'm not really following, it might make sense if I look back on it later, it's not looking like something I'm gonna sr you for, the wording/whatnot was tripping me up, but that entire page to me was like "wtf is happening??" so my mind is a tad fried.

[Andante]

Ok, now I'm addressing that "you can't read andante the way you are" crap...
Unless you have some sort of solid "Andante in this game as scum did exactly this" I do not want to hear 1 more time... "you can't TR andante if you don't know her scum game"

Personally, I think my scum games are pretty good, I'm proud of them, however, just cause I'm not terrible scum, it doesn't mean we need to start tossing around "Well she's from EM" "look up meta!!" seriously. I am here to solve the game. and that is what I'd like to do. I'm not solving my alignment. If you want to dig through my games, have at it. Make sure it's actually over though.

But I do not want to hear 1 more post about how someone else isn't allowed to TR me cause they haven't read one of my scum games... page 28 was angering me.

[northsidegal]

She's from EM so the quick realtime responses are extremely null for her and not a good metric to read her on. Better to read her on whether the cases she pushes are pure bullshit or not.

Oh i didnt know that. Well it worked to townread her last time so maybe this isnt aa strong a reason as i thought but i think she's still town

without even necessarily disagreeing with the townread, if you don't know what someone is capable of as scum, aren't you worried that they might be more skillful than you anticipated? andante has quite a lot of games completed from a quick look that i took and so she's not exactly a newbie either

Ummm I think my town games speak for themselves lol uhhh the games here... most games are things I've replaced into, but why iseveryone so concerned about scum!Andante?? I literally die tonight scum knows I'm a pr lol plus I've actually been doing stuff, so we're not entertaining this andante!scum idea

I think that this sort of reaction is a little extreme, or at least is uncalled for given how "soft" my posts on the subject so far have been.

The literal very first words in my post that you quote there is "without even necessarily disagreeing with the townread". In other words, the questions that I'm asking skitter there are really more a probing of skitter herself rather than any sort of conversation specifically regarding you – if even

that small of a level

of tangentially questioning your alignment makes you uncomfortable, I'm not really sure what to say.

[northsidegal]

Unless you have some sort of solid "Andante in this game as scum did exactly this" I do not want to hear 1 more time... "you can't TR andante if you don't know her scum game"

This logic doesn't follow, but this is largely a philosophical dispute and not really super game relevant at this point so I'm just gonna leave it there.

Personally, I think my scum games are pretty good, I'm proud of them, however, just cause I'm not terrible scum, it doesn't mean we need to start tossing around "Well she's from EM" "look up meta!!" seriously. I am here to solve the game. and that is what I'd like to do. I'm not solving my alignment. If you want to dig through my games, have at it. Make sure it's actually over though.

But I do not want to hear 1 more post about how someone else isn't allowed to TR me cause they haven't read one of my scum games... page 28 was angering me.

To be clear, I'm not saying nor have I ever said that someone can't townread you if they are unfamiliar with how you play as scum. What I

was

saying to skitter specifically was that I found it slightly surprising that she would have the opinion that she did, given the level of information that she had.

[skitter30]

i mean, ok, let's take a step back

the last time i played with her was the first time i played with her, and i thought she had exhibited townie behaviors, so i townread her (and was right)

she's playing in a very similar fashion here, and last time townreading her for those reasons worked, so why i do need to take into account her scumgame?

[innocentvillager]

lol who is sr ing obvtown andante

[northsidegal]

i mean, ok, let's take a step back

the last time i played with her was the first time i played with her, and i thought she had exhibited townie behaviors, so i townread her (and was right)

she's playing in a very similar fashion here, and last time townreading her for those reasons worked, so why i do need to take into account her scumgame?

so i'm just gonna more or less paraphrase some stuff that i've already said and then again just leave it there.

personally, if i have little to no information as to someone's behavior as scum, i think that it is prudent not to underestimate what they may be capable of. (phrased another way: you likely won't hurt yourself too much by

overestimating

what someone unfamiliar is capable of)

i also think that townreading someone in a single previous game for whatever reason (and having that person turn out to be town) is weak evidence to believe that whatever tell you were using was actually a towntell. imagine i said i townread someone for capitalizing the start of their sentences in a previous game and they turned out to be town, and then in this game they capitalize the start of their sentences again. i think that these are comparable situations, but it's just more immediately apparent that sentence capitalization is a personality trait rather than actually alignment indicative. (also, it is intentional that i say "weak evidence" rather than "not evidence")

that's all.

[skitter30]

i mean, sure, i understand what you're saying but what am i supposed to read her on if not the ... behaviors that i find alignment indicative

i can't just ~ignore~ the ai behaviors of this game taht i'm playing here and now because she might do / have done them as scum elsewhere, i just have to take what i see here and do the best i can with them

not sure if i have much else to add but yeah

[Mare]

700 and counting posts. (Image of me in pain here.)

~

I'm not ~vibing~ with the hyperposting but at least a lot of it is content and not just pure fluff. Going to just go along with what everyone else is saying about Andante, town for now, nothing egregious and it seems... difficult I think for someone on day one to be able to churn out that amount of Stuff. Will judge it later down the road but sliding it a pass for now. Same for IV.

On the other hand, hate flow trap's iso, the things that are in there can't justify the amount of nonsense.

I am holding out my hands trying to townblock with people who will not post 1123123 times a day. Any offers will be taken.

[flow trap]

Hey I can't remember if I mentioned Cakes sounded Town or not so here you go :3

[Something_Smart]

(is this against the rules to say? if it is then i'm just joking)

I don't think so, but it might not be a great thing to talk about during a game.

[catboi]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: something_smart

[catboi]

Was thinking about how scum are typically more conciliatory toward scumreads on them in the early game and mulling over Datisi's response to nsg in my head and but don't know how much I believe that

[Faker]

Too tired for this right now.

Should clarify me/Mare definitely do not have beef, other than the fact that she's a stupid fucking horse girl