LOST (Game Over)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nancy, you really think scum work so openly together?

[Rad]

Nancy with those hot association takes pre-flip. Sick plays Nancy.

And when I flip green what does that mean Nancy?

[butterflies]

DNA is town anyway. I’ve had a hard tr on that slot for quite awhile now and I bet money I get proven right when it flips green.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't know, I flip on them a lot.

There aren't many posts that make me think town and I think a lot of the read comes down to Bella voting them over Math. But Math was almost definitely getting elimmed anyway so if Bella was bussing it was pretty safe?

[MalcolmTucker]

Probably just town. Scum!bb scenario is too convoluted so I'm not going to worry about it.

Talk me through it?

Nothing stands out as significant for either town!BB or scum!BB. BB prob has the ability he claims and he prob picked Ceph n1 and Luke last night. Luke prob wrote up a scum case on me and either scum!BB will take advantage of it or town!BB is convinced by it. Nothing in his play throughout the game screams town or scum for me but little interaction here and there come across as town to me. Nothing specific I can think of, it's just gut reads on his posts throughout the game that lean more towards town than scum. So I'm content just leaning town on him. I wouldn't be incredibly surprised at whatever BB flips tbh.

I don't have any issue with the gut leaning because I get it's sometimes hard to suss out players, but I don't see how this makes BB being scum "convoluted". In fact, if anything it's the exact opposite for me in this scenario...someone who's this long into the game but who doesn't stand out as either alignment can definitely be scum, it signals they're playing carefully and haven't managed to particularly clear themselves but have been careful not to implicate themselves as possible scum either.

[MalcolmTucker]

Huh.

I'm intrigued that you have a player who you don't seem to have a real read on and you don't want to investigate it further, in addition to this, you immediately begin to push a counter wagon in Malcolm.

For all Rad has accused me of focusing in on them throughout the game, their default is basically to constantly go back to voting me before eventually compromising on another lim target when the rest of the town aren't as keen on eliminating me.

[MalcolmTucker]

Anyway, flip Malcolm after I flip green please. That would be 2 town in a row that have him as scum.

My gameplay here isn't within my scum range. I'm far more calculated as scum. My openness to just come in here and talk openly is representative of my town play. No way in hell does scum!Rad push Nancy again after barely surviving that first encounter with her. He pockets the shit out of her and lets her come to his defense. Disbelievers and scum are welcome on my wagon though!

Again, Rad basing their towncase on how they would supposedly play as town, ignoring the fact that good scum can try to manipulate other players by doing things that might not seem inherently scummy at a first glance.

And it's worth noting that Rad's push on Butterflies resulted in a brief, quick vote before they defaulted back to me. This reads more like Rad desperately pushed Butterflies then backed out of it once said push went nowhere, and now is trying to justify that push.

[butterflies]

Nancy, you really think scum work so openly together?

Well, it looks like RAD, Drap and Johnny have been circle jerking since last night and RAD hard defends Draps bae track and immediately jumps on me. Then Johnny posts “gottem” to me for God only knows what reasons, than RAD quotes it. Then he suddenly does a 180 and admits to some suspicion on Drap based on the lack of even one confirmable track besides Bell. Now they’re once again back to voting together.m

It’s possible I could be wrong on one but Luke is dead and hard sr RAD and both Bell and Luke were and Drap clearly believed T-Bone was doc and not you. If I’m wrong on one, maybe Johnny because he was jk’d but not even remotely confident on that at all but for sure there’s definitely scum in those three and if RAD and Drap are unaligned then why isn’t either of them even remotely suspicious of how hard each of them have been defending each other? Only Johny has expressed any suspicion before today.

Mala confirmed DNA hood was real and I see them as very easy push due to low activity.

Also n3 no kill couldn’t just be explained by furtive bp. CSF also claimed to jk Butterchurn on n3 iirc.

[MalcolmTucker]

I'm seeing some suggestions of Drap being scum and barring some very confusing mechanics I'm not grasping I don't see how that's possible given they were pretty much solely responsible for outing Bella as scum on D3?

I get there's likely been a lot of bussing here and I think it's perfectly possible someone is scum who's managed to look pretty townie with their pushes in the early phases of the game but I don't see what Drap has to gain by directly causing Bella's elimination? They're wrong on me and I think they're also wrong on Rad but someone with bad pushes can be - and often is - just uninformed town just down the wrong path.

[MalcolmTucker]

Hello friends. Not gonna reread 500 pages but just wanted to get back into the swing of things.

Where are we at right now?

Also this is literally Yeet's only post since replacing in for Taly so far. Maybe they're busy but feel like Yeet was typically a lot more outspoken and active from our previous game playing together. I wasn't as sold on Taly being confirmed town as others and intrigued to see Yeet's contributions going forward.

[butterflies]

I don't know, I flip on them a lot.

There aren't many posts that make me think town and I think a lot of the read comes down to Bella voting them over Math. But Math was almost definitely getting elimmed anyway so if Bella was bussing it was pretty safe?

I know you hate meta but I’ve played with scum!Ircher and he was very obviously scummy. They also tried to derail Math’s attempts to drive a miselim on me, so why would they do that, when they could have just gone along with it? It’s also a hard gut read, which I wish I had had on Mala but yeah, I’d be extremely shocked if they flipped scum here.

Especially since I don’t believe that both RAD and Drap are town and they keep voting together.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It’s possible I could be wrong on one but Luke is dead and hard sr RAD and both Bell and Luke were and Drap clearly believed T-Bone was doc and not you. If I’m wrong on one, maybe Johnny because he was jk’d but not even remotely confident on that at all but for sure there’s definitely scum in those three and if RAD and Drap are unaligned then why isn’t either of them even remotely suspicious of how hard each of them have been defending each other?

Hmm, yeah, I like this a lot actually.

[butterflies]

I'm seeing some suggestions of Drap being scum and barring some very confusing mechanics I'm not grasping I don't see how that's possible given they were pretty much solely responsible for outing Bella as scum on D3?

I get there's likely been a lot of bussing here and I think it's perfectly possible someone is scum who's managed to look pretty townie with their pushes in the early phases of the game but I don't see what Drap has to gain by directly causing Bella's elimination? They're wrong on me and I think they're also wrong on Rad but someone with bad pushes can be - and often is - just uninformed town just down the wrong path.

Because other than Bella, he has had no confirmable visits and he tracked a mason one night. BB - who had already stated he was holstering that night and me - an alleged “paranoia track” on a town neighbour - someone he claimed to hard tr instead of BBT - a strong sr of his, who was unlike me, because I have no NAs, was actually confirmable as town doc. And n1, he claimed rb when he tracked CSF but why does he track a mason town neighbour and a medium who claimed to holster? But the n5 track is the weirdest because he claimed to hard te me and sr BBT but he tracks me instead and I cannot visit anyone, so it unlike BBT can’t confirm his role.

[Rad]

if RAD and Drap are unaligned then why isn’t either of them even remotely suspicious of how hard each of them have been defending each other?

Zzzz read the game

Drap bbt Nancy is the sexy scum team non of us saw coming

I have a theory that one of these is correct at least

~GE

Me too lol (psst it's drap)

Drap is a scum badass. I read a scum game of his at beginning of this game. He takes charge and I can see him coming up with a scum master plan involving bussing everyone. Given the right team I can see it here.

I also try my hardest to ignore crazy ideas so I'm just letting drap be the masterful town scum hunter here.

Please vote in the top wagons, absolutely not drap lol

Also, if Drap is scum and he thinks Johnny is Doc, why is Johnny alive?

Cause why wouldn't Johnny be protecting drap? It nullifies doc completely and eventually town should be questioning why Johnny is still alive.

^ This one is interesting now because T-Bone we know was on drap and if bbt is town he's also been on drap. So instead of the theory including johnny it's really T-Bone and maybe BBT.

Drap is a scum badass. I read a scum game of his at beginning of this game. He takes charge and I can see him coming up with a scum master plan involving bussing everyone. Given the right team I can see it here.

I also try my hardest to ignore crazy ideas so I'm just letting drap be the masterful town scum hunter here.

Please vote in the top wagons, absolutely not drap lol

Can you link it? I really think he’s locktown here though.

Mafia game

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... ct[]=35673

Mafia pt

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... ct[]=35673

Why are you hard defending Drap here Rad? The Prof can defend their own actions.
~Cytosine

Why not?

One of my hero solves has Drap as scum.

I still think his move here was reasonable. Why not talk about it?

Yeah Drap could be scum. I've paranoid thought that for a while now. He's hard defended me for a long time mostly based on my emotional end of d1. I have a hard time figuring out if that means he's town with a smart read on me or he's scum. I think he probably resolves himself though in the scenario of town!drap town!bbt where bbt's dead tonight and drap follows the next night. If drap is alive near endgame, probably not a good sign. I don't think scum can safely leave town!drap alive as a wifom play cause he's likely to catch someone else.

Yes Drap has hard read me town since end of d1. Yes I've been suspicious about it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Based on play alone, I would be hugely surprised if Rad is scum.

But I thought the same about Bella so clearly I'm having a bad game.

[Rad]

Huh.

I'm intrigued that you have a player who you don't seem to have a real read on and you don't want to investigate it further, in addition to this, you immediately begin to push a counter wagon in Malcolm.

For all Rad has accused me of focusing in on them throughout the game, their default is basically to constantly go back to voting me before eventually compromising on another lim target when the rest of the town aren't as keen on eliminating me.

Yeah you're my strongest scum read here. We should flip you for sure. Maybe me flipping green will make that happen.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Have you managed to gain any reads from what you have read?

I sus Best Bird, still undecided on Pooky/Rad but it's the kind of thing where I'll probably land one way or the other. JohnnyFarrar is individually sus and seems to have partner equity with a few people. I'm just gonna townread Professor and Butterflies.

I still need to get up to speed with all the claims to form proper reads but this is from what I saw so far on D6.

Why is best bird scum?

[Cytosine and Guanine]

Huh.

I'm intrigued that you have a player who you don't seem to have a real read on and you don't want to investigate it further, in addition to this, you immediately begin to push a counter wagon in Malcolm.

For all Rad has accused me of focusing in on them throughout the game, their default is basically to constantly go back to voting me before eventually compromising on another lim target when the rest of the town aren't as keen on eliminating me.

Yeah you're my strongest scum read here. We should flip you for sure. Maybe me flipping green will make that happen.

If Malcolm is your strongest SR, why did you unvote him?
-Guanine

[Rad]

Huh.

I'm intrigued that you have a player who you don't seem to have a real read on and you don't want to investigate it further, in addition to this, you immediately begin to push a counter wagon in Malcolm.

For all Rad has accused me of focusing in on them throughout the game, their default is basically to constantly go back to voting me before eventually compromising on another lim target when the rest of the town aren't as keen on eliminating me.

Yeah you're my strongest scum read here. We should flip you for sure. Maybe me flipping green will make that happen.

If Malcolm is your strongest SR, why did you unvote him?
-Guanine

No one's interested in voting him here. If a c&g counter wagon can save me, so be it. You're not a strong town read for me anyway and you're on my wagon. There's probably scum on my wagon so you seem like a reasonable bet. Any town read I have of you comes from the effort put into summarizing your neighborhood convos. Beyond that, I still think you most likely lied about your restriction and the back and forth between G and C on reading me feels manufactured. Maybe I'm wrong and you're town, but there's probably scum on my wagon and you're just the most likely from my POV.

[Cytosine and Guanine]

Huh.

I'm intrigued that you have a player who you don't seem to have a real read on and you don't want to investigate it further, in addition to this, you immediately begin to push a counter wagon in Malcolm.

For all Rad has accused me of focusing in on them throughout the game, their default is basically to constantly go back to voting me before eventually compromising on another lim target when the rest of the town aren't as keen on eliminating me.

Yeah you're my strongest scum read here. We should flip you for sure. Maybe me flipping green will make that happen.

If Malcolm is your strongest SR, why did you unvote him?
-Guanine

No one's interested in voting him here. If a c&g counter wagon can save me, so be it. You're not a strong town read for me anyway and you're on my wagon. There's probably scum on my wagon so you seem like a reasonable bet. Any town read I have of you comes from the effort put into summarizing your neighborhood convos. Beyond that, I still think you most likely lied about your restriction and the back and forth between G and C on reading me feels manufactured. Maybe I'm wrong and you're town, but there's probably scum on my wagon and you're just the most likely from my POV.

I see.
-Guanine

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Well Malcolm, looks like both scum!Malcolm and scum!Rad defenses here are wifom based, and the most straight forward reality is option 3. Let's consider it indeed.

As I've said I'd be willing to compromise on Mala given the state of play, just unsure we'll actually find scum there.

Probably best to yeah.

VOTE: Malakittens

Why did you never move your vote from mala after this? Multiple alternate wagons cropped up after this.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

johnny

(also happy birthday bestie)

Who else can be scum?

[MalcolmTucker]

Well Malcolm, looks like both scum!Malcolm and scum!Rad defenses here are wifom based, and the most straight forward reality is option 3. Let's consider it indeed.

As I've said I'd be willing to compromise on Mala given the state of play, just unsure we'll actually find scum there.

Probably best to yeah.

VOTE: Malakittens

Why did you never move your vote from mala after this? Multiple alternate wagons cropped up after this.

I don't recall any of the altenative wagons ever being preferable for me.

I believed BBT was town and little has changed that since. I believe Johnny is very likely town and wasn't interested in going there either. Those were, so far as I can remember, the two main counterwagons proposed. I made clear Mala wasn't a strong SR for me but I felt like it was a better elimination than any of the main alternatives proposed.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I was a wagon, and you were scumreading me.

[MalcolmTucker]

I was a wagon, and you were scumreading me.

How far did the wagon get and when was it timed again? There were spells when I wasn't necessarily active for 12-24 hours or so and you eventually claimed once your wagon was building. Once you claimed it was unlikely you were going to get eliminated and beyond my general suspicion of you which even then I was aware could have been wrong, I didn't have much of a reason to doubt your claim. Until that point I'd have eliminated you over Mala. I'm a pretty sparse voter anyway and will often forget to change/add my vote.