LOST (Game Over)

[MalcolmTucker]

I'm looking back and Bella seemed to TR Cat quite strongly without necessarily always committing too much - briefly went null.

[MalcolmTucker]

I actually don't think anything would necessarily rule out CSF/Bella as scum together here. CSF TR'd Bella early on and then confidently voted there, but seems viable they could've been one of the scum bussing Bella given what happened. Good way to potentially create some distance given early townreads for each other.

[Rad]

Best explanation for Bella reading csf hard town is that csf is town. I realize that's convenient for me given Bella's read on me, but the easiest thing for scum to do is to take a town member and openly read them town, cause it's just a correct read. It's much riskier for scum to openly read other scum as town because those scum aren't going to be nearly as townie. I think it makes the most sense that scum read other scum as null or even lean scum, especially early game where this will give distancing and also make their reads look better than if they're reading inherently scummy stuff as townie.

[Off The Hook]

I don't find rad scummy, I think if rad is scum nking luke would not be the move since it would so obviously point towards them.

I think I'm pretty interest in bluebloodedtoffee right now, their wagon just keeps gettjng built up and going nowhere which I think is a sign they have buddies working with them behind the scenes to help push the wagon away.

i havent talked with gamma for a phat while, and i dont plan to i think shes PISSED at me.

I'm also now wary of johnny and he knows why. I think he could be scum here : DD

[MalcolmTucker]

Best explanation for Bella reading csf hard town is that csf is town. I realize that's convenient for me given Bella's read on me, but the easiest thing for scum to do is to take a town member and openly read them town, cause it's just a correct read. It's much riskier for scum to openly read other scum as town because those scum aren't going to be nearly as townie. I think it makes the most sense that scum read other scum as null or even lean scum, especially early game where this will give distancing and also make their reads look better than if they're reading inherently scummy stuff as townie.

In a large game when you have multiple scum they aren't all going to automatically scumread each other either though, there's a balance to be had. If you've got a team of four or five then I think it surely makes sense to at least given one member of your scumteam towncred? If scum didn't do that it'd be easy to identify them by just going through their reads and automatically reducing your POE to anyone they have as null or scum. Ideally if you're scum you want to distribute your reads on your teammates evenly. Scum Bella/CSF townreading each other before an eventual bus from Cat should not be ruled out.

[MalcolmTucker]

I don't find rad scummy,

I think if rad is scum nking luke would not be the move since it would so obviously point towards them.

I think I'm pretty interest in bluebloodedtoffee right now, their wagon just keeps gettjng built up and going nowhere which I think is a sign they have buddies working with them behind the scenes to help push the wagon away.

i havent talked with gamma for a phat while, and i dont plan to i think shes PISSED at me.

I'm also now wary of johnny and he knows why. I think he could be scum here : DD

Would it, though, given the logic here dictates Rad would be unlikely to do it? Luke is a strong town-player and was basically confirmed town. Rad (or anyone who Luke suspected) can surely argue away that scum would want Luke out the game because it's ultimately always going to be beneficial for them.

Why are you wary again re Johnny? I thought we were pretty solid on Johnny being town now post-D2?

[Rad]

Was their town read on Corwin and the 180 on Enchant that caught my interest.

Any particular posts on his Corwin read you can point out?

I was just looking at Malcolm's voting history and thought it was interesting:

Roden
Johnny
Roden
Johnny
Taly
Math (math flip was looking imminent with momentum after butterchurn and csf jump on the wagon and 6 people were on, I jumped on right after him here but I had already claimed I would be jumping on whatever wagon picked up steam)
Bella (after Drap reveal and 7 people were on the wagon, obviously Bella's going to flip and there will be scum on this wagon for sure)
Rad

So a bunch of votes slots that are all likely town, then momentum votes on known scum with no prior votes on them, and now on me (I'm town! and my slot is again a conveniently reasonable vote today for scum )

[MalcolmTucker]

Was their town read on Corwin and the 180 on Enchant that caught my interest.

Any particular posts on his Corwin read you can point out?

I was just looking at Malcolm's voting history and thought it was interesting:

Roden
Johnny
Roden
Johnny
Taly
Math (math flip was looking imminent with momentum after butterchurn and csf jump on the wagon and 6 people were on, I jumped on right after him here but I had already claimed I would be jumping on whatever wagon picked up steam)
Bella (after Drap reveal and 7 people were on the wagon, obviously Bella's going to flip and there will be scum on this wagon for sure)
Rad

So a bunch of votes slots that are all likely town, then momentum votes on known scum with no prior votes on them, and now on me (I'm town! and my slot is again a conveniently reasonable vote today for scum )

I typically vote quite sparingly in most games. My reasoning on Math was consistent - I thought their frustration looked pretty genuine early on but gradually started to get the vibe it was being forced. I don't think my vote was particularly opportunistic or that Math was even guaranteed to be eliminated by the time I voted there? Even though it was the most likely elimination. And I voted for Bella because that was clearly the best vote.

[Rad]

Who besides me do you think is scum Malcolm?

[MalcolmTucker]

Was their town read on Corwin and the 180 on Enchant that caught my interest.

Any particular posts on his Corwin read you can point out?

I was just looking at Malcolm's voting history and thought it was interesting:

Roden
Johnny
Roden
Johnny
Taly
Math (math flip was looking imminent with momentum after butterchurn and csf jump on the wagon and 6 people were on, I jumped on right after him here but I had already claimed I would be jumping on whatever wagon picked up steam)
Bella (after Drap reveal and 7 people were on the wagon, obviously Bella's going to flip and there will be scum on this wagon for sure)
Rad

So a bunch of votes slots that are all likely town, then momentum votes on known scum with no prior votes on them, and now on me (I'm town! and my slot is again a conveniently reasonable vote today for scum )

I typically vote quite sparingly in most games. My reasoning on Math was consistent - I thought their frustration looked pretty genuine early on but gradually started to get the vibe it was being forced. I don't think my vote was particularly opportunistic or that Math was even guaranteed to be eliminated by the time I voted there? Even though it was the most likely elimination. And I voted for Bella because that was clearly the best vote.

Also - you include my Taly vote here and lump it in as likely town, while ignoring the fact that I voted for Taly in a gladiate where we know the other player was town. I'm leaning town on Taly anyway but that can hardly be described as an opportunistic nothing vote on a townie when I could've actively voted for someone we 100%, absolutely know was town instead in retrospect.

[MalcolmTucker]

Who besides me do you think is scum Malcolm?

As I've outlined above, I'm increasingly of the belief CSF could be scum. Didn't think much of them as potential mafia early on but felt they'd been quiet last turn and the links between them/Bella look reasonable as two scum-mates who potentially defended each other a fair bit early on before Cat bussed at the right time.

[Rad]

Was their town read on Corwin and the 180 on Enchant that caught my interest.

Any particular posts on his Corwin read you can point out?

I was just looking at Malcolm's voting history and thought it was interesting:

Roden
Johnny
Roden
Johnny
Taly
Math (math flip was looking imminent with momentum after butterchurn and csf jump on the wagon and 6 people were on, I jumped on right after him here but I had already claimed I would be jumping on whatever wagon picked up steam)
Bella (after Drap reveal and 7 people were on the wagon, obviously Bella's going to flip and there will be scum on this wagon for sure)
Rad

So a bunch of votes slots that are all likely town, then momentum votes on known scum with no prior votes on them, and now on me (I'm town! and my slot is again a conveniently reasonable vote today for scum )

I typically vote quite sparingly in most games. My reasoning on Math was consistent - I thought their frustration looked pretty genuine early on but gradually started to get the vibe it was being forced. I don't think my vote was particularly opportunistic or that Math was even guaranteed to be eliminated by the time I voted there? Even though it was the most likely elimination. And I voted for Bella because that was clearly the best vote.

Also - you include my Taly vote here and lump it in as likely town, while ignoring the fact that I voted for Taly in a gladiate where we know the other player was town. I'm leaning town on Taly anyway but that can hardly be described as an opportunistic nothing vote on a townie when I could've actively voted for someone we 100%, absolutely know was town instead in retrospect.

Fair on the Taly point. I think voting Ceph was the more townie thing to do there though given the emotions at the time and state of the game, but it's fine.

Roden's probably just mason. Most people seem to believe johnny's probably just town. I know I'm town and you just relentlessly call me scum. So from my perspective, you've just voted for town all game except the 2 votes where you landed on scum out of nowhere.

[Taly]

Remind me why I was your preferred elimination to

Ceph

,

Malcolm

.

[Mislim Bait]

Who besides me do you think is scum Malcolm?

As I've outlined above, I'm increasingly of the belief CSF could be scum. Didn't think much of them as potential mafia early on but felt they'd been quiet last turn and the links between them/Bella look reasonable as two scum-mates who potentially defended each other a fair bit early on before Cat bussed at the right time.

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

[MalcolmTucker]

Was their town read on Corwin and the 180 on Enchant that caught my interest.

Any particular posts on his Corwin read you can point out?

I was just looking at Malcolm's voting history and thought it was interesting:

Roden
Johnny
Roden
Johnny
Taly
Math (math flip was looking imminent with momentum after butterchurn and csf jump on the wagon and 6 people were on, I jumped on right after him here but I had already claimed I would be jumping on whatever wagon picked up steam)
Bella (after Drap reveal and 7 people were on the wagon, obviously Bella's going to flip and there will be scum on this wagon for sure)
Rad

So a bunch of votes slots that are all likely town, then momentum votes on known scum with no prior votes on them, and now on me (I'm town! and my slot is again a conveniently reasonable vote today for scum )

I typically vote quite sparingly in most games. My reasoning on Math was consistent - I thought their frustration looked pretty genuine early on but gradually started to get the vibe it was being forced. I don't think my vote was particularly opportunistic or that Math was even guaranteed to be eliminated by the time I voted there? Even though it was the most likely elimination. And I voted for Bella because that was clearly the best vote.

Also - you include my Taly vote here and lump it in as likely town, while ignoring the fact that I voted for Taly in a gladiate where we know the other player was town. I'm leaning town on Taly anyway but that can hardly be described as an opportunistic nothing vote on a townie when I could've actively voted for someone we 100%, absolutely know was town instead in retrospect.

Fair on the Taly point. I think voting Ceph was the more townie thing to do there though given the emotions at the time and state of the game, but it's fine.

Roden's probably just mason. Most people seem to believe johnny's probably just town. I know I'm town and you just relentlessly call me scum. So from my perspective, you've just voted for town all game except the 2 votes where you landed on scum out of nowhere.

Again I still think "out of nowhere" is harsh re my vote on Math. I outlined with reasonable consistency why I'd gradually flipped on Math from frustrated town who'd replaced in to much more likelier being scum. From another POV, you can look at my voting record for the first three days as having voted against the elimination of a confirmed townie on D1, and then for two scum both following days. In that regard I don't think my voting record comes out any worse than yours - we were both wrong on Enchant D4 and while you showed suspicion toward Math on you were not necessarily consistent on that slot and as Luke pointed out, others did more to drive the eventual elimination.

[MalcolmTucker]

Who besides me do you think is scum Malcolm?

As I've outlined above, I'm increasingly of the belief CSF could be scum. Didn't think much of them as potential mafia early on but felt they'd been quiet last turn and the links between them/Bella look reasonable as two scum-mates who potentially defended each other a fair bit early on before Cat bussed at the right time.

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

Why is this scummy?

[MalcolmTucker]

Remind me why I was your preferred elimination to

Ceph

,

Malcolm

.

I deliberated a bit over it because I didn't scumread you, but ultimately I fundamentally didn't really buy that Ceph opted for the gladiate as scum, just seemed too risky a move for D1, especially against a player who wasn't exactly consensus for elimination.

[Mislim Bait]

Who besides me do you think is scum Malcolm?

As I've outlined above, I'm increasingly of the belief CSF could be scum. Didn't think much of them as potential mafia early on but felt they'd been quiet last turn and the links between them/Bella look reasonable as two scum-mates who potentially defended each other a fair bit early on before Cat bussed at the right time.

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

Why is this scummy?

you townread csf earlier but you changed your read because they're quiet and they somehow bussed when they chose to vote someone who got tracked to a night kill?

[MalcolmTucker]

Who besides me do you think is scum Malcolm?

As I've outlined above, I'm increasingly of the belief CSF could be scum. Didn't think much of them as potential mafia early on but felt they'd been quiet last turn and the links between them/Bella look reasonable as two scum-mates who potentially defended each other a fair bit early on before Cat bussed at the right time.

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

Why is this scummy?

you townread csf earlier but you changed your read because they're quiet and they somehow bussed when they chose to vote someone who got tracked to a night kill?

I said I was wanting to look there, I then took a quick skim through their ISO in relation to interactions with Bella and vice versa and think they could potentially be scum. What's wrong with that?

[Mislim Bait]

Who besides me do you think is scum Malcolm?

As I've outlined above, I'm increasingly of the belief CSF could be scum. Didn't think much of them as potential mafia early on but felt they'd been quiet last turn and the links between them/Bella look reasonable as two scum-mates who potentially defended each other a fair bit early on before Cat bussed at the right time.

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

Why is this scummy?

you townread csf earlier but you changed your read because they're quiet and they somehow bussed when they chose to vote someone who got tracked to a night kill?

I said I was wanting to look there, I then took a quick skim through their ISO in relation to interactions with Bella and vice versa and think they could potentially be scum. What's wrong with that?

Whats with the bella interactions that could make csf scum aside from voting there when pd claimed the track?

[MalcolmTucker]

Who besides me do you think is scum Malcolm?

As I've outlined above, I'm increasingly of the belief CSF could be scum. Didn't think much of them as potential mafia early on but felt they'd been quiet last turn and the links between them/Bella look reasonable as two scum-mates who potentially defended each other a fair bit early on before Cat bussed at the right time.

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

Why is this scummy?

you townread csf earlier but you changed your read because they're quiet and they somehow bussed when they chose to vote someone who got tracked to a night kill?

I said I was wanting to look there, I then took a quick skim through their ISO in relation to interactions with Bella and vice versa and think they could potentially be scum. What's wrong with that?

Whats with the bella interactions that could make csf scum aside from voting there when pd claimed the track?

Very friendly early on, townreading each other with the occasional null from Bella thrown in. Nothing there to rule out potential buddies which is why I'm interested in the slot.

[Mislim Bait]

Who besides me do you think is scum Malcolm?

As I've outlined above, I'm increasingly of the belief CSF could be scum. Didn't think much of them as potential mafia early on but felt they'd been quiet last turn and the links between them/Bella look reasonable as two scum-mates who potentially defended each other a fair bit early on before Cat bussed at the right time.

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

Why is this scummy?

you townread csf earlier but you changed your read because they're quiet and they somehow bussed when they chose to vote someone who got tracked to a night kill?

I said I was wanting to look there, I then took a quick skim through their ISO in relation to interactions with Bella and vice versa and think they could potentially be scum. What's wrong with that?

Whats with the bella interactions that could make csf scum aside from voting there when pd claimed the track?

Very friendly early on, townreading each other with the occasional null from Bella thrown in. Nothing there to rule out potential buddies which is why I'm interested in the slot.

If there's nothing there to rule out potential buddies then it should be nai but instead you called it scum?

when did bella throw a null on csf anyway I only remember he said it once before she made a read on csf

[Mislim Bait]

rad asked who else you think is scum and you only mentioned csf
so is this your 2nd best scumread? it took you like what a few seconds and a quick skim for bella interactions

[Off The Hook]

Would it, though, given the logic here dictates Rad would be unlikely to do it? Luke is a strong town-player and was basically confirmed town. Rad (or anyone who Luke suspected) can surely argue away that scum would want Luke out the game because it's ultimately always going to be beneficial for them.

Why are you wary again re Johnny? I thought we were pretty solid on Johnny being town now post-D2?

from what im gathering, i think rad is slightly still in the noob stage so i think they would be more worried about appearances and not think through 100% what they could do to fix it.

im wary of johnny because of a mini normal that just finished where he was scum imo it seems pretty similar to his play here

[Off The Hook]

has malcom ever gave a tier list