Mini Normal 2262: NbITGBSMoD [game over]

[Scorpious]

wavemode and fire are my early tr's.

Time to commute

what about wave's 214 did u find town? Im not really sure how this post changes your read on them

I felt the answers were genuinely written. There was no defiance in any of it. My main reason for that line of question was to get more of a tone.and writing style. Not necessarily concrete information.

I like to look at things a little differently when I play. Of course there are the mechanics and rules and whatnot but so many people neglect other things like tone.

I also watch the games for changes in a writer’s punctuation. It can be a great tell, especially if it varies.
I(we) all have a solid baseline on how wave writes when they feel relaxed and not under a lot of pressure.

I agree they were genuinely written but how does saying stuff like "You're right" or "It doesnt" lean more towards town then it does mafia? that's the part I dont get. It's intresting to me that you TR that post based off the tone, cuz it didnt really tell me much, can u expand on this

and FTR, i do find the post towny but because of the actual content he said on the last line: "like, the actual towniest thing stephen has done this game was posting a list of scumreads and offering zero explanation for them

It's not that they HAD no explanation. The reads did have reasoning behind them. But in that moment he didn't particularly care to justify them nor care what people thought about them, even when challenged about it. I think that tends to come from town more than mafia"(this just seems town)

Fwiw, I am very slow to make reads I feel confident in. So I am very ok with the list with no explanation.
I have to go on reads because my mech game is horrid. If setup equations start showing up, I check out.

And as I said the responses are noted and of course useful. But more a by product of info this early.

[fireisredsir]

I felt the answers were genuinely written. There was no defiance in any of it. My main reason for that line of question was to get more of a tone.and writing style. Not necessarily concrete information.

I like to look at things a little differently when I play. Of course there are the mechanics and rules and whatnot but so many people neglect other things like tone.

i don't really scumread wave for the post, but i did think it was interesting that he said that he townread steve for offering zero explanation for his reads, feeling no need to justify himself, etc., when wave did that very same thing himself in the same post. it feels a little too clean and lines up too nicely, ya know? seemed like it could have been intentional, doing the same thing that he is then saying is a townie thing to do. i do think he could have done it as town, but i think it's not giving him enough credit to townread him for the post

[Scorpious]

I felt the answers were genuinely written. There was no defiance in any of it. My main reason for that line of question was to get more of a tone.and writing style. Not necessarily concrete information.

I like to look at things a little differently when I play. Of course there are the mechanics and rules and whatnot but so many people neglect other things like tone.

i don't really scumread wave for the post, but i did think it was interesting that he said that he townread steve for offering zero explanation for his reads, feeling no need to justify himself, etc., when wave did that very same thing himself in the same post. it feels a little too clean and lines up too nicely, ya know? seemed like it could have been intentional, doing the same thing that he is then saying is a townie thing to do. i do think he could have done it as town, but i think it's not giving him enough credit to townread him for the post

This is fair. It’s also timing. I’m more apt to accept it in the very early stages of the game where one exchange can change multiple reads on multiple detail. I would naturally expect more explanation as time progresses.

[Nero Cain]

Scorps 203 is a bit dumb. It was a meaningless page 1 vote and you calling it out is stupid. There's nothing "bad" about it. It's null. Also complaining about his 157 was whack. It's not all that dissimilar from Andante's 161. I thought this post was overly nitpicky but decent q at the end. No wonder this guy got ran up in our last game.

also I don't tr Hockey for realz 27,28 come from maf not town

why

this is a bad response

both these posts are kinda bad tbh

At first, I was like "yeah I agree with you" but upon further reflection...naw. Even though I think Hockey is scum both alignments will ask why they are being scum read. Maybe you could argue that Stephens isn't the greatest since asking for clarification on why they (Hockey) were being scum read is just...generic and not really "bad" but not great either.

The reads did have reasoning behind them.

but didn't he only explain like one read though? Like I can get behind your reasoning for town reading the slot and I guess you could say that logic dictates that he did have reasoning to call those 5 slots scummy (unless you want to argue that he threw out 5 randos to see who bites) but I only remember him talking about Greeting but Ima reread that convo when I get done catching up.

now, where were you all those times I got ran up for not explaining my scumreads?

I dont think DW was pissed I think he genuinely was curious.

No your list sucks and so you die

sounds kinda angry there.

this was the 2nd post after an OMGUS/Venge vote. Where are you getting that DW was more curious than pissed?

I don’t think anyone should be taking anything AI out of that entire exchange based on the ridiculousness of it all.

I'll dedicate a longer post to this when I'm not as tired but I don't feel like it was really all that "ridiculous". I mean maybe I'm misinterpreting here when you, wave and Hockey say there's nothing AI there to mean its null behavior and you just can't decide what alignment(s) it comes from but its not like its a contentless fluffpost.

[Nero Cain]

There are no red flags from me from fireisredsir so far.

fire

is

red

sir

this has been a contentless fluffpost

[Nero Cain]

The pressure Stephen A Smith is seemingly putting on Dwlee99 seems completely out of place to me.

kinda agree.

scum using hyper-aggression is always a possibility. But I think he just believes that he caught DW and the OMGUS vote was proof.

@stephen

-you think Hockey is scum and are pushing him but why wasn't he in your top 5?

[Datisi]

vote count 1.05

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-02-19 12:00:00).

yeet

HockeyFan [4]:

fireisredsir, Nero Cain, Surye, Stephen A Smith

0verki11 [2]:

Andante, wavemode

Dwlee99 [1]:

Scorpious

T3 [1]:

HockeyFan

Greeting [1]:

Eyes without a face

Stephen A Smith [1]:

Greeting

not voting [3]:

0verki11, T3, Dwlee99

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

flavour

[Datisi]

replacing T3.

[Datisi]

Frozen Angel replaces T3.

[Frozen Angel]

[Frozen Angel]

Read nothing of the game will do so in an hour two

[Frozen Angel]

Alright so I'm usually doing some walls of text when replacing in-game - so I can share my thought process as I'm catching up

Just note that it's been a really long time since I played a forum mafia game so I hope I can express my thoughts in a clear manner

Spoiler:

Hi hello

Get rid of all hyperposters first

VOTE: T3

I don't want to kill t3

VOTE: Hockeyfan

The instant question to ask is why not?

Spoiler:

VOTE: wavemode for not having a voting reason

Did anyone else have actually a reason? It was RVS

Spoiler:

well I sr surye too and would rather sort surye first cause hockey is just gonna throw quote walls out.. and I'd rather just worry about him later. I said that cause I don't want people thinking I TR him!! like, yes initial vote was rvs, but I do think he's maf

ooh that's a good post from fire!! I feel like town is more likely to start looking through past games this early

VOTE: HockeyFan

Surye suspicions can wait... for now...
@Surye when you're around, I wanna chat... I'm on to your ways my friend

Fast switch between these two posts. I always find fast switches scummy. Town mindset is way more progressive than branching. Branching is what scum mindsets prefer so they can add themself to the discussions and gain others' trust.

[Frozen Angel]

Spoiler:

i actually kinda agree with the hockey suspicion, i scoped out the starts of his games and the early buttering people up doesn't really feel like his town play, which is usually more fluffposting, banter, and discussing mechanics. i only see one scum game in his history but he acted closer to this. it's not an open so there's no mechanics to discuss here

Litreally what lol. I have "buttered up" people(if tring ppl early is what this means) in other games too. In Newbie 2067, I had about 2-3 reads within the first 4 posts(And I was town that game). Another game is Mini Normal 2234(Once Again town) where I townread someone within the first 2 posts so i'm not sure what meta diving u did?

About the bolded, First of all, I don't do it ALOT(yes I do it I will admit), but secondly the game was off of RVS on page 1 so what are u getting at? Am i suppsoed to do the bolded with 3-4 votes, and get even more votes cuz that doesnt seem like a good plan to me?

but still, he feels like more of an outsider. and like he's forcing himself to make a meaningful post with commentary on the game even when not much has happened, so he can look more town and get people off his back. feels like he's doing it because he thinks he has to instead of because it's his honest thoughts.

Ya, I like making meaningpul posts when 2 ppl have said they don't like RVS(and want to move on it quickly). Whats the deal with this? Also, yes I do have to do with it cuz I have 3 votes!! How can you tell that they're not my "honest" thoughts?

I like this defensive attitude when their meta is questioned. Just feels genuine here.

Spoiler:

What is different between fireisredsir and surye in that regard?

I like this question a lot, dk if I would call them town already tho

This however goes exactly in opposite direction. seems like practically saying "nothing" but looking like you're busy working when some accusations got shifted on you. nervous scummy vibes

Spoiler:

Litreally what lol. I have "buttered up" people(if tring ppl early is what this means) in other games too. In Newbie 2067, I had about 2-3 reads within the first 4 posts(And I was town that game). Another game is Mini Normal 2234(Once Again town) where I townread someone within the first 2 posts so i'm not sure what meta diving u did?

nah, i read those, apparently closer than you did, cause this is disingenuous. both of those read like early banter, not an attempt at looking like you're analyzing. saying "galron locktown" in post 9 because of his rvs vote with no explanation? you're really gonna try to pretend like that's an example of a legit townread? go ahead, double down on that, please

it's more about the tone, anyway. in those two posts you pointed out 4 separate times how you liked/agreed with a part of someone's post. sometimes you townread for it, sometimes not. that's the part that feels fake, i don't think you would feel the need to point those things out if you were town. but as scum, feeling some pressure to come up with something, you might

And I like this push at the same time

Spoiler:

What is different between fireisredsir and surye in that regard?

I like this question a lot, dk if I would call them town already tho

This post really comes off as a wasted early scum post. It grammatically equates to nothing.

towny vibe cookie points for catching what I saw too

Spoiler:

Also I do feel a little bad for so much pressure on someone who is genuinely trying, so Hockey can be Hockey in peace for now

It's literally page 2 and content is just being created. how did you conclude they are genuinely trying and why you thought it was so much of a push?

Seems so deflecting. Again I find this branching/deflecting attidue scummy in nature

[Dwlee99]

FA: What you are calling "branching" is Andante's playstyle.

[Frozen Angel]

Dw, Im (sadly) used to it, idk how to not act sus lol.

This part of this post is giving me all sorts of vibes. for one it seems you have knowledge that the people you are dealing with are genuinely sus at you. And for someone who was just defending their meta by bringing meta examples, this seems like a contradictory mindset.

Then it's a response to someone who just unvoted you for literally no reason. It gives me the vibe that you want to either make them feel good about doing that (which is contradictory to a usual town mindset who wants the game to be solved - as a town you should have questioned it because of that reason) but also gives the vibe that you were nervous about the votes on you when it's only page 3 and literally no one was voting with a solid reason. or it feels distancing, as you knew the intention of their vote on you, and you don't care about their fast switch.

It's just so not the reaction I find constant with the town mindset and for that will point you my finger of suspicion.

Spoiler:

You've ignored any actual happenings in the thread in favor of throwing together a random list based on nothing

Let's pretend everything you just said is true.

Why does that make me scum?

Ohhh I like that reaction from Stephen. and then him pushing dwelee to explain his train of thoughts repeatly (and in annoying manner) actually getting heavy town vibes from stephan while I didn't find dwelee reaction initially scummy either.

Spoiler:

It's fundamentally zero solve

I respectfully disagree, finding scum and town can be down by making people "react" to things. It's not about the momentary solving or the leadership attitude as both alignments can have it. It's about making people jump on things and then question them about how they thought making that jump was a valid move based on their thought process and scum fail in that as they have no valid/consistant thought process. At least that's my take and that's what I saw he did there that I liked.

pedit: ah meta, well these are just very early observations. we'll see if they are consistent with their character or not during the game

[Frozen Angel]

Spoiler:

Greeting,
We need a centered Stephen a VS DWLEE stat!!!

Also, Stephen is my new favorite player, I read every post in his voice.

getting extra town vibes here. again they saw what I clearly see too

Spoiler:

Is it just me or did anyone else read the entire 2 page thing as
"yes you did"
"no I didn't"
"yes you did"
"no I didn't"

lol that was great! an entire back and forth that meant exactly nothing

What did you get from it though? Why posting Information everyone know but no analysis when everyone else is making some analysis for it?

Spoiler:

and you can be DAMN sure that if I were to draw a mafia card I would do absolutely nothing different

I just happen to be town here.

I like your style

Spoiler:

Why would Steven do this as scum?

"to seem townie" is the simple answer to any question of the form "why would he do that as scum?" ...

Hated the hockey's question. Liked the answer given. Such an absurd question to ask.

Spoiler:

tbh this entire interaction doesnt seem AI at all

Am I really the only one that finds this bad?

Stephan had a list of scumreads for ??? reason. DW was pissed b/c he was on it and it was unexplained. It's content. Deciphering wich alignment the content comes from can be tricky but just throwing your hands up and saying that it was meaningless is dumb


and scummy

Agreed

[Dwlee99]

I respectfully disagree, finding scum and town can be down by making people "react" to things. It's not about the momentary solving or the leadership attitude as both alignments can have it. It's about making people jump on things and then question them about how they thought making that jump was a valid move based on their thought process and scum fail in that as they have no valid/consistant thought process. At least that's my take and that's what I saw he did there that I liked.

I mean I was waiting for Stephen to say this but he never did

[HockeyFan]

Why would Steven do this as scum?

"to seem townie" is the simple answer to any question of the form "why would he do that as scum?" ...

Hated the hockey's question. Liked the answer given. Such an absurd question to ask.

Doing whatever he did is not the way scum wants to "seem townie". Like imagine this, you, a player seemingly thrust yourself into the thread and cause chaos to give yourself more attention then originally. Why would you do that as scum?

[Dwlee99]

To make yourself look like town

[Dwlee99]

You ever play with the one and only DkKoba?

[Scorpious]

Why would Steven do this as scum?

"to seem townie" is the simple answer to any question of the form "why would he do that as scum?" ...

Hated the hockey's question. Liked the answer given. Such an absurd question to ask.

To be honest, I've seen that play countless times. Hiding in plain sight,flood the thread,thigs like that. Its human nature to suspenct the quiet ones over the verbose ones. and if Stephen is who I think it is... it is 100% NAI


Doing whatever he did is not the way scum wants to "seem townie". Like imagine this, you, a player seemingly thrust yourself into the thread and cause chaos to give yourself more attention then originally. Why would you do that as scum?

[Scorpious]

idk why that happened, but I was replaying to FA

[Scorpious]

Why would Steven do this as scum?

"to seem townie" is the simple answer to any question of the form "why would he do that as scum?" ...

Hated the hockey's question. Liked the answer given. Such an absurd question to ask.

To be honest, I've seen that play countless times. Hiding in plain sight,flood the thread,thigs like that. Its human nature to suspenct the quiet ones over the verbose ones. and if Stephen is who I think it is... it is 100% NAI

Doing whatever he did is not the way scum wants to "seem townie". Like imagine this, you, a player seemingly thrust yourself into the thread and cause chaos to give yourself more attention then originally. Why would you do that as scum?

this was my response just in case anyone gets confused.

[Frozen Angel]

203

Eh not a fan of the way this iso search and push was executed.

Spoiler:

scorpious are you scum this game

I'm just curious

neither a fan of this response so lets just keep it at it for now

Early townreads on both Andante and Dwlee for seemingly being the driving forces of the game getting out of RVS so quickly.

what?! I just read the game and this just makes no sense

And first real town lean for me goes to wavemode.

Can't follow the way you sorted him for yourself. seems so lacking of a slot to sort for me yet

Spoiler:

Post 188 also seems to be spot-on on

Stephen A Smith

. Repping into a game to post a completely random, unsubstantiated suspicion list (71) and then get into a heated argument with the top "culprit" just doesn't make sense as town play at all. Is this some kind of past-game grudge that I don't know of? 82 seems to be suggesting that, but then, in 156

Dwlee99

claims they know nothing of it.

You not about to stand there pretending you have the short term memory of a goldfish on me are you?

The pressure

Stephen A Smith

is seemingly putting on

Dwlee99

seems completely out of place to me.

As for their later posts, the rebuffs to their obviously very disruptive play seem to be overly aggressive, as in 192 or 196. Sure, they've repped in a short while ago, but why would it even matter when almost all they've literally posted is unnecessary banter.

VOTE: Stephen A Smith until they convince me they're town.

maybe stephen town for continuing to persits 1 thing instead of just letting it go(cuz it doesn't benefit him as mafia to do this).

This depends on who Stephen's main is

The playstyle reminds me of House.

And yes, I would say that spamming the crap out of the game benefits the mafia hugely and acts as a distracting force.

1 - I don't agree that it was spamming by the literal meaning. It was reaction hunting from what I saw and I actually liked it.
2 - I can't understand why you think them putting pressure (even if it was unwarranted and without a previous reason) on dwelee scummy. Putting pressure solves slots. how is that a scum doing by nature in your point of view?
3 - Why guilty until proven innocent mindset?

even with the above 3 observations on your read here, I think that this is not busy working and is an actual attempt to make a read. anyways need to check its consistency yet.

and I liked the next post so there is that

Spoiler:

tbh this entire interaction doesnt seem AI at all

Am I really the only one that finds this bad?

Stephan had a list of scumreads for ??? reason. DW was pissed b/c he was on it and it was unexplained. It's content. Deciphering wich alignment the content comes from can be tricky but just throwing your hands up and saying that it was meaningless is dumb
and scummy

I get that they were both angry, but all that came out of it was "I said it" "No you didn't". This type of interaction(from both players) is not town leaning in any way

also I don't tr Hockey for realz 27,28 come from maf not town

why

this is a bad response

Damm I'm sorry I wanted to know why someone sr'd me for making a read

I probs have Dwlee as town(for now) for 16,20 and 34

ridiculous read

yes I'll admit I ahve not played alot fo games with Dwlee, but thier first few posts seemed towny ish/willing to get game out of RVS(yes I dont know thier mafia range, but I still think its town)

How is 56 weird in any way lol @Stephen

"They were both angry" why would they be angry when stephen just replaced in, and dwelee had his first vote and omgused. both tried there to at least seem to be solving each other. Their action there is 100% alignment indicative by all standards as its part of the mindset they follow.

I still don't get why you find the posts irrelivent?

[Frozen Angel]

actually skimming the last 2 pages cause I have to go for a bit, I find what scorpius said about dwlee not being angry flagging since he actually had angry responses back then - nero also called it in.

Why would Steven do this as scum?

"to seem townie" is the simple answer to any question of the form "why would he do that as scum?" ...

Hated the hockey's question. Liked the answer given. Such an absurd question to ask.

Doing whatever he did is not the way scum wants to "seem townie". Like imagine this, you, a player seemingly thrust yourself into the thread and cause chaos to give yourself more attention then originally. Why would you do that as scum?

I have a genuine question hockey, how much experience with mafia games do you have?

@Scorpious Nothing is alignment indicative on its own but everything makes sense with either a town mind set or scum mind set when connecting all the dots and see their behavior as a whole.

Stephan dropping a list that looked random: not AI
Stephan reacting and pushing back dewele for voting him over that list not AI

Stephan doing both of the above though was either reaction hunting - which persists with where he got at later on in his posts or was pretending to be doing it which still persists with where he got with that read later on.

when you see someone behavior as a whole you can only judge how one action of them even if its completely nonalignment indicative based on their meta, can be meaningful for one thought process (for town or mafia)

Hope I explained the mess of a read and thought process I have on the slot right now and where I'm getting at more clearly