Open 853 - PYP X/Y S_S [game over!]

[humaneatingmonkey]

Ari I'm answering you case right now

[Titus]

I’ve not decided yet. Rn, I lean to voting HEM but feel kind’ve icky doing it while the dude is in surgery. I don’t vote just for the sake of voting ever and I won’t be pressured into doing it.

However, I’m far from confident on that read or any other. I have more confidence in who I think is likely town. I don’t have any confident srs yet.

Who are your current TRs? I am wanting to bounce off you when I finish the catchup.

[Titus]

Why are people townreading math when his read on me is awful

You can’t parse Math solely based off of reads. I don’t agree with his reads but he’s reminding me quite a bit here of White Flag.

Agreed. His objective and how he pushes it is how you read him. Similar to me but different tones.

[Titus]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=22566

Anyway, White Flag

I'm not reading this without a specific thing to look for but White Flag does bare structural similarities. Was he similarly standoffish on wagons being pushed on town?

[Titus]

I’m really not trying to be either argumentative or difficult but there are some games where I’ve done things that are pretty much impossible for me to ever replicate as scum and HDP is definitely one of those games and imo, anyone. not being able to clearly see I was town in that, isn’t imho okay at reading me. If you misread me in a game where it is far less obvious than that one, I’d view it differently.

I think it's just because posts like these more likely come from town!you vs scum!you.

To add on to this, I don't really get the sense that you're trying to get town read. I think you're just vibing in this game and suspicious of the fact that you're getting town read for it vs when you do actively try to get town read and don't succeed.

This is matching my thoughts as well. In particular the meta invitation, rather than a conclusion felt rather town from HQ. Same with StD interactions. It could be borrowing a page from my or math's playbook but I think it's a bit more smooth than it would be if coached.

[Titus]

sorry
you saying FL caused me to bluescreen

anyway Math can have bad reads as town but like Titus there's generally at least an ability to understand where he's coming from
I also think he's generating a lot of friction which feels like it might be indicative of scum!him?
in addition Klick basically did a rinse-repeat of the last time I saw him as scum

Can you talk more about Klick here?

[Titus]

I had a look at the playerlist and Roden is the only one who'll get this so I'll ask him

@Roden

, should I do that thing I did in radio buzz where I reread the game with my top TRs locked in and figured out who looked suspect based on that consideration?

I don't think it would hurt. In Radio Buzz, the town block formed early on and scum couldn't figure out how to break in. Though in my case the posting was also just a bit too much for me to keep up, which doesn't seem like too big of a problem in this game. If nothing else, I think looking at your town block and then seeing who's trying to discredit it and break it up would be helpful.

I like this posting in a way, scum need to infect a townblock. It gives some motivation to scum!Math, misfade HEM with no scum, cause town block to turn on itself.

[Roden]

He moved the game towards talking reads and instead of working on reads y’all dog piled on HEM for asking the purpose rather than dragging it down in RVS mech theories

This isn't true. I had to tell him to move on multiple times because he kept complaining about the numbers and Ari in general. He didn't want to move the game towards working on reads and instead preferred to keep arguing with Ari and make the Day's focus about their 1v1.

In particular, if hem's aim was to move the game toward talking about reads... why has he done so little talking about reads?

I don't remember who but someone said earlier that HEM's posting has just been aesthetic. I feel like that perfectly describes why it seems like he's had so little investment in making and discussing reads.

@ Roden,.I know you didn't ask me but this is exactly how math played in the team mafia game and they were town.

Do you think he's severely off with his reads and arguments? How would you describe his play in Team Mafia? I want to make sure we're on the same page here.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'll answer every point then in bold and caps to differentiate.

Spoiler: Explanation of why HEM is scum and his progression on me makes very little sense and is full of lies and gross inaccuracies/lies

initial vote - no explanation on why the vibes are bad or how they are different from other people.

NOT A LIE. ALSO EXPLAINED THIS.

note the timestamps on this - I really doubt town!hem really thinks I can take everyone's answers and give him numerical analysis because

(a) most people didn't respond or joke responded so I don't even have a data set to analyze

(b) it's like 5 hours between these posts.

(c) I don't think it's reasonable for him to expect me to give him an actual answer here so expecting one is kind of bad faith setting me up to fail and so he can continue his push.

HALF OF THE PEOPLE DID RESPOND. THEY DID NOT RESPOND IN JEST. YOU CAN RESPOND WHAT INTENTIONS YOU HAVE.
ALSO NOT A LIE.

this post is about the large number discussion I am having with Ausuka - he thinks it's not worth discussing because it's not great for reads and he wants to move on which is a kind of signaling. I believe scum!him thinks the context of the discussion is pointless - but this shouldn't actually be how town!him thinks because if he thinks I'm scum - then it should be good that Ausuka/Harley are pushing me on this. Instead he doesn't want them to interrogate me on my thoughts for ??? reasons.

I'M TRYING TO SORT YOU, SO I DON'T IMMEDIATELY WANT TO DISMISS YOU AS SCUM. I WANT US TO TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE THAT MIGHT GIVE LIGHT TO YOUR ALIGNMENT THAT ISN'T ABOUT WHAT WAS BEING DISCUSSED. THE MOST ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE THING THAT I THINK CAN BE ANALYZED HERE WAS HOW MUCH YOU THOUGHT THIS WILL HELP YOU SORT US, AND THAT'S WHY I WANTED YOU TO GET TO THE POINT. NOT A LIE.

here he's digging back in - now it's good for the number discussion because he sees it as something to use to push me. He tries to consolidate based on a narrative that scum!me was doing "false setup spec" on page 1? There's no discussion of actual motivation - he just finds this a covenient thing to attack with because Ausuka has been pushing me for it - you can tell he doesn't actually believe it because he doesn't really explain how it makes sense for scum!me to pursue this.

Notice the slip here - the second sentence implies that it's "bad town strategy to choose high numbers". As in he's thought about whether it'd be good for town to pick high numbers, he's concluded it's bad and thus I am "scummy" for doing this "bad thing" - except he's picked a even larger number than me - which is why he tries to pick up the slip with the idea that 80085 is personally sentimental and he's fine doing things that are not good strategy.

This feels like something self-conscious scum would do rather than town. because if town concluded that picking bad numbers is actually bad strategy - they would just

not do it

.

Here he seems to think it is bad for town to pick large number so i'm bad for picking a large number but he also has to bend himself into a pretzel to attack me for picking the large number while excusing himself for picking an even larger number.

HERE I ALREADY DISCUSSED WHAT THE VIBES WERE. IT WAS FROM YOU TELLING US THAT HIGH NUMBERS ARE TOWN WHEN YOU WERE TOWN YOURSELF AND ASKING PEOPLE THAT YOU

he voted me for vibes. him forgetting what he voted me for originally and instead hijacking ausuka's argument feels like he never really remembered what he voted for me for in the first place.

implying it was bullshit vote he decided to double down on because it happened to have momentum

NO I VOTED YOU FOR THAT. NOT A LIE.

this is just pure revisionist nonsense.

he did not vote me for my comment about large numbers - he voted me for vibes. he decided to change what he was pushing me for after he saw Ausuka pushing me for "large numbers" he never even mentioned the large numbers thing until AFTER Ausuka started pushing me for it. He had previously stated in 128 that he didn't think the number discussion about large numbers was even useful so he clearly did not CARE about large numbers. He's now changing his story as if he was pushing me for the large number theory to begin with.

WHAT DID YOU THINK THE VIBES WERE FOR? EVENTUALLY I THOUGHT THE NUMBERS DISCUSSIONS WAS NOT USEFUL, BUT WHERE DID I SAY I DIDN'T CARE FOR IT? I WANTED IT DONE AND EXPLAINED. THIS IS NOT A LIE.

this is the first "read" of someone other than me he's made.

it feels conveniently like scum trying to recruit an ally.

I would imagine he would've gotten reads of at least Ausuka for how she's pushing me about Large Numbers but instead he's basically said nothing about anyone's alignment other than tunneling me up to this point.

It does not feel like something organic

NOT A LIE. AUSUKA WAS EXCLUSIVELY ENGAGING YOU ON THE MERIT OF YOUR NUMBERS DISCUSSION AND THERE WAS NOTHING TO MAKE SENSE OUT OF IT. GAMMA WAS LOOKING AT GAME-RELEVANT THINGS.

This is the part that really triggered me.

He is making the implication that I have not done enough to persuade people because I do not actually care about getting this information.

It's grossly bad faith because I have tried multiple times to convince people to give me three numbers - 45 57 58 76 80 115 121

I have tried to be nice about this. I do care.

For him to misrep me as "not caring" is a ridiculously bad faith interpretation of my efforts this game. It annoys me because either he hasn't read my posting or he doesn't care about my posting and he's just making up whatever fake narrative he thinks will make me look bad instead of actually examining if I actually care about this number guessing thought experiment.

I thought it would be fun to have everyone guess 3 numbers and see if we could get some info out of it because

(1) scum know what they picked(tmi) and they want to make their guesses look like town guesses
(2) town do not know what scum picked
(3) the information could be useful down the line, it might not be useful down the line, I don't really know but if there's some anomaly that pops up it could be cool to think about.

If nobody wants to do it I'm not going to hijack the thread and just rant about it for like 10 days? I can scumhunt fine without it so I was moving on but he comes back and claims its proof that I'm scum because ????

YOU DELIBERATELY REFUSED TO EXPLAIN WHAT YOU WANTED TO DO AFTER TAKING UP MUCH SPACE IN EARLY GAME. IT WAS ALL THAT WAS NEEDED FOR THE EXPERIMENT TO CONTINUE — TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF. NOT A LIE.

This is him trying to back away and pretending he was actually sorting in good faith/being nice.

Which is kind of ridiculous because as you can see above, roughly 90% of his posts are just shitpushing me with made up narratives and lies.

him claiming that I am "not motivated to solve the game" when I have double the number of posts of anyone else and I'm literally answering any questions sent to me and talking/engaging with multiple slots is ludicrious and a total lie.

also his line about wanting to "help me squeeze out answers" is complete bullshit - I challenge anyone to pick out a single post in his iso prior to this where he is "trying to help me"

IF THIS IS YOUR LINE OF THINKING, THEN I DON'T BLAME YOU FOR REACHING THIS CONCLUSION. BUT IT'S NOT A LIE.

this remark makes very little sense because he's trying to placate me and convince me not to come after him because he's refering to a game where we were T/T and we fought for a while - except

(1) he supposedly thinks im lockscum so why is he even worried about this?

(2) if he thinks i'm town where is the reconsideration/evaluation of my alignment? literally every post up to here is just shitpushing me for made up narratives in his head.

WHERE DID I SAY YOU WERE LOCKSCUM? THE RECONSIDERATION OF YOUR ALIGNMENT WAS THERE ALL ALONG. THIS IS NOT A LIE.

this feels like he's trying to de-escalate to prevent this 1v1 from going full nuclear -

but it doesn't actually make sense for town!him to de-escalate if he thinks I'm mafia

Like I'm right here for him to sort but instead of sorting he's trying to placate me and see if he can get me to back off

THIS IS FROM YOU USING BAD FAITH ADJECTIVES TO DOGWHISTLE THAT IM A PIECE OF SHIT.

more fake narrative nonsense. like I'm literally right there for him to sort but instead of asking me about my thoughts or literally anything game relevant he decides he wants to just try different colors of shade and see what works.

THIS IS HOW I FELT ABOUT YOU AND THIS IS NOT A LIE.

literally nothing in HEM's iso makes me think he is trying to sort me in good faith. literally most of his posts are shit tunneling me and I don't even think any of his reasoning is actually believable - his progression on me is literally a lie.

THE RECONSIDERATION OF YOUR ALIGNMENT WAS THERE ALL ALONG. THIS IS NOT A LIE.

blaming me for this 1v1 is kind of rich because his entire iso is a shit tunnel of me whereas I'm actually engaging with multiple people so it's just a gross misrep of how we got here.

THIS IS ALSO A GROSS MISREP OF HOW WE GOT HERE AND SELF-CENTERED IF YOU THINK YOUR PERSPECTIVE IS THE ONLY VALID ONE.

TLDR:

HEM is a player who enjoys using aggression as scum to get townread and push mis-elims.

AND ALSO AS SCUM TO READ PEOPLE AND PUSH SCUM.

I do not believe his push of me is in good faith, his progression is mostly made up and there are several glaring inconsistencies/outright lies.

THERE WAS NO LIE.

I have not felt like he is trying to sort me in good faith at any point during my conversation with him.

THE FEELING IS MUTUAL.

[Titus]

Like if Math is scum here, he’s playing extremely suboptimally no?

I'd like you to elaborate on this point. I'm not finding HEM partnered as an N1 scumflip is horrible yet the only partner I've seen is implosion and maaaybe Math in wifom. That's possible but it doesn't make much sense. I would be expecting someone to push the end of the day if HEM was town and scum felt in any danger of losing the flip or being eliminated themselves.

[humaneatingmonkey]

*Also as town to read people and push scum INB4 SCUMSLIP GOTCHA BOOYAH >.>

[Titus]

It’s more relational things

HEM I really don’t think he’s scum. I can look at the people who sus HEM yet don’t have a commitment to vote there

I scumread Dwlee as they’re not following their meta ans Titus is sus. The remainder I am sorting out

Unless you think Dwelee and I are partners, my "being sus" has no impact on a read on Dwlee. How are they "not following their meta"? Since when do you use meta to scumread someone?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'll come back later. Sorry to cut this short. Still not out of the hospital bed (can't walk yet so much pain)

[MathBlade]

I'll answer every point then in bold and caps to differentiate.

Spoiler: Explanation of why HEM is scum and his progression on me makes very little sense and is full of lies and gross inaccuracies/lies

initial vote - no explanation on why the vibes are bad or how they are different from other people.

NOT A LIE. ALSO EXPLAINED THIS.

note the timestamps on this - I really doubt town!hem really thinks I can take everyone's answers and give him numerical analysis because

(a) most people didn't respond or joke responded so I don't even have a data set to analyze

(b) it's like 5 hours between these posts.

(c) I don't think it's reasonable for him to expect me to give him an actual answer here so expecting one is kind of bad faith setting me up to fail and so he can continue his push.

HALF OF THE PEOPLE DID RESPOND. THEY DID NOT RESPOND IN JEST. YOU CAN RESPOND WHAT INTENTIONS YOU HAVE.
ALSO NOT A LIE.

this post is about the large number discussion I am having with Ausuka - he thinks it's not worth discussing because it's not great for reads and he wants to move on which is a kind of signaling. I believe scum!him thinks the context of the discussion is pointless - but this shouldn't actually be how town!him thinks because if he thinks I'm scum - then it should be good that Ausuka/Harley are pushing me on this. Instead he doesn't want them to interrogate me on my thoughts for ??? reasons.

I'M TRYING TO SORT YOU, SO I DON'T IMMEDIATELY WANT TO DISMISS YOU AS SCUM. I WANT US TO TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE THAT MIGHT GIVE LIGHT TO YOUR ALIGNMENT THAT ISN'T ABOUT WHAT WAS BEING DISCUSSED. THE MOST ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE THING THAT I THINK CAN BE ANALYZED HERE WAS HOW MUCH YOU THOUGHT THIS WILL HELP YOU SORT US, AND THAT'S WHY I WANTED YOU TO GET TO THE POINT. NOT A LIE.

here he's digging back in - now it's good for the number discussion because he sees it as something to use to push me. He tries to consolidate based on a narrative that scum!me was doing "false setup spec" on page 1? There's no discussion of actual motivation - he just finds this a covenient thing to attack with because Ausuka has been pushing me for it - you can tell he doesn't actually believe it because he doesn't really explain how it makes sense for scum!me to pursue this.

Notice the slip here - the second sentence implies that it's "bad town strategy to choose high numbers". As in he's thought about whether it'd be good for town to pick high numbers, he's concluded it's bad and thus I am "scummy" for doing this "bad thing" - except he's picked a even larger number than me - which is why he tries to pick up the slip with the idea that 80085 is personally sentimental and he's fine doing things that are not good strategy.

This feels like something self-conscious scum would do rather than town. because if town concluded that picking bad numbers is actually bad strategy - they would just

not do it

.

Here he seems to think it is bad for town to pick large number so i'm bad for picking a large number but he also has to bend himself into a pretzel to attack me for picking the large number while excusing himself for picking an even larger number.

HERE I ALREADY DISCUSSED WHAT THE VIBES WERE. IT WAS FROM YOU TELLING US THAT HIGH NUMBERS ARE TOWN WHEN YOU WERE TOWN YOURSELF AND ASKING PEOPLE THAT YOU

he voted me for vibes. him forgetting what he voted me for originally and instead hijacking ausuka's argument feels like he never really remembered what he voted for me for in the first place.

implying it was bullshit vote he decided to double down on because it happened to have momentum

NO I VOTED YOU FOR THAT. NOT A LIE.

this is just pure revisionist nonsense.

he did not vote me for my comment about large numbers - he voted me for vibes. he decided to change what he was pushing me for after he saw Ausuka pushing me for "large numbers" he never even mentioned the large numbers thing until AFTER Ausuka started pushing me for it. He had previously stated in 128 that he didn't think the number discussion about large numbers was even useful so he clearly did not CARE about large numbers. He's now changing his story as if he was pushing me for the large number theory to begin with.

WHAT DID YOU THINK THE VIBES WERE FOR? EVENTUALLY I THOUGHT THE NUMBERS DISCUSSIONS WAS NOT USEFUL, BUT WHERE DID I SAY I DIDN'T CARE FOR IT? I WANTED IT DONE AND EXPLAINED. THIS IS NOT A LIE.

this is the first "read" of someone other than me he's made.

it feels conveniently like scum trying to recruit an ally.

I would imagine he would've gotten reads of at least Ausuka for how she's pushing me about Large Numbers but instead he's basically said nothing about anyone's alignment other than tunneling me up to this point.

It does not feel like something organic

NOT A LIE. AUSUKA WAS EXCLUSIVELY ENGAGING YOU ON THE MERIT OF YOUR NUMBERS DISCUSSION AND THERE WAS NOTHING TO MAKE SENSE OUT OF IT. GAMMA WAS LOOKING AT GAME-RELEVANT THINGS.

This is the part that really triggered me.

He is making the implication that I have not done enough to persuade people because I do not actually care about getting this information.

It's grossly bad faith because I have tried multiple times to convince people to give me three numbers - 45 57 58 76 80 115 121

I have tried to be nice about this. I do care.

For him to misrep me as "not caring" is a ridiculously bad faith interpretation of my efforts this game. It annoys me because either he hasn't read my posting or he doesn't care about my posting and he's just making up whatever fake narrative he thinks will make me look bad instead of actually examining if I actually care about this number guessing thought experiment.

I thought it would be fun to have everyone guess 3 numbers and see if we could get some info out of it because

(1) scum know what they picked(tmi) and they want to make their guesses look like town guesses
(2) town do not know what scum picked
(3) the information could be useful down the line, it might not be useful down the line, I don't really know but if there's some anomaly that pops up it could be cool to think about.

If nobody wants to do it I'm not going to hijack the thread and just rant about it for like 10 days? I can scumhunt fine without it so I was moving on but he comes back and claims its proof that I'm scum because ????

YOU DELIBERATELY REFUSED TO EXPLAIN WHAT YOU WANTED TO DO AFTER TAKING UP MUCH SPACE IN EARLY GAME. IT WAS ALL THAT WAS NEEDED FOR THE EXPERIMENT TO CONTINUE — TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF. NOT A LIE.

This is him trying to back away and pretending he was actually sorting in good faith/being nice.

Which is kind of ridiculous because as you can see above, roughly 90% of his posts are just shitpushing me with made up narratives and lies.

him claiming that I am "not motivated to solve the game" when I have double the number of posts of anyone else and I'm literally answering any questions sent to me and talking/engaging with multiple slots is ludicrious and a total lie.

also his line about wanting to "help me squeeze out answers" is complete bullshit - I challenge anyone to pick out a single post in his iso prior to this where he is "trying to help me"

IF THIS IS YOUR LINE OF THINKING, THEN I DON'T BLAME YOU FOR REACHING THIS CONCLUSION. BUT IT'S NOT A LIE.

this remark makes very little sense because he's trying to placate me and convince me not to come after him because he's refering to a game where we were T/T and we fought for a while - except

(1) he supposedly thinks im lockscum so why is he even worried about this?

(2) if he thinks i'm town where is the reconsideration/evaluation of my alignment? literally every post up to here is just shitpushing me for made up narratives in his head.

WHERE DID I SAY YOU WERE LOCKSCUM? THE RECONSIDERATION OF YOUR ALIGNMENT WAS THERE ALL ALONG. THIS IS NOT A LIE.

this feels like he's trying to de-escalate to prevent this 1v1 from going full nuclear -

but it doesn't actually make sense for town!him to de-escalate if he thinks I'm mafia

Like I'm right here for him to sort but instead of sorting he's trying to placate me and see if he can get me to back off

THIS IS FROM YOU USING BAD FAITH ADJECTIVES TO DOGWHISTLE THAT IM A PIECE OF SHIT.

more fake narrative nonsense. like I'm literally right there for him to sort but instead of asking me about my thoughts or literally anything game relevant he decides he wants to just try different colors of shade and see what works.

THIS IS HOW I FELT ABOUT YOU AND THIS IS NOT A LIE.

literally nothing in HEM's iso makes me think he is trying to sort me in good faith. literally most of his posts are shit tunneling me and I don't even think any of his reasoning is actually believable - his progression on me is literally a lie.

THE RECONSIDERATION OF YOUR ALIGNMENT WAS THERE ALL ALONG. THIS IS NOT A LIE.

blaming me for this 1v1 is kind of rich because his entire iso is a shit tunnel of me whereas I'm actually engaging with multiple people so it's just a gross misrep of how we got here.

THIS IS ALSO A GROSS MISREP OF HOW WE GOT HERE AND SELF-CENTERED IF YOU THINK YOUR PERSPECTIVE IS THE ONLY VALID ONE.

TLDR:

HEM is a player who enjoys using aggression as scum to get townread and push mis-elims.

AND ALSO AS SCUM TO READ PEOPLE AND PUSH SCUM.

I do not believe his push of me is in good faith, his progression is mostly made up and there are several glaring inconsistencies/outright lies.

THERE WAS NO LIE.

I have not felt like he is trying to sort me in good faith at any point during my conversation with him.

THE FEELING IS MUTUAL.

Ari is town and a she

[Titus]

idk
but I dislike how he's being hard to work with when it comes to explaining reads
which is ironic because I think he pushed StD for that earlier

I don’t really see a point right now

HEM is the de facto elim

No one is going to change their minds

From HEM’s flip and who scum kill I can see where to go from here

I likely don’t die

There just literally is no point in it

My catchup is literally changing my mind on a lot.

VOTE: Mathblade

[MathBlade]

It’s more relational things

HEM I really don’t think he’s scum. I can look at the people who sus HEM yet don’t have a commitment to vote there

I scumread Dwlee as they’re not following their meta ans Titus is sus. The remainder I am sorting out

Unless you think Dwelee and I are partners, my "being sus" has no impact on a read on Dwlee. How are they "not following their meta"? Since when do you use meta to scumread someone?

I get enough done.
Dwlee not posting = scum
You don’t seem right

I am doing the naked no reasons everyone else does

[Titus]

You are

And so?

Tomorrow is a new day.

I can’t create a wagon

Without anyway to pressure anyone there isn’t a way to read anyone

We’re literally just waiting for the inevitable miselim

The group decided no one is moving their vote from HEM and Ari is there in spirit.

I would need almost the entire rest of the game to even mount anything worth a response

Game is just in stuck dead mode

The Math I know says a fuck you X is scum for like 50000 pages and sorts and gets theories based on these pushes. You giving up is a huge red flag to me.

[Aristeia]

THIS IS FROM YOU USING BAD FAITH ADJECTIVES TO DOGWHISTLE THAT IM A PIECE OF SHIT.

again

this is a game of mafia

it is a game of social deduction

some of us got dealt "mafia rolecards"

that does not make them "pieces of shit"

people have to be mafia for this game to actually work.

I do not know you outside of this game.

I would never say that you are a piece of shit because

I do not know you

This is probably the fourth time I've said this to you.

If you actually believe that my remarks are about you as a person rather than your play in a game where some of us have to lie then I suggest you report me to the appropriate site authorities rather than continue to AtE with this.

[Titus]

I don't think anyone said they don't want to talk about your scum reads. As far as what you said to me, you just kinda asked me what I thought of a Titus/Dwlee/Gamma team, and while I mostly disagreed with it I didn't say the first two were impossible by any means. I didn't get a response to it at all actually.

After I died in Flash Games I still kept up a bit and saw what you had to say about my read on Titus, so I know you can expound on what makes her scummy and when you think someone is reading her incorrectly.

As for Dwlee, you and Titus have opposing reads on them but I don't really understand why? I feel like that's something you can dig into here and feels really important for understanding the game state.

And if you really think HEM is town then you need to explain it, it's not worth hiding why you TR him if he gets mis-elim'd. You're not even implying that it would break any rules to explain it, so I don't get why you would hold back there.

This on steroids. Sure there's some reactionary push from Math possibly if he feels hopeless but he'd still try to get the lims through. He'd be patient and try to learn why he isn't as persuasive as some in fewer posts. It's an odd look. Math isn't lockscum by any stretch but I want him to try and play normally. Case, Listen, consider alternatives, find town work with them even if it means compromising.

That's the one thing Math can't do well is compromise.

[Titus]

I need to be sold on a scumread, however it does concern me that no one is really trying to save HEM and HEM not doing much could just be related to his just recovering from surgery, so it’s frustrating. Hopefully he does more tomorrow.

Also not sure why he’s claiming vt? It’s kind’ve antitown to do that in case he isn’t flipped and it doesn’t actually tell us anything about his alignment.

I would have claimed my selection if run up as a VT given that someone above has to have that selection and I think HEM is relatively low.

[Titus]

I’m gonna say Gamma and Roden are now my top trs.

As of now, I'm fine with you me Gamma Roden as a town core because of this catchup.

[Titus]

VOTE: HEM

I don't think it makes sense to elim Mathblade before HEM and I think there are several moments that are kind of townie for MB - like that time when he said I should know he's town or w/e.

Yuck.

[Titus]

Titus is debating moving off to me because she smells I am the bigger miselim but wants to be sure she can get me.

This post is the type of post that I usually expect from Mathblade. It's wrong and OMGUS but still what I expect.

[humaneatingmonkey]

THIS IS FROM YOU USING BAD FAITH ADJECTIVES TO DOGWHISTLE THAT IM A PIECE OF SHIT.

again

this is a game of mafia

it is a game of social deduction

some of us got dealt "mafia rolecards"

that does not make them "pieces of shit"

people have to be mafia for this game to actually work.

I do not know you outside of this game.

I would never say that you are a piece of shit because

I do not know you

This is probably the fourth time I've said this to you.

If you actually believe that my remarks are about you as a person rather than your play in a game where some of us have to lie then I suggest you report me to the appropriate site authorities rather than continue to AtE with this.

if you want me to explain my past behavior, you're gonna have to deal with how i felt at that moment. again and again and again.

[Titus]

Those who genuinely think HEM is scum would want to stay on HEM scum. They wouldn’t destroy one wagon to move to a maybe wagon where some people townread me.

Ergo HEM is town and I am town

Restart RVS if you have to.

This is actually a thing in this setup and sometimes oddly enough in not weird lims. People use wagons to feel each other out and don't just lock in the first one.