She shades him a fair bit but never really pushes him and always finds someone else to vote.
In post 9866, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Based on play alone, I don't think Bella is scum. As such, I'm willing to believe the claim and also think scum have a strongman.
In post 9913, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Although actually, now that I think about it, scum using a strongman on Bell when there are so many potential options for a Doc to save doesn't really make sense.
the way off of you are using that chart for that purpose.
I agree this is oddly defensive for a post that mentioned BB among several names. It wasn't even a particularly deliberate or strong push on BB specifically from Roden?
You will see that what you have quoted is not what we were discussing but for the sake of clarity, I shall address it.
I looked at other wagons once Math was being replaced. It seemed pointless to leave my vote on Math and not do much else while waiting.
I hope this clears things up for you.
Thanks for stopping by. Again.
It actually doesn't. You'll see from the string of posts you stated that math "can be" scum but then said it didn't make sense for both math and c&g to be scum...then you pushed the c&g wagon as scum pretty hard which doesn't come across as "looked at other wagon [because] it seems pointless to leave my vote on Math."
the way off of you are using that chart for that purpose.
I agree this is oddly defensive for a post that mentioned BB among several names. It wasn't even a particularly deliberate or strong push on BB specifically from Roden?
almost as if it's because i think the actual use of the chart for that purpose is bad for the town and not just for me...almost.
PEdit - Malcolm, you're allowed to reverse your town read on me (I am voting you after all!). You didn't answer me when I asked why you were so sure I was town and that post looks like the start of you reversing the read.
Nah I still lean town on you - tonally throughout the game I think you've been posting in a way that's town-indicative, in a good way I don't feel like you're trying to pocket anyone or that you're cosying up to other players in particular with the hope of gaining townreads or being more well-liked by other players. This turn, for example, if scum I feel like you could sit back and let the game take its natural course, because you weren't particularly in danger of getting eliminated, but you're pushing where you genuinely believe you see scum and not just necessarily settling for what could be deemed an easy vote on me with no work being put in beyond that.
How is BBT town? He said he wants push me for a) doing pretty much the same thing as me wrt Bella, b) trying - LIKE BELLA to push DNA > Math but most scummy of all -
showing 0 interests in other flips to re-evaluate
. Also d) ignores DNA’s paraphrase that Math tried to run me up.
You would expect town!BBT to express some interest in re-evaluating on other flips but he’s already chomping at the bit to get me miselimed.
PEdit - Malcolm, you're allowed to reverse your town read on me (I am voting you after all!). You didn't answer me when I asked why you were so sure I was town and that post looks like the start of you reversing the read.
Nah I still lean town on you - tonally throughout the game I think you've been posting in a way that's town-indicative, in a good way I don't feel like you're trying to pocket anyone or that you're cosying up to other players in particular with the hope of gaining townreads or being more well-liked by other players. This turn, for example, if scum I feel like you could sit back and let the game take its natural course, because you weren't particularly in danger of getting eliminated, but you're pushing where you genuinely believe you see scum and not just necessarily settling for what could be deemed an easy vote on me with no work being put in beyond that.
To add to this - you are obviously voting for me, but what I mean is you're not just sitting on that vote and putting in zero work beyond that. I'm struggling to see Butterflies as scum but if you're wrong I think you're genuine town making a push where you think you see mafia.
In post 11605, butterflies wrote:How is BBT town? He said he wants push me for a) doing pretty much the same thing as me wrt Bella, b) trying - LIKE BELLA to push DNA > Math but most scummy of all -
showing 0 interests in other flips to re-evaluate
. Also d) ignores DNA’s paraphrase that Math tried to run me up.
You would expect town!BBT to express some interest in re-evaluating on other flips but he’s already chomping at the bit to get me miselimed.
If BBT is scum here I'm not sure why they're pushing you at the moment given you're unlikely to be eliminated and the push itself doesn't seem to be helping their standing with the rest of the town. I don't think the logic is great but it's completely viable for contradictory logic to come from tunnelled town sometimes.
the way off of you are using that chart for that purpose.
I agree this is oddly defensive for a post that mentioned BB among several names. It wasn't even a particularly deliberate or strong push on BB specifically from Roden?
almost as if it's because i think the actual use of the chart for that purpose is bad for the town and not just for me...almost.
Why is it bad to look at who potentially gains from eliminating players who have been eliminated? Again, it was not a focused or strong push from Roden, just looking at potentially useful info going forward from a player whose intentions we know are townie.
In post 11605, butterflies wrote:How is BBT town? He said he wants push me for a) doing pretty much the same thing as me wrt Bella, b) trying - LIKE BELLA to push DNA > Math but most scummy of all -
showing 0 interests in other flips to re-evaluate
. Also d) ignores DNA’s paraphrase that Math tried to run me up.
You would expect town!BBT to express some interest in re-evaluating on other flips but he’s already chomping at the bit to get me miselimed.
If BBT is scum here I'm not sure why they're pushing you at the moment given you're unlikely to be eliminated and the push itself doesn't seem to be helping their standing with the rest of the town. I don't think the logic is great but it's completely viable for contradictory logic to come from tunnelled town sometimes.
Based off the reasoning coming from a slot that never hardpushed Math and mindmelded with me on Bella, I don’t understand how anyone has this read?
Why can’t BBT just be scum doing this? He’s setting me up BEFORE he even sees other flips.
In post 11605, butterflies wrote:You would expect town!BBT to express some interest in re-evaluating on other flips but he’s already chomping at the bit to get me miselimed.
I think this is a bit early. Who knows how BBT handles future flips?
What BBT is saying is he has a scum read on you and he knows no one else is interested because most of us have a strong meta town read on you. And I think that's accurate. As the game goes on meta becomes outweighed by actions and if he still has a scum read on you later, you'll be easier to push. I think it's a reasonable thing to mention as town!BBT. I don't see why scum!BBT wouldn't have just kept it to himself and pushed you later.
In post 11605, butterflies wrote:You would expect town!BBT to express some interest in re-evaluating on other flips but he’s already chomping at the bit to get me miselimed.
I think this is a bit early. Who knows how BBT handles future flips?
What BBT is saying is he has a scum read on you and he knows no one else is interested because most of us have a strong meta town read on you. And I think that's accurate. As the game goes on meta becomes outweighed by actions and if he still has a scum read on you later, you'll be easier to push. I think it's a reasonable thing to mention as town!BBT. I don't see why scum!BBT wouldn't have just kept it to himself and pushed you later.
Are we not reading the same posts? Point me to where he has given even the slightest indication of re-evaluating my slot?
In post 11605, butterflies wrote:You would expect town!BBT to express some interest in re-evaluating on other flips but he’s already chomping at the bit to get me miselimed.
I think this is a bit early. Who knows how BBT handles future flips?
What BBT is saying is he has a scum read on you and he knows no one else is interested because most of us have a strong meta town read on you. And I think that's accurate. As the game goes on meta becomes outweighed by actions and if he still has a scum read on you later, you'll be easier to push. I think it's a reasonable thing to mention as town!BBT. I don't see why scum!BBT wouldn't have just kept it to himself and pushed you later.
Are we not reading the same posts? Point me to where he has given even the slightest indication of re-evaluating my slot?
You're assuming he won't. I don't think that's a great assumption and I think this is a TvT that should just stop. If BBT comes at you later in the game with some shit case that doesn't properly reflect new information then you should absolutely point out that fact then.
I think he just has a strong scum read on you and doubts you'll do anything to change his mind.
If you do something in the future that should have clearly changed his mind, and he doesn't change it and pushes you anyway, then you can point it out then.
If you think he's scum NOW, alright, that's your call. I do not.
The re-evaluate point is also just kinda weird here. I think both scum and town HAVE to re-evaluate throughout the game and tbh, scum is probably more likely to re-evaluate more often so they're pushing the best mislim at any point, which changes over time. The idea that scum!BBT is just going to openly not re-evaluate you for the rest of the game would just get him flipped eventually. If that's scum!BBT's plan here, to just lazily wait to push you until later with no re-evaluation whatsoever, great, we'll see it happen later in the game.
In post 11611, Best Bird wrote:Because the info is extremely outdated and was made without any concrete gamestate knowledge.
You don't think there's any chance reads earlier in the game could potentially influence how scum chooses their kills at night?
I think D1 reads are wishywashy for most players and may have influeced the N1 kill but would be unlikely to impact future nightkills unless those reads persisted into further day phases.
In post 11621, Best Bird wrote:I think D1 reads are wishywashy for most players and may have influence on the N1 kill but would be unlikely to impact future nightkills unless those reads persisted into further day phases.
In post 11620, Rad wrote:I think he just has a strong scum read on you and doubts you'll do anything to change his mind.
If you do something in the future that should have clearly changed his mind, and he doesn't change it and pushes you anyway, then you can point it out then.
If you think he's scum NOW, alright, that's your call. I do not.
The re-evaluate point is also just kinda weird here. I think both scum and town HAVE to re-evaluate throughout the game and tbh, scum is probably more likely to re-evaluate more often so they're pushing the best mislim at any point, which changes over time. The idea that scum!BBT is just going to openly not re-evaluate you for the rest of the game would just get him flipped eventually. If that's scum!BBT's plan here, to just lazily wait to push you until later with no re-evaluation whatsoever, great, we'll see it happen later in the game.
I don’t see what’s “weird” about it at all? He’s essentially using the same reasoning that also applies to him, that’s why I don’t tr him for it.
He also ignored DNA paraphrase showing Math was trying to get me run up. And the reason I didn’t didn’t sr him for that was both because he didn’t make it that obvious in the main thread and b) because he has wrongly sr me numerous times as town but that obviously will never work for him again.
