Open 853 - PYP X/Y S_S [game over!]

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw Titus, what does Housefly mean when you used it?

Housefly? I don't recall this. Context?

I probably read too far into something you said
You mentioned something about a Venus Fly Trap while talking to Math and I thought it was an Ovaltine decoder ring thing

[Titus]

Oh that.

That was me being a little blunt by using a metaphor. A housefly isn't going to brute force its way out of a Venus Fly Trap. It has to use finesse.

Math is trying to use brute force to persuade usually and it doesn't work here. He views coordination as his views being dominant because of how he perceives the world. He's not ready to have a conversation about how his mindset rubs people wrong on this site.

He prefers to think that it's the site viewing him negatively instead, which is his loss.

[Gamma Emerald]

Me and Math were in a game with a Venus Fly Trap once

[Titus]

It's frustrating because there needs to a middle ground between ignore math and 10 pages of why you're wrong when you're just getting thoughts down or discussing with other people.

It's like trying to watch an interactive, collaborative movie and someone keeps trying to change the script, pause it to analyze over and over or rush the ending when we're needing to go somewhere else to understand the story.

[Aristeia]

if we flip hem then the source of the disagreement goes away and math can focus on playing the game again

[Titus]

if we flip hem then the source of the disagreement goes away and math can focus on playing the game again

But Math never was playing before and isn't now. I see no drive from him to get scum eliminated. I see no efforts to persuade. I see no targeted questions. I see bickerings with HQ and Implosion but what assurances do we have Math will play since we didn't even get that until we ran him up? With an all town wagon?

[Titus]

If you think we can get more from him, then I'm fine with letting him go, but I'd rather go to wallflower. HEM is ok for VCA but I just feel better about Wallflower flipping scum.

[MathBlade]

The wagon on me is not all town

In the past three days I have had a 12,15,12 along with other obligations

I have made several cases on people and asked lots of questions of why

I would appreciate it if you didn’t say I am not playing because I am not the top poster (at least I don’t think I am)

[MathBlade]

Oh I am but I am not hyperposting

[MathBlade]

You can’t both say I should shut up and talk more that’s a lose lose

[Aristeia]

If you think we can get more from him, then I'm fine with letting him go, but I'd rather go to wallflower. HEM is ok for VCA but I just feel better about Wallflower flipping scum.

hem has literally nothing in his iso and just antispewing and claimed vanilla townie

[Titus]

You are the top poster. You're definitely not lurking either.

I have trouble seeing you "playing" when you can't put together a townblock of people you wouldn't eliminate. Maybe the word choice is bad but it feels more like you're seeking to win arguments than see people's thought processes and orchestrate theories of the game.

[Aristeia]

he has trouble thinking straight when he is aggravated and not getting his way. i think he'll be fine after hem flips.

[Roden]

mathblade tried pretty hard to derail the hem wagon he screamed, he was rude, he flung weird moonlogic everywhere - thats a sign of geniune belief imo and makes very little sense for scum!blade to do for town!hem

has hem done anything to derail the mathblade wagon?

HEM has been out of commission

yes but read his iso

he doesnt really defend mathblade even when he is here

This feels pretty important and I think it needs some emphasis on why this is AI

HEM's latest take is that wagons are getting pushed by scum to try to out PRs. However, he's pretty low on the draft list, so it doesn't make much sense to push him just to get info on where PRs are, and he continued to be a leading wagon even after he claimed VT anyway. The only other notable wagons were Ari, who never claimed since her wagon died early, Dwlee, who's even lower than HEM and also didn't claim, and Math, who didn't claim but is at the bottom of the draft and has no real chance to snag a PR. The narrative that scum are pushing wagons to PR hunt just doesn't make much sense.

Despite this, he tried to take his town read back on Math recently even though he had him as lock town earlier, and should be considered town if scum are hunting for PRs like he claimed. What I think is really going on is that he realized his logic was inherently flawed and that he needs to anti-spew his "read" on Math in case he gets elim'd first.

[Aristeia]

yea i forgot that pr pushing thing is literally nonsense since we have an ordered draft its not like the roles got dealt out randomly. scum more or less know where the powerful prs they have to shoot are.

[Titus]

he has trouble thinking straight when he is aggravated and not getting his way. i think he'll be fine after hem flips.

I'm not looking for thinking straight.

I'm looking for theories in a manageable number of posts and for Math to be judicious with the posts he does make. There's no reason he needed to triple post other than the fact he's rushing. He's going too fast and responding to the literal text rather than the intent. Sometimes the right words are hard on an individual level but right on a context level.

With fewer posts, each of his posts gets more attention because it doesn't take fifteen posts to get at his points.

@Roden and @Ari, I think an ISO of HEM's read of Math is in order.

[Titus]

Despite this, he tried to take his town read back on Math recently even though he had him as lock town earlier, and should be considered town if scum are hunting for PRs like he claimed. What I think is really going on is that he realized his logic was inherently flawed and that he needs to anti-spew his "read" on Math in case he gets elim'd first.

This is the most concerning thing here. Everyone and their brother has said Math is not playing to his usual town meta. Hell even Math doesn't dispute it. Yet HEM has Math as town.

In all games, if Math is trying to take the town towards HIS direction - Math town
If Math is trying to let the town do what they want and pander to existing talking points - Math scum

Ill die by this read

This doesn't make sense for HEM to be confident and waffle if he feels Math's meta is so clear.

[Roden]

You are the top poster. You're definitely not lurking either.

I have trouble seeing you "playing" when you can't put together a townblock of people you wouldn't eliminate. Maybe the word choice is bad but it feels more like you're seeking to win arguments than see people's thought processes and orchestrate theories of the game.

Yeahhhh I think this is what's happening. Math has been spending time arguing with people who heavily disagree with him and just think he's wrong or scum. I've tried multiple times to try to engage him on his reads and he just keeps ignoring me to fight with whoever is disagreeing the loudest.

[Titus]

I could see it as S v S. I also am rather pessimistic about building another wagon on Math but at the same time forcing a lim on Math isn't a hill I want to die on since HEM is also scummy. I don't want to vote HEM though because Math compromised and voted HEM and I've never seen town!Math do that so easily.

[Titus]

I mean it could just be HEM + Math with one of Wallflower, Implosion or [redacted] but I feel like I'm kinda stuck in a spot where I need to flip something.

[Titus]

Ari, if I vote HEM and die tonight, can you consider the possibility of Math scum and being open to limming him if necessary? If Harley and I die quick, I struggle to see who else could lead a Math elimination.

[Roden]

HEM + Math would be convenient and easy

I kinda think Math is town just because there has been such a massive divide on him. I feel like I've been put in this weird spot where I'm a bit of a swing vote, and have had several different people try to convince me of their reads on him.

[Aristeia]

i would be open to it sure. i just really dont think hes mafia.

[implosion]

HEM + Math would be convenient and easy

I kinda think Math is town just because there has been such a massive divide on him. I feel like I've been put in this weird spot where I'm a bit of a swing vote, and have had several different people try to convince me of their reads on him.

i vibe incredibly strongly with this post.

[implosion]

(well possibly excepting the part calling math town, i just... keep changing my mind on him over and over)