open 841: concgratulations to the winners and losers

[schadd_]

[instrumental]

vote count 3.1 !

Menalque (2):

Andante, Alyssa The Lamb

Andante (1):

Mare

Alyssa The Lamb (1):

skitter30

not voting (5):

catboi, Menalque, Something_Smart, Kaiji, Datisi

9 are alive, and it takes 5 votes to reevaluate someone's considerations. day 3 ends in (expired on 2022-01-30 04:45:00)

other ideas

• did you know that skitter30 is vla on fridays and saturdays?
  
• did you know that datisi is vla on tuesdays and thursdays?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

UNVOTE:

[Alyssa The Lamb]

good talk

[catboi]

hello i woke up i bet all of you are happy about that

I also don't think there's a world where skitter's town here

i think i need to see more about your thought process here

Okay so in particular I think that there's one scum tops in you/mena, and I can make that 3 with Andante because I do not think she is hardbussing menalque here, and I assume you are not bussing her. There also can only be at most 1 in S_S/alyssa. And so there has to be at least 1 in Mare/skitter/kaiji from my POV. And while I have enormous reservations about how Mare has been playing, her taking neighborizer doesn't really make sense here as scum. I believe Kaiji is town, or maybe I

want

to believe Kaiji is town (and my last time reading them was a big whiff), but at some point after their entry I just got the ~feeling~ it wasn't their scum game and I'd probably have to look back to find the exact posts but my feeling was as scum they're almost more single minded trying to drive through a misyeet. And then theer's skitter. And I don't really have any good reason to townread skitter. And I haven't all game, really.

But further than that, the midwaybear kill is a chaos kill, and generally that type of kill indicates someone on scum is feeling pretty safe in their position

It's also notable I think because from a mechanical perspective, I think the kill points to scum being afraid that midway would be mechanically cleared today and no longer a viable mis-elim. WWhich I think is a pretty good indicator that Andante is town.

But it's also notable in that it shows that scum are absolutely not concerned whatsoever with the possibility of the ascetic cop getting a guilty. And that's a pretty significant thing - my last 3 losses as scum have all been because of me getting mechanically guiltied or POE'd. A cop outing with a guilty or multiple innocents at this stage of the game is potentially game-breaking. But scum very obviously

weren't

cop hunting with that kill, which means the ascetic cop draft slot is most likely in the hands of scum. And there's really only one person who realistically can have that role. And it's skitter.

[catboi]

As an aside Catboi every time i think abt my meta here i feel like i need to rib u a bit because you're managing to be so off despite your thesis on me. This is very much not my scumgame, this is very different than the game i played in slaughterhouse, and very different than most of the conclusions *you* came to in slaughterhouse. I'm not really sure i expect you to do better but like at minimum i do think its interesting that you dont seem to be taking that into acct and are coming to the conclusion that i can be scum here)

Okay, I am sick of the digs here so let me try to clear this up:

The reason I went on that dive was for the purpose of trying to convince people that my scumread they were ignoring was correct. I was trying to make a point because I kept getting shut down when I actually tried making any arguments, and instead Taly whined and bitched until I second guessed and went down a rabbit hole of stupid, when rightfully I should have just told him to fuck off and be done with it. But the point being is, I fucking failed. I did not succeed, I drew the wrong conclusions and mishammered like I usually do. All the effort was unhelpful and in fact counterproductive in what it achieved. It was a huge fucking waste of time.

But, further, the entire point of that dive was for me to try to justify my association hunting. Your slot was already flipped in that game. I did not catch you based off anything in that. The only reason I even did catch you was because you claimed scum to my face by trying to get me eliminated when you couldn't justify it, and even then I nearly secondf-guessed on it, because the only justification I had was OMGUS. It was hardly a read where I had actual meaningful insight


But your implication here is that if I am town (from your POV), I should be townreading you here and the difference should be clear to me, and I absolutely do not believe that you believe that. It erads more as an attempt to belittle me and try to make me second-guess my view of you and I am absolutely not going to let that happen.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

catboi what exactly are your reads looking like atm

[Alyssa The Lamb]

But further than that, the midwaybear kill is a chaos kill, and generally that type of kill indicates someone on scum is feeling pretty safe in their position

this isn't the first guess I would say for that tbh

it probably means that the scumteam aren't expecting any of them to be flipped anytime soon and are kind of banking on it, which means having any confirmed town would potentially cause issues for that

having them be in objectively good spots doesn't naturally follow though, I've seen scumteams do that kind of thing before and having one flip just ruin the whole game for them

[Alyssa The Lamb]

even if skitter is scum, I don't think it's actually correct to flip her unless we have very good reason to believe she's the vig

if she's town, I think the game moves to being unwinnable more often than not

[catboi]

catboi what exactly are your reads looking like atm

I hate making lists

but

Andante

Kaiji, Datisi
mare, alyssa, something_smart
menalque, skitter

I don't know there's a lot of uncertainty in the bottom part. I was thinking something_smart was town but the way he popped in to chip at kaiji calling me town on day 2 bothered me

even if skitter is scum, I don't think it's actually correct to flip her unless we have very good reason to believe she's the vig

if she's town, I think the game moves to being unwinnable more often than not

I'm not advocating for flipping her today because vig hunting is the right play and if menalque is town that dramatically alters my worldview

[catboi]

random-ass thought but is NSG likely to pick vig as town? Never played with her before (was looking forward to it, too...), would be helpful if someone who knows her could weigh in

[Datisi]

as far as i know, she's strong town and she once won a scummy for vigging correctly (2019?), i think it's likely she'd pick vig as town

[catboi]

Knew the first part but wasn't sure what type of player she was, thanks for that

[Kaiji]

Hello. I wish to announce that NSG had poor choice in role selection but it is ok.

this was a very clever soft referencing my previous stance on vigilante as a role, which I have expressed in a recent dead PT of a completed game - as well as the latter claiming "it is ok" meaning the role was not obtained.

[Kaiji]

FWIW

[Something_Smart]

I was thinking something_smart was town but the way he popped in to chip at kaiji calling me town on day 2 bothered me

This is level 0 logic. Why do you think I wouldn't do this as town?

[Datisi]

s_s, what does your heart want to do on this day in open 841

[Something_Smart]

My heart wants nothing to do with this game and it wants me to think about more pleasant things instead.

I'm kinda just really lost which makes me think massclaim might help to get me un-lost. In particular I would like to not have to dance around the few unclaimed slots because they could be a PR.

[Datisi]

Kaiji replaces northsidegal

Hello. I wish to announce that NSG had poor choice in role selection but it is ok.

these two happened slightly more than a minute apart - though if they're scum, they were added to the pt prior to this

Hello. I wish to announce that NSG had poor choice in role selection but it is ok.

this was a very clever soft referencing my previous stance on vigilante as a role, which I have expressed in a recent dead PT of a completed game - as well as the latter claiming "it is ok" meaning the role was not obtained.

and fairly certain kaiji is telling the truth about this being intended to be a soft.

the pick makes sense from town!nsg's point of view. so options are that either kaiji is town and telling the truth, or they repped in, saw they were scum, zoomed through the scum pt to read about nsg saying how she'd pick vig as town (i'm assuming that's what'd be happening in the scum pt) and then decided to soft about that knowing it'd fit her play profile - at the time when it was arguably unnecessary because the wagon had already gone down.

yes, i am aware it's possible scum!nsg picked vig *anyway* and that's where they got the idea to soft it but it still feels unnecessary and ab<jkefsrdg kaiji probably town? ok what's next

[Datisi]

this catboi dude has pocketed me and i am starting to look at skitt's direction again - and i'm hella confused about what she's been dropping mechanically and kinda wanna add my vote towards massclaiming because it's obvious we're not going anywhere

[Datisi]

s_s, should i be worried about the fact that it seems like you currently have ~nothing~?

[Something_Smart]

I don't have nothing, I just don't have any read strong enough to be worth pursuing over mechanics. Which is normal for a mechanics-heavy open.

[Something_Smart]

Fwiw I think catboi's point about how scum might have the cop slot because they weren't trying to kill it is solid. And I think Kaiji's point about how scum didn't kill skitter because they were afraid she was BP is terrible.

[Datisi]

I don't have nothing, I just don't have any read strong enough to be worth pursuing over mechanics. Which is normal for a mechanics-heavy open.

it also makes you terribly hard to read, especially considering you're not even pursuing *that*.

Fwiw I think catboi's point about how scum might have the cop slot because they weren't trying to kill it is solid. And I think Kaiji's point about how scum didn't kill skitter because they were afraid she was BP is terrible.

agreed and agreed.

[Kaiji]

lmfao ss

my point was that is the world where skitter *is* town is the one where scum do not shoot her in fear of being a town bp

thus either scum have that slot via skitter or scum do not have that slot

VOTE: Something Smart

trying to push incorrect logic is a sin from SS

[Something_Smart]

I mean, taking BP over cop is a scumclaim. I think most people know this?