Open 853 - PYP X/Y S_S [game over!]

[Titus]

*eyeroll* Math, I try to save you if you're town and you literally object because it's me proposing it.

Like I don't know what to do with you.

[Wallflower]

Yeah no worries. I was probably being needlessly obtuse anyway.

My main thought today was that Implosion fits pretty well as a HEM partner, and honestly possibly with Math as well, but I haven't looked into that closely yet. But there are some key aspects of how implosion played D1 that are how I think a HEM buddy would have played it. For e.g. the initial hesitant bussing, feeling forced to double down after being called out, backing off slightly when other options may have been possible. I also was reconsidering the way that implosion interacted with me and my scumread there. I'm used to scum just shading me when I suspect them, but I think implosion's... almost-buddying in a way? also makes sense. Especially the part where implosion was using the same reasoning as me for certain reads.

The Math/Titus stuff is difficult for me to get my head around but I'm reading through Day 2 properly at the moment and I can see MathBlade as scum? I think if I came up with a way to explain it, it would just be justifying the opinion I'd already formed, but I guess as I said, I don't think I could justifiably not elim there. There were some things that bothered me, like the initial claim that Ausuka was lying about the JK (where I think town-Math would realise that there are other explanations for a lack of kill), or the insistence that Enchant MUST have a cop inno on him (which feels more like an attempt to emulate obstinate-town-Math than truly town-Math) but I don't know if those things are actually scummy or I'm just seeing them that way because of the JK claim, if that makes sense? Now that I've written it out it feels scummy to me, but I do try to be conscious of biases etc.

Otherwise, I haven't thought a WHOLE lot about reads, but I think HQ, Gamma, Dwlee, Aristeia, Titus are still townreads for me. Less sure of STD, but I haven't looked at his posts closely for while. Obviously more sure on Ausuka being town, and I think the way Roden went about the Voyeur claim was townie as well. Enchant's play Day 2 comes across as quite town to me, but I guess I could also see a Math/Enchant world where this is a hail mary type play.

If I'm wrong on implo or Math, I could maaaybe see Bella sneaking in as scum somewhere? But I think the way she claimed was probably town too?

[MathBlade]

*eyeroll* Math, I try to save you if you're town and you literally object because it's me proposing it.

Like I don't know what to do with you.

I am a fuckin VT

We don’t “mass claim” to save me

If you believe I am town you argue it

We don’t chop off the right arm to save a toenail.

I don’t think you’re town because almost everything from the word go has been terrible to me

[Wallflower]

uh

can you share reads anyway

Actually this is interesting. Up until this point, you'd done about just as much sharing of reads as I had. Why did you have particular interest in me sharing reads, or was it just to make me look bad?

[Save The Dragons]

how does sharing your reads when asked make you look bad

i'm trying to guess what you are since i don't really know where your head is at. if you want to know my reads i'm happy to give them but i have been giving them (mostly yesterday)

[Save The Dragons]

implosion

Harley Quinn
Gamma Emerald

Wallflower

Roden

Enchant

Dwlee99

Bellaphant

Ausuka

MathBlade

Aristeia

Titus

bigger size is how much i townread them

[Wallflower]

I feel like the way that Post 2997 was written (particularly the "uh") implies that it was unreasonable of me to not share more reads. But I was pretty clear on my reads Day 1 too, so I'm not sure whether you actually wanted my reads or if your post was just a safe post to make because it's a pretty classically "bad" thing for someone to not post reads.

[Save The Dragons]

are you

really scum reading me

for saying

'uh'

[Wallflower]

not really but it was worth a try

[Gamma Emerald]

implosion

Harley Quinn
Gamma Emerald

Wallflower

Roden

Enchant

Dwlee99

Bellaphant

Ausuka

MathBlade

Aristeia

Titus

bigger size is how much i townread them

this is my favorite readlist in any game ever

[Gamma Emerald]

not really but it was worth a try

:/

[MathBlade]

You shoulda just made me Pi not MathBlade and in font size Pi.

Then your read would be tiny, go on forever, and just be irrational

[Save The Dragons]

too bad it's none of those things

[Titus]

*eyeroll* Math, I try to save you if you're town and you literally object because it's me proposing it.

Like I don't know what to do with you.

I am a fuckin VT

We don’t “mass claim” to save me

If you believe I am town you argue it

We don’t chop off the right arm to save a toenail.

I don’t think you’re town because almost everything from the word go has been terrible to me

I'd do almost anything to break a game my way but if you'd rather fall on the sword and get out of the way so I can do it tomorrow, be my guest.

[implosion]

My main thought today was that Implosion fits pretty well as a HEM partner, and honestly possibly with Math as well, but I haven't looked into that closely yet. But there are some key aspects of how implosion played D1 that are how I think a HEM buddy would have played it. For e.g. the initial hesitant bussing, feeling forced to double down after being called out, backing off slightly when other options may have been possible. I also was reconsidering the way that implosion interacted with me and my scumread there. I'm used to scum just shading me when I suspect them, but I think implosion's... almost-buddying in a way? also makes sense. Especially the part where implosion was using the same reasoning as me for certain reads.

It's probably roughly how I'd have reacted as scum too, because as scum I generally just try to mimic whatever reasoning I'd give as town for stuff like that.

[MathBlade]

*eyeroll* Math, I try to save you if you're town and you literally object because it's me proposing it.

Like I don't know what to do with you.

I am a fuckin VT

We don’t “mass claim” to save me

If you believe I am town you argue it

We don’t chop off the right arm to save a toenail.

I don’t think you’re town because almost everything from the word go has been terrible to me

I'd do almost anything to break a game my way but if you'd rather fall on the sword and get out of the way so I can do it tomorrow, be my guest.

Your way looks like TPR mass claim when we have the PR advantage as scum couldn’t kill.

My flip pretty much proves Enchant town which means a likely win unless there is a doc claim out there.

So far as I am concerned I wish Enchant would play but unkillable conf town barring CC seems pretty good to me

Way more than any setup spec can provide

[MathBlade]

Your way seems like a bunch of bullshit and I tried being supportive but it just looks bad.

[Roden]

I'm a little late and just caught up but I also disagree with the mass claim

HEM claiming VT makes me think either the Informed option did nothing because all pairs got taken, or the only available PR pair was somehow a priority pair and the entire scum team rolled too low in the draft to feasibly get it. HEM actually being a Goon despite having a decent spot on the draft heavily implies he was desperate to get a good PR, which means the scum team generally didn't place well in the draft. So it's possible they are all Goons, or 1 PR + 2 Goons.

If I'm right about that, outting the PRs just gives scum an advantage since it'll be mostly/all townies anyway. They'll just be better informed on where to shoot and avoid VTs entirely.

[implosion]

I'm losing a lot of will in this game especially with Titus not even acknowledging my reach out.

[implosion]

I don't know if I want to lim Enchant anymore, because if Enchant is scum then the only known explanation for the no kill is Math scum, or a doc save. Which is part of why I want a massclaim. But in the absence of a massclaim this makes me feel like limming Math before Enchant is typically the correct play. Ari is right that a universal backup could inherit ascetic cop if Enchant is ascetic cop, but I think Enchant could just as easily be a scum bp (since e.g. a scum ascetic cop could get outed when someone targets them and gets a result) and a universal backup becoming bp wouldn't be useful when there are several power roles already out right now. Another use of a potential town universal backup is to just lim Math, and make scum essentially "waste" a shot on Ausuka that doesn't actually get rid of the jailkeeper.

[Roden]

Also I can confirm Enchant as BP tonight with my Voyeur if necessary. Or well "confirm" since if it fails I'll know he's Ascetic. If my check works then we know he isn't Ascetic and most likely town. If he's scum, picking Ascetic is a better choice than BP mechanically, so I think scum fake claiming BP while actually being Ascetic is possible. But I don't think scum ever actually picks BP.

[MathBlade]

Mainly I think if we can confirm me town (by elimming me)

I think that gives us the best chance to win.

Then Enchant was shot (which matches where Ari thinks the kill should have gone) or a doc saved someone or scum no kill

Very narrow worlds.

[MathBlade]

The alternative is just accept I am town and scum probably shot Enchant.

If you townread me and TR Enchant the rest literally doesn’t matter as then scum likely can’t win

If you can’t do that you should elim me so you have a hard TR on Enchant pending a doc claim and flip.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think a low-impact player like Enchant could take BP as scum to avoid vigs

@Enchant

when was the latest you intended to claim?

[Roden]

Technically, Math, it's possible you targeted Enchant and got double blocked by BP

and

JK.