Open 854 | Eurybia's Curse | Game Over!

[skitter30]

Fair enuf indeed, apologies

[Faker]

I didn't think it was fair at all. What a diplomatic tiger we have today.

[Coral]

I think that context is exactly the point, I'm not sure what you mean.

The point isn't that you're protecting Pav by tearing down GL's read on him. You're protecting Pav by attacking GL and discrediting his reads and progressions in general, while making the focus about someone else, marci.

GL had 3 suspicions he was looking at in that series of posts, Gamma, Pav, and marci. You pushed back on him for voting marci out of those 3, and for not continuing his prior suspicion on Pav. Yes, on a surface level you're implying that it would be correct for him to be on Pav instead, but nowhere there do you say that you actually want that, you're just saying that his progression is questionable. You're not pushing Pav yourself, you're just shading GL for not voting there.

And in fact, you're the one who was saying that the Beat wagon was scummy and that you wanted to focus on the people you scumread voting there, so it's inconsistent for you to jump on GL for focusing on the wagon. Pav wasn't on the wagon. It doesn't fit with your earlier direction for you to be suddenly so suspicious of GL for pushing on the wagon instead of Pav.

[Faker]

Anyway I'm feeling pretty decent today so should be able to tackle stuff. I tend to wither quickly in tonal banter garbage but I'll try it. Worst case scenario I just start from the beginning of Day 2.

[skitter30]

More that i was reflecting yesterday that i should take into account the slaughter hour stuff

Pedit sure, but i dont think pushing gl for voting marci is protecting pav at all - if anything i should be *encouraging* the marci push since it would be a good distraction from pav (unless you want to argue i'm partners with marci, which i dont think either of u are up to)

Idk why attacking gl there really helps scum-me

[Faker]

While that's a separate object weighing in my favor, your principal point was that my bipartite interest of trolling and reaction testing seemed implausible.

Have you seen me do anything that enforces this is plausible town-Faker behavior?

[skitter30]

Like it's somehat confusing to me how the conclusion here is: this is indicative of partners with pav

I'm also baffled why if i'm scum with pav i:

Insist there's scum in pav/marci/gamma/tuf
Resist the marci wagon for a while
Eventually join the pav one (as one od the first votes)
And then just sit there till hammer without trying to get any other wagons?

So i'm purposefully trying to bus him
Why again?

Pedit i dont think that was my argument at all?

[Faker]

i didn't like faker's entrance but when i thought abt it some more i changed my mind / am unsure if it's scum-indicative for her

wrt faker: 2950 (that seems like a weird thought for someone town to have)
dislike that she started pushing marci out of the gate (which is probably one of the easier flips to get ...), esp. since her initial read on her was 'town with not a lot of confidence' (2692) , and has her as 'kinda town' in 2891
and then after i voted her 2695 and 2696 were pre-emptively defensive / trying to demonstrate how she's not a pav partner when nobody had really brought that up

There is more to this with the marcistar read but this was my reference.

wrt faker: 2950 (that seems like a weird thought for someone town to have)

You have literally seen me do something nearly identical as town. What the fuck are you talking about?

[Faker]

Either way I'm just being cheeky and there's no need to linger on this again.

[Coral]

Pedit sure, but i dont think pushing gl for voting marci is protecting pav at all - if anything i should be *encouraging* the marci push since it would be a good distraction from pav (unless you want to argue i'm partners with marci, which i dont think either of u are up to)

Idk why attacking gl there really helps scum-me

It weakens his position and discourages him from pushing the people he scumreads due to the threat of your response. And I think indirectly you do actually encourage his marci push.

You ask him to clarify why he wants a Pav flip, and when he does, you keep pushing back against it, saying his progression doesn't make sense, putting him on the back foot and making him defend himself and focus his posts on his own actions rather than why he thinks Pav is scum (1953 -> 1976 -> 1978)

But when you ask him to clarify why he's pushing marci, he goes in depth explaining his reasoning and you say thanks for spelling it all out (1952 -> 1981 -> 2063)

2063 is big there, I think. You encourage him to case marci, and leave the engagement satisfied once he's done so.

[skitter30]

Ok @faker if that was in jest i'll drop it

@coral ok fair enuf, i see ur point - but i think if i'm scum there, i probably look for other options instead of pav, and try to push those, instead of attacking someone who threw out an incidental sr on a partner but is pushing someone else entirely

Also i dropped it when i understood his progression on marci, i didnt need much else from the engagement

[Meuh]

- i lowkey feel like you decided i was scum, and then went through my iso to find things to support that conclusion

I think that's fair, like I came into this already scumreading you.
Plus originally, my post was just going to be reiterating the point about the lack of interaction, because it particularly stuck out to me considering I find your recent play scummy and I felt as though I should give a more thorough look at your interactions with Pav.
But then I checked out some of the other posts you made about Pav, and then more... and then like an hour later I had read all of your mentions of Pav (prior to day 3). So because I was just trying to prove my point at first, the first bit of the post was more about that than about anything else.

- i find it kinda interesting that you're at one relatively late stage in the preceedings describing me as staying on pav 'due to feeling its inevitable at that point': i was on him for several irl days at that point, ajd had ample opportunity to leave it before that point if i chose, but didn't

To me those posts read like you fully committing to it. I know your vote had already been there for a while. The whole mention of the group of superficially scummy players however felt like you were making it explicit. I like that commitment because I expect scum to avoid it.

- as i explained several times: i found the tuf/marci/gamma/pav(+beat) groupijg to be difficult. I thought there was at least one scum there, but probably just one, and had little confidence that we were going to pick the right one (aside: really easy for my to hop off of pav onto marci, tuf, etc with this stance as his partner), and wanted for something better than just flipping through thr group. At some point or another, i saw something townie from the others, but never from pav, so at the moment i voted him ifelt the worst about him (and felt we were getting stuck on the other alternative wagons), and i never saw a reason to leave

Okay, this is fair.

- i had nothing to say to pav for most of the game: he had little content, and people prodding him didnt create more. Unsure what i was meant to add

I don't expect you to engage with him extensively but it's striking to me how long there was just absolutely nothing.
Also, I recall you engaging with Marci to try to get reads out of her when she was being actively uncooperative. So why not do the same for Pav? I understand that like there's a difference in activity but still.
Fmpov you have 2 players who are not producing much in terms of reads and insight into the game, who you both seem to want to figure out better. One of which you chose to engage with (you asked Marci the same question 4 times to make sure she'd answer), and one you just didn't talk to. With the fact you're voting for Pav on top of it all, it makes me a bit uneasy.

- wrt potential partners: faker joined eod2, it was gamma before then. I think its unlikely i wouod have played to escape and leave gamma at the helm when he was so wildly suspected, and i wasnt

Huh, you mean have Gamma escape in case of a mislim on day 2? If so I don't think that happens, Pav just escapes 100% of the time that night, regardless of the scum team imo
Or do you mean regarding escaping on this night? Like setting it up beforehand? If so I guess you might wanna play more passively? Though I feel like you weren't that aggressive on day 2 (tbh calling anyone "aggressive" feels weird but I guess I'm committed to it)
Tbh I also feel like I haven't factored personal playstyle enough into this whole equation.
Scum aren't going to do a 180 on their playstyle because of the escape mechanic

Is this game any different from how Skitter typically plays? This is my first time playing with her. I'd assume it'd been called out if it was. @Anyone

Also maybe you have already and I missed it but could you just explain why you voted for Pav in the first place? It massively confuses me

[Meuh]

Meuh why aren't u voting for skitter if u think she's so scummy?

I am

[Meuh]

The way people position themselves around her gives me the impression she's someone scum want as a lim at some point.

This is surprising to me! I didn't really get that impression, I thought it was mostly Isis who was scumreading her right now. What names were you thinking of here?

Following along with Ari's post, and I'm reminded of this, which I think got lost in the shuffle a bit with the responses to my longer post about skitter. I don't think I ever got a response here. Meuh, do you remember who you were referring to with this? I remember thinking it was kind of an odd thing to say

Meuh, I'd still like an answer to this. Who did you feel was positioning around skitter in this way? Do you still agree with that earlier thought?

I didn't really have anyone in mind specifically. It was kind of an in the moment gamestate read thing so I don't 100% recall everything I had going through my mind at the time.
To me I just recall people not really taking harsh stances on Skitter? Like iirc there wasn't a lot of just "Skitter is town" or "Skitter is scum" and so she was kind of in this state of perpetual neutrality. This to me felt like it could be scum purposely acting in this way. Then, they can avoid talking about her at that point, but have her as a mislim later on, which is a scary prospect.
In retrospect I still agree with the logic behind it (the neutrality and potential setup), but not really the conclusion. Aside from people scum want to mislim later, there's also scum themselves who often find themselves in perpetual neutrality. (I like this term, even if it isn't fully accurate. Feels nice) But yeah as scum can have a hard time generating genuine reads of their partners and because they want flexibility to push their agenda down the line, I could see Skitter also be in that specific position as scum.
It can also sometime just happen with no ill-intent, but yeah I think perpetual neutrality affects 2 groups of people the most. People scum want to potentially lim down the line, or scum themselves. I think Skitter's position in the game, purely through that lens, means she could be either and overall this point doesn't feel that compelling to me at this point.

[Coral]

Thanks!!

That helps a lot, actually. I feel like I can see your thought process there now where I couldn't before

[Isis]

(Aside, it is p surprising to me that coral wasnt cleared)

It was surprising to me too, and I've been thinking about why. Some reasons I've been considering:
1) Scum don't want my reads to be given the weight and influence that comes from being in the townblock (this fits with scum wanting Ari as queen over me)
2) Scum think that I look like a possible partner to whoever they plan to have escape first
3) Scum thought my noncommittal play around Pav would be enough to make people paranoid

The problem is that the first two reasons point to different people as scum, though, I think. Which makes it hard for me to figure out what I should be taking away from it

Titus and TUF have Occam razor townreads. Dior, Gucci, and Tori Burch have to put together a PowerPoint together to explain how your outfit so cute

[Isis]

VOTE: skitter30

[skitter30]

At the start I scumread her -> realizing scum need 2 mislims, it feels less likely to play aggressively -> therefore Skitter!town seems likely -> remembering someone gets to escape -> scum will likely go with an aggressive and a passive player, to secure their wincon -> so, Skitter's play could fit within the ideals of the mafia
I'm still leaning scum on her at the moment, it's more my perspective on the way scum could and would play today that's change

Huh, you mean have Gamma escape in case of a mislim on day 2? If so I don't think that happens, Pav just escapes 100% of the time that night, regardless of the scum team imo
Or do you mean regarding escaping on this night? Like setting it up beforehand? If so I guess you might wanna play more passively? Though I feel like you weren't that aggressive on day 2 (tbh calling anyone "aggressive" feels weird but I guess I'm committed to it)

Ehat does this bit mean on this context? How do you think scum-me is playing the game

If i'm playing aggressively and plan to escape: who am i entrusting the game to tomorrow? Who is my partner?

If i'm playing passively, plz explain the first quote

- also i feel like you're conceding my points when i make them even if they dont fit your narrative, but then ending up with a scumread anyways

[skitter30]

Shoot i lost the first bit while quoting, one sec, there was more @meuh:

- you're descriving my play as being 'striking' and 'making you wary', and similar terms as these. What does that mean, and why is this scum-indicative? Rn these things seem to be shade to desribe discomfort but you're missing the bit where you explain why its scummy

- wrt marci/pav: pav was absent for large portions of the game, in perpetual catchup mode, and wasnt responding to other people asking for content. Not sure what i ahould have added. With marci, she was behaving in a manner cognizant with the one scumgame i've played with her (tarot mafia), and was specifically igniring me, which i felt to be scum-indicative, and her thoughts felt v surface level, so i kept prodding for more

[skitter30]

VOTE: skitter30

Ok i think you're confbiased and idk how to talk u out of it, so i'm just gonna jump to the next part

If i flip town where do you look?

[Isis]

If you flip town I think most of the reasons I get paranoid about faker goes away so that is nice

[skitter30]

Where's scum tho

[Isis]

Idk you tell me skitter you literally know more alignments than I do

[Faker]

If you flip town I think most of the reasons I get paranoid about faker goes away so that is nice

I don't really get this. It implies you're worried about S/S for me/skitter but not S/T. I really don't understand this one; our catfight is borderline gamethrowing. There is no need to do loops in the sun and be shocked if the wings melt instead of just flying straight. There's a lot more reason for skitter to be skeptical of me in T/S or to prod for vulnerability in S/T.

[skitter30]

Idk you tell me skitter you literally know more alignments than I do

.... you're set on misflipping me apparently, can you at least think about the consequences?