Newbie 2096 | Nathan For You | Endgame

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also,. even bbt flipping red OR green doesn't really clear anyone or massively indicate anyone. I think elim-ing in the pool that me and bbt have suggested gives more info.

Yep. Listen to Bella. We have a good scum pool. Let's elim from there.

Somnus/Corwin/Cheap. Let's go.

Corwin, how about that Somnus vote then?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Does it really matter if Rad's willing to follow Whiskey blindly? It's a token, if you want to try to do something meaningful instead of muddying shit up to stick to your meta.

I see. You want to be off my wagon if it goes through with votes from Whiskey and Rad?

Got it.

[Corwinoid]

I was feeling pretty sheepish after the Somnus/Spartan thing, but I'm starting to feel pretty damn confrontational right now. Stop trying to make me do your dirty work, you want to start the wagon start the fucking wagon and argue it. And for the love of god don't make it a hair brained town gambit. If Somnus IS town that's one of the dumbest plays I can think of--it's better to be alive than dead.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You really disliked Somnus' case that much? I don't remember you mentioning that...

I mean, you literally used it as your basis for voting me. So, what gives?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You didn't answer my question either; want to vote Somnus?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I have given plenty of arguments for Scum!Somnus, did you read them?

[Corwinoid]

You didn't answer my question either; want to vote Somnus?

He's not my first alternate, no.

I have given plenty of arguments for Scum!Somnus, did you read them?

Before or after my eyes glazed over Vasex' day 1 spam? (See kids, this is why flood-posting isn't useful). Give me the Cliff's notes.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

941

A reminder of how poor Corwin's vote on me was. Also a reminder that he used Somnus' case, which was very bad and now a case that he dislikes (?), to justify his vote on me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Cliff notes;

Avoided interacting with me early in the Day (I realise this is exclusive to me but it always catches my eye when people avoid me)

His reads are always associatives - Rad/BBT, Cheap/BBT and Bella/BBT. This has allowed him to tunnel me for all of D2 and not have to reconsider or engage with ANYTHING else. How does Somnus approach D3? He just says he needs to completely reset as his view was way off and it gives him freedom to vote almost anybody in ELo.

Actually look at his reads. They are always x is scum because y is scum which is how scum do it. It gives them two reads to vote in any given day phase and they never really have to do anything else.

Then there is, of course, the awful push on me and complete disengagement from Day Two. Like, complete disengagement. That's not how town play. Sure, he could be town tunneling but he is so scared of not getting my wagon through that he simply can't afford to entertain the thought of anything else. Again, allowing him a fresh start D3 in ELo.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Lots of little things. Potential greeting tell, the "suspicions" he had on you when you first entered the game look fake and borderline partnered, especially with how quickly that fell apart (205 looks absurd, as does 209), the exact note-taking style i used in my first scum game, the drunken hissy fit upon getting voted, etc. etc. etc.

You just give me a narrative of what happened.

Now tell me WHY it makes him scum.

Anyone seen BlueBlooded defend literally any other "wagon" like this?

Basis of his scum read. BBT is scum because he was defending Scum!Rad's wagon.

Bullshit.

[Corwinoid]

941

A reminder of how poor Corwin's vote on me was. Also a reminder that he used Somnus' case, which was very bad and now a case that he dislikes (?), to justify his vote on me.

God you are infuriating and making me regret not just letting you die today. I never liked Somnus' gambit, offering yourself as a lamb to slaughter from town is horrible--I've done it, I learned the hard way. But I definitely found it useful for generating some damn momentum into looking at you, now I want to look at other people I don't think got looked at hard enough D1; yes I'm aware of the irony.

It's 6am here, I haven't slept yet, I'll come back to this after I get at least a nap.

P-edit: I'll look at it when I get up

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You can always vote me again.

[Corwinoid]

I'll consider it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

A note about Somnus' read, he never re-evaluated after Rad started obvtowning. This is weird because the whole basis of his scum read was Scum!BBT defending Scum!Rad.

He just linked me to Cheap instead and used Spartan's NK/ISO to continue with the same read.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wow. 437 is actually the start of Somnus' scum read on me - he thinks I scum slipped into this thread from an accidental quote post. Like, that's where it starts.

Then he scum reads Rad, and votes him, because Rad says how ridiculous his scum read on me is. So Rad is actually scum because BBT is scum. But then BBT is scum because he stops a wagon on scum!Rad.

This is awful. Again, this is the BASIS for his reads. Where they very first came from and he has NEVER re-evaluated. Even after Rad obvtowned, he never revisited this idea.

He just happened to have the perfect angle to push from start of D2 with Spartan being killed so he could maintain his read and appear consistent.

[Corwinoid]

My head hit the pillow and I realized something: the lynchpin of my townlocking Somnus today is that the town gambit is so obviously noob town there's just no way it wasn't obvtown. But this is the guy with "red role fatigue", and enough scum experience now that yeah, I could absolutely see him doing something this audacious thinking second or third round newbies would have that exact read of it if they've seen/done it before, or not caring if he died to get out of the game.

I still haven't read your notes, but now I just want to see where this goes.

VOTE: Somnus

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Huh.

That is an interesting turn of events.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Somnus

[Bellaphant]

@corewin, because he is responding to a bunch of stuff the way I am, and I know I'm town. Plus I know we can work well together.

I'll read the next page now..

[Bellaphant]

I don't want to vote somnus until they respond to my response to their case.

[Rad]

To clarify, I don't mean to hedge and offload my responsibility to whiskey. I plan to continue to play as fully as I have been. I'll make my own reads and moves without relying on whiskey. But if whiskey comes in and tells me to vote bbt with him, I'm going to vote bbt and not over think it. And if he does that and bbt flips green, I'm not going to point my finger at whiskey for it. If that happened, I would park my vote on somnus without hesitation.

I'll start catching up on the latest stuff now. Looks juicy.

[Bellaphant]

That makes sense, rad.

[Rad]

My head hit the pillow and I realized something: the lynchpin of my townlocking Somnus today is that the town gambit is so obviously noob town there's just no way it wasn't obvtown. But this is the guy with "red role fatigue", and enough scum experience now that yeah, I could absolutely see him doing something this audacious thinking second or third round newbies would have that exact read of it if they've seen/done it before, or not caring if he died to get out of the game.

I still haven't read your notes, but now I just want to see where this goes.

VOTE: Somnus

This is kinda how I've been trying to reconcile somnus's play as well. Is he angry town and that was a town gambit or is he angry scum and he's just done with this shit.

Scum!somnus flips town!bbt is a frustrated scum sacrificing himself to remove his team's greatest threat. He doesn't want to play this game anymore but doesn't want to just throw it either.

Also I didn't get townie vibes from him trying to bully me into following his plan.

Never have I had a plan I believed this hard in as town. As scum though, sure, I can see this being a reasonable move. Confidence is key to pushing an agenda. I have no scum partner reads right now for a red flip somnus so at the very least, a scum!somnus has properly distanced himself from everyone.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Don't do pre-flip associatives. Get the information needed first and then go from there.

[Bellaphant]

What weirds me out is somnus said the same thing when pressured about vasex, who flipped town.