Mini 2273: Science Diagrams That Look Like Shitposts 2 [END]

[Vivax]

Geraintm probably thought I would just spend the entire day tunneling Corwin again, then saw the unvote, picked up his jaw from the floor and lazily pointed out it would make me mafia.

[Vivax]

And since every good coffin needs four nails, here's the final one:

Day 2....i dunno.
they are ignoring Corwin's claim which is weird.

What claim?
Did geraintm tell him to claim vig today or where does this come from.

[Crescent]

To expand: You can't possibly think I look bad for wanting to launch NM today when he's still alive and you don't know his alignment.

*Raises hand*

The NM vote was legitimately bad because a vote on him that early in the day achieves absolutely nothing. It's the ultimate sinkhole. I've made it no secret I find him insufferable and want him out of this game, but rushing him out is not pro-town.

I'm only on phone at the moment so tabbing all over the place isn't an option but next up I'm taking a peek at Gera's day 2 ISO.

[Vivax]

To expand: You can't possibly think I look bad for wanting to launch NM today when he's still alive and you don't know his alignment.

*Raises hand*

The NM vote was legitimately bad because a vote on him that early in the day achieves absolutely nothing. It's the ultimate sinkhole. I've made it no secret I find him insufferable and want him out of this game, but rushing him out is not pro-town.

I'm only on phone at the moment so tabbing all over the place isn't an option but next up I'm taking a peek at Gera's day 2 ISO.

Not that NM matters now as for what I believe, I found the other mafia. You're kind of on an old page.

The argument is very bad as it puts something that happens in a possible future (NM dies and flips town) as a fact in the present (NM would die as town and that makes you look bad now).

[Crescent]

The "gut feeling" I had right away was this isn't T/T. Time for some research~

Gera does have more of a consistent (albeit disjointed) pattern towards Vivax than I remembered -- Though most of this was only after Vivax had 3 votes. There are also some things I want to work out here.

Post #980 though, is before Eiralox and NM vote for him. It calls Vivax "reachy" for one of his joke sus posts on Alex, and says he plans to look into Vivax and Corwin.

In #1000 he talks about ignoring Corwin claiming. Corwin capped at -3 and was never claimed. It may be an awkward reference to that, but I don't "get" the mention here.

In #1021 he says he also thinks Corwin is town when responding to me, but he never gave his own reasons for this change in stance, nor does he seem to notice in #1088 that Vivax never actually voted Corwin to begin with despite it being pointed out 3 times. It's sloppy work, at best.


I actually think the NM vote, which is apparently what drew Gera's vote onto Vivax, was more "bad" than "scummy" . It was the act of doing nothing but tunneling Corwin and then turning to NM under pressure to do anything but tunnel Corwin that looked scummy. Gera's arguments on both Corwin and Vivax today feel incomplete.


As for your responses.. #1093 is irrelevant. Owen flipped Red, sure, but the scumteam didn't know his alignment. There are no town points to be gotten for having voted him.

In #1098, I don't really like anything in this post. The point about #1091 is weak because Alex did not vote for NM - Only you did. That he would react to you differently at a result is natural. You also shade him for presupposing your alignment based on someone else's. I personally presupposed your alignment based on someone else's alignment yesterday.

#1100 makes no sense, as you weren't tunneling Corwin for nearly the "entire day" yesterday. It reminds me of #1018... It's just an inaccurate representation of how the game has played out.


Speaking of Clidd... As the only person in the entire game who actually researched Clidd's argument, I did confirm he was acting closer to the scum game in question than the town games in question. The way Clidd argued it was so retroactive that I think people were just lazy and ignored it.

I'm not enthused by either side of this right now.

[gibus]

VOTE: geraintm
Will catch up in a bit

[Vivax]

I was kind of drawing up a massive for almost an hour post when I started out wanting to make a simple flowchart in response to crescent.
But the end result is that crescent is likely mafia.

[Vivax]

I think I might be getting closer to the Eureka moment while writing this post. Or it's just another one of my insane ramblings. Would mean that either geraint or Corwin is town however? Or maybe there's 3 mafias + the traitor, dunno.
Crescent, I see little reason to do what you did and just antagonize the points on geraint without seeing his reply. Or rather, I see the reason, but I think that's because you're a restless poster and want to test me. I don't believe you when you say that you don't think I'm town.
Starting back from the basics, if I were to make up a flowchart off the bat it would look like this:

Do you think that whoever wrote something is lying to you, or not? y/n
If not, it doesn't mean anything, as mafia have perfect information and their alternative to lying is telling the truth. If I open Crescents ISO and try to find an example, I find this.

One thing I will add is the guy who voted me is probably town. I tend to be a magnet for unexplained early votes from people who haven't played with me before, and they're almost always town. It's why I got sus of Gamma last game for openly townreading me for no given reason in the first 60.

Take that post and compare it to the post right afterwards.

Crescent and Gibus are scum together, got it

Alex post doesn't have the aspiration to be right off the bat. It's just a guess, and Alex doesn't explain it cause he knows that the guess is genuine.
Meanwhile Crescents post starts with truth off a simple random vote by gibus. To fend off suspicion sometimes you think that offering a piece of the puzzle will satisfy the town.
But since mafia needs to hide that they had the solution on their hand, they need to conceal that fact, so they feel compelled to justify it. Which is why crescent added the two sentences, as she wanted to avoid someone asking her about it and anticipated the answer.

I believe that as town crescent would have written like this:

One thing I will add is the guy who voted me is probably town.

Flowchart cont:

If you think that it's a lie, is the lie worded in a way that conceals that it's a lie?
If not, assume town.
if other/town, does the lie lead to a productive result?
no -> possible mafia, or you are playing against a group of friends who try to bring you onto the wrong track (It's not hard to construct a troll game, but don't assume I'm implying it for this one, it can happen generally).
yes -> See the result.

If yes, assume mafia. To conceal the lie, that's where the mafia writes a fake story.

Crescent cont:

Owen then caught it (presumably):

P.S.

I think the difference is some town get bad-vibes from it and decide to pressure me to get a better read, but it doesn't really ping anything from scum as something worth pursuing, which is why that vote usually comes from town.

What makes you think that gibus wasn't just random voting?

'Cause an entire day had passed and his "sticking with the basics" line suggests having an actual reason to vote that wasn't strong enough to actually go into detail on.

The answer immediately assumed the vote from gibus came from town. Because it was true and Crescent already maneuvered herself into that corner in the previous post.

Pretend you're crescent here and you don't know if gibus had a strong or weak reason. The obvious answer if you weren't hiding information is 'I don't know if gibus was random voting'.
But because you handed out a townread and don't want to rescind it for fear of looking bad, the only way you can avoid that is to make it look like you thought it was a weak reason.
So you add that assumption into the answer and deliver it in the most innocent way possible.

Need a break now lol.
UNVOTE: Geraintm
VOTE: Crescent

[Crescent]

I was kind of drawing up a massive for almost an hour post when I started out wanting to make a simple flowchart in response to crescent.
But the end result is that crescent is likely mafia.

Uh.

So where is said flow chat? The scumteam of Corwin/Gera/Me you're now proposing makes very little sense in a vacuum, partially based on my behavior and partially based on Owen's. You have a lot of work to show and only the promise of "just trust me bro" to show for it.

Oh my first Pedit of the game: There we go, some actual reasoning~

[Crescent]

That post was remarkably weak for a change of vote. Disappointing. I do enjoy a good dance sometimes, but it's just rehashing posts from the first 50 posts of the game and making points that were already made long ago.

My town vibe on Gibus thinking it was serious directly parallels my suspicion of Gamma for randomly townreading me very early in day 1 without giving a reason in the very last game. This is all already asked and answered stuff.

[Corwinoid]

Please, for the love of god play this game and not the last one. I literally don't care what happened in every other game you've played, and I can't be fucked to go read through every one that you reference to care.

[Crescent]

Now let's review some places where it failed:

A. Rehashing posts that other players scrutinized long ago that I also responded to long ago is not making an actual case. Quoting the same post multiple times in different spots makes it feel worse. I spent the next 100-200 posts getting occasional flak for the very posts you quoted.

B. It didn't explain how a scum combination of Corwin/Owen/Myself makes

any sense whatsoever

. It ignores Owen's existence (as you have done all day except the one moment you tried to use his red flip to say you looked good), and that I'm the only person in the entire game that took Clidd's argument against Gera seriously. Elsa only said Corwin and I would be scum together based on thinking I had voted you when I never did. Both myself and Alex have pointed out how nonsensical Corwin/Myself being scum together would be.

I and Owen would both have to be spending this game bussing like crazy, but here's the rub.

Scum is not going to leave a high volume poster like me alive if I'm mowing down scum. To play this game the way I have if I'm scum with Corwin and Gera is

suicide

. It's actively throwing the game so badly that it's arguably not even playing to win.

[Crescent]

Please, for the love of god play this game and not the last one. I literally don't care what happened in every other game you've played, and I can't be fucked to go read through every one that you reference to care.

This is directly relevant to the situation at hand. Just because you're an embarrassment to the game of mafia doesn't make it an invalid point. It IS playing this game to reference that one because the situations are directly comparable.

It also doesn't make Clidd's argument against Gera invalid, when most of his argument was based loosely on past games.

[Vivax]

You don't need to find more than one mistake to realize someone is a liar who pretends to tell the truth while telling the truth.

I think I have three questions Crescent can't possibly answer:

Why did geraintm say that Corwin claimed and I ignored it?

If you don't know, why aren't you interested in it?

If you are interested in it, why didn't you ask about it and pretended not to notice #1101?

[Crescent]

You don't need to find more than one mistake to realize someone is a liar who pretends to tell the truth while telling the truth.

I think I have three questions Crescent can't possibly answer:

Why did geraintm say that Corwin claimed and I ignored it?

If you don't know, why aren't you interested in it?

If you are interested in it, why didn't you ask about it and pretended not to notice #1101?

I only noticed it when you brought it up in #1098. I even said I have no idea where it's coming from.

Because I find it more awkward than scummy. It had already been brought up by you, and all there was to dowas to wait for the response. The way you jumped immediately to "Gera told Corwin to fakeclaim vig" in #1101 is actually

significantly scummier

than Gera thinking Corwin had claimed when he didn't.

"I only noticed it when you brought it up in #1098."


It's no secret I haven't been sharp this game. I missed a few things day 1 that I should've caught immediately, such as Elsa putting the host in her readslist.

Your arguments are again bad, but I also feel like scum probably doesn't kamikaze into me like this.

I would like to note though that he's apparently calling me scum in this post based on calling Gera scum, which is the same kind of WIFOM he just shaded Gera for.

[Not_Mafia]

Crescent please get an avatar

Here's one you can use

[Corwinoid]

The situations are only comparable in your hyper-self-aware attention whoring self important flood posting world where you think you are a goddamn paragon of Mafia brilliance and everyone who doesn't grovel at your feet for the crumbs of your reads and play THE WAY YOU WANT THEM TO is "bad at the game".

Seriously, fuck off.

VOTE: Crescent
Policy vote for fucking off unfun players. Go away.

[Crescent]

I'm torn because Vivax's last 3 votes come off like flailing scum, but it's hard to see that actually coming after me of all people, especially with an argument so weak I can hit it down with a flyswatter. The other issue is I don't trust the 4th vote on him, but it's specifically that 4th vote that's made him turn super flaily in the past half day or so.

The votes on Vivax are Corwin (probably town), Eira (probably town but inactive today), NM (please vig), and Gera (Who I don't trust at all).

Meanwhile Elsa is kinda wasting her vote on Corwin for... I'm not sure what reason anymore. Some of her arguments seemed to be based around me voting Vivax which never happened, yet I don't feel like pointing out that never happened actually changed anything. I would like an update from her.

[Crescent]

The situations are only comparable in your hyper-self-aware attention whoring self important flood posting world where you think you are a goddamn paragon of Mafia brilliance and everyone who doesn't grovel at your feet for the crumbs of your reads and play THE WAY YOU WANT THEM TO is "bad at the game".

Seriously, fuck off.

VOTE: Crescent
Policy vote for fucking off unfun players. Go away.

Says the person who tolerates NM.

zzzzz.

[Not_Mafia]

The situations are only comparable in your hyper-self-aware attention whoring self important flood posting world where you think you are a goddamn paragon of Mafia brilliance and everyone who doesn't grovel at your feet for the crumbs of your reads and play THE WAY YOU WANT THEM TO is "bad at the game".

Seriously, fuck off.

VOTE: Crescent
Policy vote for fucking off unfun players. Go away.

Says the person who tolerates NM.

zzzzz.

Maybe you need to learn how to be a better team player. This isn't a word count contest

[Crescent]

The situations are directly, absolutely comparable. It is DIRECTLY RELEVANT to this game to bring it up. I don't actually understand how someone could be so dense to not see that arguments like this are legitimately important. I have exactly one way of defending myself for the early Gibus townread. Why am I not supposed to talk about it?

[Vivax]

Not_mafia, the first in-game mafia coach.

[Crescent]

The situations are only comparable in your hyper-self-aware attention whoring self important flood posting world where you think you are a goddamn paragon of Mafia brilliance and everyone who doesn't grovel at your feet for the crumbs of your reads and play THE WAY YOU WANT THEM TO is "bad at the game".

Seriously, fuck off.

VOTE: Crescent
Policy vote for fucking off unfun players. Go away.

Says the person who tolerates NM.

zzzzz.

Maybe you need to learn how to be a better team player. This isn't a word count contest

If we had less players like you and more players that were actually active, my post count would be

much

lower. When barely anyone in the game is trying, I do one of two things:

I get ridiculously active to try to fill in the gap, or I just outright quit the game once I feel the town is no longer worth trying to save.

I'm not this active because I

want

to be. I'm this active because I feel like I

need

to be.

[Not_Mafia]

Maybe other people would be more active if you weren't so overactive

[Corwinoid]

Perhaps no one is trying because you're clogging the shitter.

Go outside, take in the sunlight and a deep breath of fresh air. It's a game, it's not that important, and you are not Jesus Crescent Lord and Savior of Mafia Game Mini 2273.