Large Normal 238 | Weiqi, Baduk, Go | Endgame

[April Ludgate]

I am at the bottom of page 123 and

at that point

I think I have more or less developed reads that look like this:

Town reads: Nero, VP, Enchant, fire, STD, Deas

Almost-Town: Yeet, Malcolm

Can't decide: Scorp, Datisi, skitter, April, Cape

Scum leans: tene, frog

Note that these are mostly impressions although claims do play a part of it. Also names in each category are not necessarily ordered

Can you explain your VP/Enchant/STD/Deas reads for me?

[VP Baltar]

but I think what I'm picking up on here is real.

is this your strongest scumread at the moment? what other scumreads do you have?

I still want to yeet the fuck out of cape, but that was going nowhere. People are willing to give him a pass today even though he is doing nothing and had a very questionable hammer yesterday, as I've explained.

If I was going to compromise on something, I might be willing to back a tenebros wagon, but I go back and forth there.

what's your case for scumCape?

I'm more convinced of frogster than Cape right now given the last several pages, but if I was summing up cape, I would say:

1) his hammer yesterday was not good, and then he kept explaining after the hammer, which looked like more effort than was actually needed. (His defense here is that he did not allegedly know he was hammering)

2) I told him overnight I thought he didn't look great off the wu wagon. I voted him today. He responded with a giant "case" on me that is both bad, and didn't contain a vote on me for some reason? (He voted after I called him on that part).

3) he has not done anything of note today other than to join the Nero shade parade of VP.

It's not a slam dunk case by any means, which is why I think this frogger progression is much more interesting rn.

[VP Baltar]

And yes I know I'm voting tenebros. He is just fucking annoying and maybe scum

[April Ludgate]

Why the enchant hard town read?

I don't believe scum claim vig on day one just for the lolz. It's a very risky play that could be CC'd or result in them getting shot by the real vig or them getting yeeted soon enough when there is no other kill at night. It just doesn't make sense to me that fua was scum and claimed that unprompted

Note to self, Enchant claimed Vig day one.

I don't hate this post by Eyes, +1

[April Ludgate]

but I think what I'm picking up on here is real.

is this your strongest scumread at the moment? what other scumreads do you have?

I still want to yeet the fuck out of cape, but that was going nowhere. People are willing to give him a pass today even though he is doing nothing and had a very questionable hammer yesterday, as I've explained.

If I was going to compromise on something, I might be willing to back a tenebros wagon, but I go back and forth there.

what's your case for scumCape?

I'm more convinced of frogster than Cape right now given the last several pages, but if I was summing up cape, I would say:

1) his hammer yesterday was not good, and then he kept explaining after the hammer, which looked like more effort than was actually needed. (His defense here is that he did not allegedly know he was hammering)

2) I told him overnight I thought he didn't look great off the wu wagon. I voted him today. He responded with a giant "case" on me that is both bad, and didn't contain a vote on me for some reason? (He voted after I called him on that part).

3) he has not done anything of note today other than to join the Nero shade parade of VP.

It's not a slam dunk case by any means, which is why I think this frogger progression is much more interesting rn.

Okay, I like this. Yeah, those are solid reasons to have a scum read. I think that Cape is town that happens to look off because of a few things, and might just be tunneled.
I'm still figuring you out, but I am starting to see that town VPB I like to see, so that's a good thing.

[April Ludgate]

but I think it’s more likely that tenebro-scum was a world I wanted to be true rather than one that actually is true.

i believe this is what scum was feeding on, I like this change coming after you said you wanted the night.

My Datisi/DeasVail reads were something I wanted to work on, so this helps me a lot.

[April Ludgate]

STD/Malcolm still my highest scum reads. There's probably one in the main mix of things, I just don't know where it's at currently.

[VP Baltar]

April, when you have a minute, I'd love your take on frogster

[fireisredsir]

STD/Malcolm still my highest scum reads. There's probably one in the main mix of things, I just don't know where it's at currently.

i think STD is town, he seems pure to me, but i could see a world where malcolm is maf

[April Ludgate]

April, when you have a minute, I'd love your take on frogster

I think they're townie, but there's been a couple things that I could see being a scum action.

For instance, they made a comment on Tene vs Malcolm looking like TvT, and while I generally liked the assessment, I could see it coming from scum.

So that's generally how I've been with Frogster, I generally like the way they say things, and how they choose to, but I can't say I can't see them coming as solid scum play.

It's enough for me to not scum read them, and even lean town on them for a bit, but I am hesitant from putting them in the tier I've been talking about.

[DeasVail]

STD/Malcolm still my highest scum reads. There's probably one in the main mix of things, I just don't know where it's at currently.

i think STD is town, he seems pure to me, but i could see a world where malcolm is maf

This is pretty much exactly what I was going to say.

(I don’t mean to be so closely aligned with Fire on reads, it just happened that way)

[Frogsterking]

Frog, you know I was making fun of dats in 3343, right?

You've said so.

nothing prevents Cape from hammering as scum, true and scum do QH to end the day and stop discussion but it was p 98 and the day was just dragging on. Wu was the defacto elimination at that point. I'm also sorta buying into the "I didn't know I was hammering" thing.

Yeah I thought those comments directed toward Dats were funny.

I remember seeing no one announced e- on that page so I thought it made the hammer being a mistake more believable. I think it's also possible it was OK for Town win rate because it kept the game moving. I thought fua's vote looked the worst of the three on that page.

[April Ludgate]

No order between tiers. Datisi is null in a different way than Skitter slot. I expect 2-3 scum in the blue, tbh, even though I'm leaning town on the majority of the game.

Yeet made a comment about hard to get scum reads this game, which is something I have noticed as well, which means scum are likely playing a more inaction type of game, letting the game flow whilst giving some momentum support here and there.

I could be wrong on STD, that's not a strong scum read. I can't shake the feeling of Malcolm scum, though.

tenebrousluminary
Cape90
MathBlade
Yeet

Nero Cain

DeasVail

Frogsterking

Scorpious

fireisredsir

Enchant

Eyes without a face

VP Baltar

Datisi

skitter30

Save The Dragons

MalcolmTucker

[April Ludgate]

DeasVail
Frogsterking
Scorpious
fireisredsir
Enchant
Eyes without a face
VP Baltar

I'm interested in looking into this group more right now.

[April Ludgate]

I do not think DV and Fire are both scum.

[Frogsterking]

I do not think DV and Fire are both scum.

Is there any reason why they can't both be scum or is this an intuitive read?

[April Ludgate]

probably try this

VOTE: scorp

Any reason why you’re avoiding both the HEM wagon and my wagon to pick from?

because I don't use vca before any flips happen.

Poor take. Also the more popular take, but VCA and wagonomics can be used at any piece of the game, but acting like definitive conclusions is the poor part.

Yes, I know this is my previous slot, point still stands.

They also happen to have the same scum day as Flavor Leaf.

[Nero Cain]

I expect 2-3 scum in the blue, tbh,

you expect the lions share of scum to be in your null reads and not the 4 people that you are scumreading?

[Frogsterking]

STD/Malcolm still my highest scum reads. There's probably one in the main mix of things, I just don't know where it's at currently.

i think STD is town, he seems pure to me, but i could see a world where malcolm is maf

This is pretty much exactly what I was going to say.

(I don’t mean to be so closely aligned with Fire on reads, it just happened that way)

Can someone explain the town reads on Dragons? I'm pretty sure I've played with them and they've acted this way as both alignments.

[April Ludgate]

I expect 2-3 scum in the blue, tbh,

you expect the lions share of scum to be in your null reads and not the 4 people that you are scumreading?

Datisi/skitter are null reads, not scum. And STD isn't necessarily a strong scum read, more I just would be happy to see them go and not surprised if they were scum at all, but DV and Fire said they've been pure, so it makes me want to push them less.

Yes, I don't assume I've just come into the game and immediately caught 2 scum on the bottom. Scum don't mash up like that, it's more likely they've split considering the state of the gamestate, so I do believe there are scum in my town reads.

Scum's job is to get townies to town read them, and scum rarely like to pair up in the main thread.

VPB witnessed a time where Dkkoba and I hardcore teamed up as scum in main thread and powered through, and this does not resemble that type of gamestate in the slightest. This is a very inactive scum game, essentially, they're just letting momentum flow, and slightly guiding, meaning they're content with the way the game is going so far.

I expect scum to get me to town read them, if that makes sense.

Greens happen when I'm more confident.

[April Ludgate]

I do not think DV and Fire are both scum.

Is there any reason why they can't both be scum or is this an intuitive read?

Might be a weak reasoning, but I don't believe DeasVeil teams up with Fire's reads there if they are both scum/scum. They could be T/S or T/T, sure, but yeah, that's a weird partner comment that I don't see them doing with the current gamestate.

[April Ludgate]

I do not think DV and Fire are both scum.

Is there any reason why they can't both be scum or is this an intuitive read?

Might be a weak reasoning, but I don't believe DeasVeil teams up with Fire's reads there if they are both scum/scum. They could be T/S or T/T, sure, but yeah, that's a weird partner comment that I don't see them doing with the current gamestate.

So while there is some reasoning, mixed in with my reads on their individual slots prior to that, I would say it's mostly intuitive, but I've got a strong intuition where at the very least, I like to bring up for my own ISO that this is what I thought in that moment, if that makes sense.

Later in game, when doing some deeper puzzle solves with more information, I can recheck my ISO to see what I was feeling at the time, and why, and what it feels like with more info.

[April Ludgate]

If it helps ease people from my early game, that's pretty standard me.

I troll around, say a bunch of whatever comes to my mind not caring too much, then wait for people to react to me, so I can tighten up the strings I lackadaisically threw out there, and see if I can wrangle in anything.

It helped a lot, I have mostly been able to catch a read on the majority of the slots in this game more than just 1 or 2 layers deep.

[MathBlade]

No order between tiers. Datisi is null in a different way than Skitter slot. I expect 2-3 scum in the blue, tbh, even though I'm leaning town on the majority of the game.

Yeet made a comment about hard to get scum reads this game, which is something I have noticed as well, which means scum are likely playing a more inaction type of game, letting the game flow whilst giving some momentum support here and there.

I could be wrong on STD, that's not a strong scum read. I can't shake the feeling of Malcolm scum, though.

tenebrousluminary
Cape90
MathBlade
Yeet

Nero Cain

DeasVail

Frogsterking

Scorpious

fireisredsir

Enchant

Eyes without a face

VP Baltar

Datisi

skitter30

Save The Dragons

MalcolmTucker

The only place we agree on scum reads is Skitter or Datisi. Could you look there more esp Skitter?

[April Ludgate]

No order between tiers. Datisi is null in a different way than Skitter slot. I expect 2-3 scum in the blue, tbh, even though I'm leaning town on the majority of the game.

Yeet made a comment about hard to get scum reads this game, which is something I have noticed as well, which means scum are likely playing a more inaction type of game, letting the game flow whilst giving some momentum support here and there.

I could be wrong on STD, that's not a strong scum read. I can't shake the feeling of Malcolm scum, though.

tenebrousluminary
Cape90
MathBlade
Yeet

Nero Cain

DeasVail

Frogsterking

Scorpious

fireisredsir

Enchant

Eyes without a face

VP Baltar

Datisi

skitter30

Save The Dragons

MalcolmTucker

The only place we agree on scum reads is Skitter or Datisi. Could you look there more esp Skitter?

Yeah, I'll look more into skitter. Not the best at reading her, plus she replaced out I saw. But I'll try and ISO her tonight.

I think it's a good thing we have different reads Math. What are your reads for my Blue tier?