KTaNE [game over!]

[Datisi]

vote count 7.06

• with
  8
  votes in play, it takes
  5
  to make a decision.
  
• day 7 ends in
  (expired on 2022-05-07 20:45:00)
  .
  
• 3
  players who have the most nominations will be bomb experts on n7.

execution:

PookyTheMagicalBear [2]:

Menalque, Bell

Menalque [2]:

Dwlee99, PookyTheMagicalBear

Andante [1]:

GuiltyLion

not voting [3]:

Enchant, Cat Scratch Fever, Andante

bomb expert nominations:

Bell [3]:

GuiltyLion, Dwlee99, Menalque

Andante [3]:

GuiltyLion, Dwlee99, Menalque

Enchant [2]:

Menalque, Dwlee99

PookyTheMagicalBear [1]:

GuiltyLion

Menalque [1]:

PookyTheMagicalBear

not nominating [4]:

Andante, Enchant, Cat Scratch Fever, Bell

eligible to be nominated:

PookyTheMagicalBear, Andante, Enchant, Menalque, Bell

ineligible to be nominated:

Dwlee99, GuiltyLion, Cat Scratch Fever

mod notes:

• Menalque v/la weekends.
  
• the vote counter is acting weird and i'm counting votes by hand, let me know if i make any mistakes.

[Bell]

Oh. Yeah that’s a meltdown all right and he was town there? He was more conducive at the beginning of the game.

[Bell]

Rather, he was protown until meltdown. But eh, apples/oranges.
I dunno. He’s meltdowning a lot recently I guess then.
That’s…hmm.

[Bell]

If pooky is scum, then I may not be

I was thinking that, but I wasn’t gunna say it.

[Bell]

I suppose I just have to re-examine.
I just disagree with Titus here. I think Andante is town. /:even though I feel strangely compelled to sheep there after reading their posts.
Well, it’s not that strange. I’ve done this with Titus before with varying levels of success.

[Bell]

if i was like scum

i wouldve shot you like days ago

Got protected N2. I think by Andres. But like, eh. I c wut u tried 2 do there. As either alignment/you weren’t paying attention.

[Bell]

Reviewed.
It’s down to pooky or enchant imo.

[Dwlee99]

Yea and Strange is scum

[GuiltyLion]

I got to page 25 yesterday, gonna keep rereading from there for a bit as I lay in bed

Also pooky's interactions with VPB and MT on D1 don't look aligned. pooky kept trying to engage MT and getting stonewalled by her. I guess if they were SvS, the explanation for this would be MT was just not confident in her scum abilities to keep an SvS conversation going, but it seemed more like MT was afraid to interact with pooky to me? I'd appreciate a second opinion on this.

Which MT posts give you that impression? I've been rereading specifically looking for things that look unaligned to me and I haven't seen anything that made me think Pooky was definitely unaligned with the scums. And on a pure gut level 366 and 416 from VPB felt a lot like teammate interactions, though I know from a rational perspective it's prob NAI since I can imagine worlds where that's T-S

Reviewed.
It’s down to pooky or enchant imo.

can you do me a solid and explain why you have me as town? I'm a lil worried I could be a game losing miselim if we miss today and I think the N2 hood should be a solid piece of evidence for me not being scum here but if you die I'll be the only person remaining from it

[GuiltyLion]

- 595 hmm bad vibes here from menalque

This is the only other spot where I was like 'huh?' on your analysis.

Why does that post give you bad vibes?

again not the strongest evidence but I feel like this is usually not a post scum makes if they're partnered with Menalque

[GuiltyLion]

892 is interesting, I don't think that can't come from town!Pooky but it sure is a convenient reason not to join or encourage a budding MT wagon

[GuiltyLion]

not that anyone's really scumreading CSF but 998 is not a post that comes from scum!VPB in a scum!CSF world, that's a post that comes from a nervous scum and it exists solely to try to throw townies off the right track, if CSF was distancing he wouldn't be threatened and I smell a lot of fear in that post

[GuiltyLion]

FOUND IT VP!!!! Pick your poison

So I read your ISO in this game....we were not good at reading each other! You were scumreading me there for terrible reasons too, and I hadn't played with you before, so took your bad faith reading as scum motivation.

I think I understand you a little better since then and wouldn't get a scumread on you for those same foolish reasons.

I still don't see how that game was the basis for your scumread on me here tho, when you didn't really get my town game there either....

doesn't really feel like theater to me, feels like buddying

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I got to page 25 yesterday, gonna keep rereading from there for a bit as I lay in bed

Also pooky's interactions with VPB and MT on D1 don't look aligned. pooky kept trying to engage MT and getting stonewalled by her. I guess if they were SvS, the explanation for this would be MT was just not confident in her scum abilities to keep an SvS conversation going, but it seemed more like MT was afraid to interact with pooky to me? I'd appreciate a second opinion on this.

Which MT posts give you that impression? I've been rereading specifically looking for things that look unaligned to me and I haven't seen anything that made me think Pooky was definitely unaligned with the scums. And on a pure gut level 366 and 416 from VPB felt a lot like teammate interactions, though I know from a rational perspective it's prob NAI since I can imagine worlds where that's T-S

These were the posts MT didn't respond to, and it feels like she didn't know how to respond to them

Spoiler:

see how what is going to beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

did you roll scum or something

tweetie do you think I am "polished scum" ?

GL still lines up with my impression of him as scum

can you elaborate on this? what is setting off your bat sensors?

[GuiltyLion]

aaah it's the absence of posts, I see

yeah, it does feel like she doesn't feel comfortable talking to him. and I did notice she ghosted the thread after 1092. I don't think this strongly points to Pooky town but it is a decent point in his favor

[GuiltyLion]

"you can't townread cephrir for being the only one to think about this because i did too. but i didn't really since it was a half baked idea"

plz tell me what is wrong with my characterization or what the town motivation is

Lol, Greeting can certainly townread you for it. Just wasn't your idea. Credit where it's due.

Maybe you came to the conclusion independently, idk. Just saying you definitely weren't the first person to bring it up. I think greeting is more town than you, so I'd prefer they have all the information when making their decision on reads. That's my motivation.

This is a perspective slip because of what's unsaid here.

from VPB!town's POV - he should be townreading cephrir for having the same thought process as he does - unless he wants to claim that Cephrir is just plagiarizing him 800 posts later or w/e but that's clearly not his intent as he didn't even state things in the way Cephrir did.

Instead he seems peeved that Cephrir is getting town-read for a post that he already made - the goal isn't actually because he thinks Cephrir is scum - he just wants his own town cred for "saying something similar" which is kind of ????

Like this game isn't about seeing who can score the most town!points for statements about game state - this game is about sorting between bad guys and good guys. VP's entire conversation with Cephrir isn't about sorting Cephrir - it's about saying oh it's unfair Ceph is getting credit for something that I already said sort of kind of - which is not a town mindset.

I think a big question for this game is

a) If town!Pooky, why does scum put VPB into his hood on N1 after Pooky posts this pretty damning (in hindsight) point against VPB
b) if town!Pooky, how did he evolve from here to helping VPB defuse the bomb?

Menalque brought this up in his case against Pooky and I do think it feels wonky that scum put VPB in a hood with Pooky and VPB walked out of it alive, when Pooky was scumraeding VPB D1 and is enough of a loose cannon that I fully believe he wouldn't be afraid to vig a scumread

[Cat Scratch Fever]

- 595 hmm bad vibes here from menalque

This is the only other spot where I was like 'huh?' on your analysis.

Why does that post give you bad vibes?

again not the strongest evidence but I feel like this is usually not a post scum makes if they're partnered with Menalque

I'm probably biased, but looking at VPB's interactions, I feel like he only went hard against town in the first few days (me, Strange, Andres, tried to go on Titus a bit before swinging back to mala).

And looking at how VPB treated Mena with white gloves doesn't make me want to TR him. E.g. this post from Day 3 had zero follow up:

Spoiler: VP talking about Mena

VOTE: baltar

Kitty save kitty.

oh, and lastly that despite frog's (probable) relative insanity, his flipping town does mean that all of GL/andres/andante should be looked at again, and what frog said about the PT does actually need to be weighed

While I'm glad you're ready to look at andres again, I doubt froggy has much of value to comb over considering he seemed to have lied about his role and did murder an IC. What is your thought on greeting, btw?

Contrast that to this:

Spoiler: VP talking to Andante

yeah umm VP having 2 bombs worries me tbh, and going "frog had value!!! must read into it!!" is not something I really want to deal with... frog just trolled around in the PT why are you implying all 3 of me greeting andres lied about what went on??

Uh...this is not what I said at all.

yeah umm VP having 2 bombs worries me tbh, and going "frog had value!!! must read into it!!" is not something I really want to deal with... frog just trolled around in the PT why are you implying all 3 of me greeting andres lied about what went on??

Uh...this is not what I said at all.

You going to reply to this andante?

I also find your reads incredibly stagnant. You were on me D1, then you found a reason to get off me with frogster, now you're back on me. I think your strange vote lacks inspiration (and conviction since you voted with her like two seconds later).

I really don't know who you actually think is scum and why you think that.

how are my reads stagnant?

They're boring and unchanging based upon new information. If you would like me to cite a dictionary for you, I will.

He also didn't hardpush Enchant either I guess fwiw, so like this doesn't lock Mena as scum but I definitely don't think those easy softball questions in VP's ISO should be used to townread Mena

But I definitely got the overall vibe that VP didn't want to hardbus unless he had to (he did hardbus with Misty but presumably because he "had to")

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I think a big question for this game is

a) If town!Pooky, why does scum put VPB into his hood on N1 after Pooky posts this pretty damning (in hindsight) point against VPB
b) if town!Pooky, how did he evolve from here to helping VPB defuse the bomb?

Menalque brought this up in his case against Pooky and I do think it feels wonky that scum put VPB in a hood with Pooky and VPB walked out of it alive, when Pooky was scumraeding VPB D1 and is enough of a loose cannon that I fully believe he wouldn't be afraid to vig a scumread

Is this at pooky or anyone in the N1 hood?

[GuiltyLion]

oh I was thinking from the perspective of managing optics, like if Menalque is scum VPB is blatantly defending him there in the least effective way possible, it just doesn't seem like a post made with intention to mask an associative between them if he were to flip. "Can you explain why you scumread my buddy?" is not something I usually see. But then again VPB posted content non-stop so maybe he's not a "sweat the associatives" scum like I am

CSF can you (/have you already) summarized th N1 thread in terms of how Menalque and Pooky each talked about VPB? Do you buy that Pooky was willing to kill VPB and let himself get talked down by Menalque specifically? Is there anything in that hood that really stands out to you?

[GuiltyLion]

I mean, if there's actual meta with the only being nice as maf, I'll back this read, do you have an example of a game where he was nice as maf?

i haven't played vs scum!him since like 2009? 2010?

every game i've played vs him is TvT and we basically scream at each other for like 40 pages about how the other person is a giant scumfuck and eventually we figure out we're town.

actually aaaa

I am thinking about this post a lot.

I think if Pooky believes this, and was scum with VPB in this game, they would have theatered really hard, right? Like if I'm scum!Pooky and I wanna endgame and I'm buds with VPB I woulda played up a massive, massive, game long fight to the point where no one could possibly think we were aligned. basically what I did with goats in white flag.

but their fights in this game, especially D1 were pretty mild? Pooky dropped it for a lot of D2/D3? I dunno if scum!him would post this while consciously not trying to replicate his T-T meta with VPB or make a giant show of it.

I'm about to fall asleep and I'll sleep on it but this post in particular is making me think Pooky is town

[GuiltyLion]

is it just Mena after all

have I effectively exhausted every avenue of paranoia around Andante/Enchant/Pooky yet before coming back to the obvious answer

[GuiltyLion]

cuz from what i remember of your d1 play when you get heat, you usually just tell everyone to fuck off and claim you are town and refuse to give a shit

here you're doing some real performative bendy twisty readlist that looks like you basically just pulled up isos one by one and wrote some shit out like some kid who hasn't done his homework and is busy trying to write it all out b4 the teacher shows up.

I do find it kind of funny that right after I point out you're not really a presence in this game and haven't even attacked me, which is highly unusual for town!pooky, you magically show up and try to play tough.

Hmm, ok ok, noted down, bear .

yea being nice cuz he's a scumbag

I can definitely be meaner. I don't think it's always very good for games when I am and I'm trying to be better about that generally.

Nothing this game has really gotten me tilted though either.

and these feel like VPB doesn't actually want to fight with Pooky

I know not everyone plays scum the way I do but if I'm scum I'm ramping up the dis-associative playz at this point, not trying to throw cold water on our nice little fight we got goin. like if I were Pooky I'd be telling VPB in the scum PT to come at me

[Cat Scratch Fever]

N1 PT was 7 pages total

There was some initial talk about why Andres was an expert and catboi was the defuser. There was generally a good deal of talk about Andres since that was VPB's primary scumread.

Cephrir was lightly townreading VPB and leaned toward saving, but also his TR was not that strong so he was ultimately fine with either saving or blowing him up

I started doubting my scumread on VPB, since I liked his push on andres and I didn't think scum would put scum!VP as defuser.

pooky initially came in and was like VPB you're going to die
then reconsidered a bit after VPB started pushing an Andres/pooky team
I'd say he was the most reluctant to save VPB by a good deal

Mena came in last and said we should be defusing all bombs because this game is like SH (Secret Hitler, I'm assuming), and you can get some info by trying to defuse all bombs and see which ones succeed/fail.
He solved his part really fast.
I asked him if he knew about scum's 4 defuse alternate wincon after he already posted his solve and he claimed he didn't.

So Mena was first to post his solve, then Cephrir, me, pooky in that order.

i'll try to give a post-by-post recap of the important part that went down:

- Pooky came into the thread and was all like "VP you're dying tonight" (the "bluster")

- VP then made a post that could be construed as pocketing towards pooky

- pooky said pocketing him wasn't going to work

- and then VP started ATE'ing and said pooky was bad and referenced some Legend of the Hidden Temple game

- then VP said pooky was probscum in the very next post

- VP started towncasing himself and started pushing Andres/pooky as a team and accused pooky of doing nothing N1

- that's when pooky seemed to reconsider.

- next post, cephrir also said vpb was kinda towny too

so yeah, I get the groupthink defense that Pooky was saying, bc tbf to him, no one was pushing VP as much as we should've >_<

I don't think Mena initiated convo with VP all that much or really talked about his VP read in the PT. Instead VP was the one asking Mena questions (he asked Mena why he lolhammered fire and what Mena thought of Andres)

idk if this helps at all

[Cat Scratch Fever]

is it just Mena after all

have I effectively exhausted every avenue of paranoia around Andante/Enchant/Pooky yet before coming back to the obvious answer

lmfao this game is driving me up a wall too

[Cat Scratch Fever]

wait why is Enchant not scum?