Open 853 - PYP X/Y S_S [game over!]

[Titus]

Getting bad vibes from mathblade

Slight heartburn from ari

Good vibes from dwlee and HQ

Interesting. Why on the others?

For the me I am going to assume that’s SOP considering how many times I have smoked you as scum before.

SOP?

Standard Operating Procedure

is mathblade TMIing STD!town in this post?

The answer to that is no.

You’re more than welcome to suggest that though to help sort me.

You’ll find that fundamentally wrong but part of finding scum is suggesting a hypothesis then falsifying it so… *shrug*

That would be very very abnormal for you. What's your angle?

[Titus]

I'm townbinning everyone with a number above 100

we are masons as far as I am concerned.

if this turns out to be tragically wrong later it's not my fault

I agree titus probably town, less convinced about anyone else in that set

I want to see more from her but imho this is more scum indicative or NAI than town

Titus has been hella busy. I think whatever her alignment she’d want the vanilla version to avoid possibly screwing over whatever team she is on.

I am not going to speculate on this until dead chat. However, deliberately picking vanilla is stupid.

[MathBlade]

Getting bad vibes from mathblade

Slight heartburn from ari

Good vibes from dwlee and HQ

Interesting. Why on the others?

For the me I am going to assume that’s SOP considering how many times I have smoked you as scum before.

SOP?

Standard Operating Procedure

is mathblade TMIing STD!town in this post?

The answer to that is no.

You’re more than welcome to suggest that though to help sort me.

You’ll find that fundamentally wrong but part of finding scum is suggesting a hypothesis then falsifying it so… *shrug*

That would be very very abnormal for you. What's your angle?

It’s not. I use the “Assume I am scum …” etc phrasing a lot.

I think StD if town will see me as town. It’s a matter of time

[Titus]

Math HEM Mala thoughts? Maybe Math sub with Roden

[implosion]

An unordered smattering of thoughts.

1) The more time passes, the more I don't really buy that Enchant should be 100% no-holds-barred off the table today. There's no universe in which scum are gonna NK them over e.g. HQ and Gamma, who are 2nd and 3rd in the draft and widely townread. They are Simply Not Playing The Game. They're going to continue not playing the game on future days. And yes, they're a guaranteed PR... which includes as scum. Enchant could be a scum 1-shot vig or 2-shot PGO, among other dangerous roles. Shouldn't whether or not they're a good elimination depend at least a little bit on whether or not they're scummy? And right now they're playing exactly the same game (read: non-game) they played in chromavalon.

2) StD, Aristeia, softly mathblade but don't push me on it because I have no actual reason (and I'm open to hearing arguments from StD but I don't right now see it), and HQ (but not as strongly as some people have been saying) are recently townish.

3) I'm not wed to the hem wagon. But I do like it. I think hem's behavior makes quite a lot of sense as scum; their play feels much more aesthetic than substantive. Asking people what they think of things, but not until recently really starting to take any real stances on their wagon; I think town in hem's position is like, a little caught between a rock and a hard place because no one was biting on the aristeia suspicion. But even so the play around her feels really awkward and almost unmotivated - like he never really had all that much impetus for people to vote for aristeia, just for them to be able to call her scum and to defend themself. Disclaimer in that I didn't really re-read their ISO before typing this so maybe it's bunk but yeah.

4) The reason I'm not wed to the hem wagon is that there's an unusually large number of people that I feel are pretty good potential scum. I see lots of potential in Roden, Dwlee, Enchant to be scum, and there's others who I don't have a bead on like Mala and Bellaphant and maybe Titus who I wouldn't be opposed to pressuring. But saying the wagon "stalled out" as an L-2 wagon this early in the game feels... wrong.

[Titus]

@Math, it's the false hypothesis comment that irks me

[Titus]

Ergh,

Implo just cratered again

[implosion]

Do tell.

[MathBlade]

I'm townbinning everyone with a number above 100

we are masons as far as I am concerned.

if this turns out to be tragically wrong later it's not my fault

I agree titus probably town, less convinced about anyone else in that set

I want to see more from her but imho this is more scum indicative or NAI than town

Titus has been hella busy. I think whatever her alignment she’d want the vanilla version to avoid possibly screwing over whatever team she is on.

How do you read Titus’ play rn?

I am not sure.

The fact she hasn’t instantly hit my scum dar means something but last game I knew you were town so I knew Titus’s push was bad and could leverage that so it gave me a distinct advantage to read her. Between that and the hood she was obvious.

Her alignment here isn’t obvious yet.

[Titus]

Meh changing it up

HEM Implosion Mala/Roden...... then maybe Math.

That last Implosion post fished 6 alternative wagons to HEM while claiming to be ok with an HEM wagon.

[implosion]

I am okay with an HEM wagon and am in fact on the wagon

[MathBlade]

@Math, it's the false hypothesis comment that irks me

That’s literally how science works.

You build a hypothesis and test it.

StD has a hypothesis I am scum.

I know it’s false but unless I allow him to test it then it becomes extremely antitown.

I build hypothesis and test them.

My StD hypothesis was falsified so I think StD is town.

I had a similar hypothesis with you when I was gunsmith.

[MathBlade]

Meh changing it up

HEM Implosion Mala/Roden...... then maybe Math.

That last Implosion post fished 6 alternative wagons to HEM while claiming to be ok with an HEM wagon.

I kinda don’t think HEM is scum.

I am not sure how to explain it though so let’s go with gut.

[Titus]

I am okay with an HEM wagon and am in fact on the wagon

Then why shop 6 alternatives?

[MathBlade]

An unordered smattering of thoughts.

1) The more time passes, the more I don't really buy that Enchant should be 100% no-holds-barred off the table today. There's no universe in which scum are gonna NK them over e.g. HQ and Gamma, who are 2nd and 3rd in the draft and widely townread. They are Simply Not Playing The Game. They're going to continue not playing the game on future days. And yes, they're a guaranteed PR... which includes as scum. Enchant could be a scum 1-shot vig or 2-shot PGO, among other dangerous roles. Shouldn't whether or not they're a good elimination depend at least a little bit on whether or not they're scummy? And right now they're playing exactly the same game (read: non-game) they played in chromavalon.

2) StD, Aristeia, softly mathblade but don't push me on it because I have no actual reason (and I'm open to hearing arguments from StD but I don't right now see it), and HQ (but not as strongly as some people have been saying) are recently townish.

3) I'm not wed to the hem wagon. But I do like it. I think hem's behavior makes quite a lot of sense as scum; their play feels much more aesthetic than substantive. Asking people what they think of things, but not until recently really starting to take any real stances on their wagon; I think town in hem's position is like, a little caught between a rock and a hard place because no one was biting on the aristeia suspicion. But even so the play around her feels really awkward and almost unmotivated - like he never really had all that much impetus for people to vote for aristeia, just for them to be able to call her scum and to defend themself. Disclaimer in that I didn't really re-read their ISO before typing this so maybe it's bunk but yeah.

4) The reason I'm not wed to the hem wagon is that there's an unusually large number of people that I feel are pretty good potential scum. I see lots of potential in Roden, Dwlee, Enchant to be scum, and there's others who I don't have a bead on like Mala and Bellaphant and maybe Titus who I wouldn't be opposed to pressuring. But saying the wagon "stalled out" as an L-2 wagon this early in the game feels... wrong.

Wouldn’t you scumread me because I am the one who said it stalled out?

[Aristeia]

1) The more time passes, the more I don't really buy that Enchant should be 100% no-holds-barred off the table today. There's no universe in which scum are gonna NK them over e.g. HQ and Gamma, who are 2nd and 3rd in the draft and widely townread. They are Simply Not Playing The Game. They're going to continue not playing the game on future days. And yes, they're a guaranteed PR... which includes as scum. Enchant could be a scum 1-shot vig or 2-shot PGO, among other dangerous roles. Shouldn't whether or not they're a good elimination depend at least a little bit on whether or not they're scummy? And right now they're playing exactly the same game (read: non-game) they played in chromavalon.

the way I think about Enchant is as follows[do not respond to this in any way that outs your role pls]

Even if Enchant is scum, they should be Ascetic Cop because denying town the most powerful TPR is much stronger than gaining an extra kill via say 1 shot vig imo.

Let's say in both worlds Enchant is an Ascetic Cop because it is the strongest TPR [this is an assumption]

Scum are obligated to kill Enchant rather than let Enchant get a bunch of results. If scum leave him alive for 2 nights and we paranoia lim him on day 3, he will out 2 results which is basically like giving us 2 masons or better if he finds scum.

as for PGO being a threat - um I don't really think it makes any sense for any town role to target enchant ever - if they r scum, they will be outted by the virtue of not dying. If they are town, um whats the point of targetting them?

I do agree he is quite scummy by not playing but I've seen him not play as town b4 so it's kind of like ~shrug~. If he's scum he will get outted anyway by virtue of living too long.

[humaneatingmonkey]

why is shopping a scumtell titus

[implosion]

Wouldn’t you scumread me because I am the one who said it stalled out?

I disagree with you, but I don't think it's scummy to call it stalled out, just incorrect. Hence, "wrong".

I am okay with an HEM wagon and am in fact on the wagon

Then why shop 6 alternatives?

Why not?

[Titus]

Ok. They're just open wolfing at this point.

[Roden]

I am okay with an HEM wagon and am in fact on the wagon

You seem ready to jump ship the moment someone else starts getting pressured though.

[MathBlade]

1) The more time passes, the more I don't really buy that Enchant should be 100% no-holds-barred off the table today. There's no universe in which scum are gonna NK them over e.g. HQ and Gamma, who are 2nd and 3rd in the draft and widely townread. They are Simply Not Playing The Game. They're going to continue not playing the game on future days. And yes, they're a guaranteed PR... which includes as scum. Enchant could be a scum 1-shot vig or 2-shot PGO, among other dangerous roles. Shouldn't whether or not they're a good elimination depend at least a little bit on whether or not they're scummy? And right now they're playing exactly the same game (read: non-game) they played in chromavalon.

the way I think about Enchant is as follows[do not respond to this in any way that outs your role pls]

Even if Enchant is scum, they should be Ascetic Cop because denying town the most powerful TPR is much stronger than gaining an extra kill via say 1 shot vig imo.

Let's say in both worlds Enchant is an Ascetic Cop because it is the strongest TPR [this is an assumption]

Scum are obligated to kill Enchant rather than let Enchant get a bunch of results. If scum leave him alive for 2 nights and we paranoia lim him on day 3, he will out 2 results which is basically like giving us 2 masons or better if he finds scum.

as for PGO being a threat - um I don't really think it makes any sense for any town role to target enchant ever - if they r scum, they will be outted by the virtue of not dying. If they are town, um whats the point of targetting them?

I do agree he is quite scummy by not playing but I've seen him not play as town b4 so it's kind of like ~shrug~. If he's scum he will get outted anyway by virtue of living too long.

This argument doesn’t sit right with me. I think it’s wrong, but I think it’s antitown to correct this assumption.

[MathBlade]

I am okay with an HEM wagon and am in fact on the wagon

You seem ready to jump ship the moment someone else starts getting pressured though.

I could see HEM + Implosion if I am wrong on HEM I don’t think i am though.

[implosion]

-snip-

I think Enchant is the kind of player who could easily yolo pick a killing role or a blocking role or something. I'm not going to push it hard right now, mostly because yes, it is true that if we paranoia-lim Enchant d3 and they are an ascetic cop we get 2 results. But I am going to be *really mad* if they don't get limmed d3-4 if they keep playing this way.I guess frankly I'm just very annoyed at what they're doing, because I had to play a game where they were doing this and I had to hold my tongue because it was chromavalon and I was their merlin, and this time I don't have to hold my tongue.

[implosion]

I am okay with an HEM wagon and am in fact on the wagon

You seem ready to jump ship the moment someone else starts getting pressured though.

I am! It's early in the day and I don't see why I should bind myself to a wagon I like right now.

I really just don't view the game of mafia the same way Titus does where there's some grand explanation of things; I am voting HEM because I want to vote HEM right now and wouldn't mind if the wagon went through, and there's lots of other players that I think are also good lims or who are low-info slots that could use more info before d1 ends.

[GeorgeBailey]

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