Mini Normal 2279: VGSR - GAME OVER

[Greeting]

I don't think I am moving my vote elsewhere today. I mean, it's not impossible, but there isn't a lim I would want more than

Eiralox

.

I feel like you aren't making any attempts to be flexible and work with your team.

Eiralox

was a leading wagon until a few posts before yours. If that's not good town teamwork on eliminating a shady slot, I don't know what is.

Maybe you should reconsider why you're not on that wagon. The case on

Eiralox

is out there with nothing more to add.

Your case on Eiralox is horrendous vote Ausuka

Okay, but like, I asked

Nero

why

Ausuka

is scum a few hundred posts ago and I didn't get an answer from him nor from you nor from anyone else. So virtually nothing and no one prompted me to reevaluate that read.

I feel like you aren't making any attempts to be flexible and work with your team.

[Ausuka]

You sure flopped hard on that "ausuka is town" read as soon as I became a viable miselimination huh

[Frogsterking]

I don't think I am moving my vote elsewhere today. I mean, it's not impossible, but there isn't a lim I would want more than

Eiralox

.

I feel like you aren't making any attempts to be flexible and work with your team.

Eiralox

was a leading wagon until a few posts before yours. If that's not good town teamwork on eliminating a shady slot, I don't know what is.

Maybe you should reconsider why you're not on that wagon. The case on

Eiralox

is out there with nothing more to add.

Your case on Eiralox is horrendous vote Ausuka

Okay, but like, I asked

Nero

why

Ausuka

is scum a few hundred posts ago and I didn't get an answer from him nor from you nor from anyone else. So virtually nothing and no one prompted me to reevaluate that read.

I feel like you aren't making any attempts to be flexible and work with your team.

I think Nero had a good read on Ausuka and did a bad job explaining it. I think Ausuka's play is stylized and the replacement slots are having an easier time reading her.

[Frogsterking]

I don't think I am moving my vote elsewhere today. I mean, it's not impossible, but there isn't a lim I would want more than

Eiralox

.

I feel like you aren't making any attempts to be flexible and work with your team.

Eiralox

was a leading wagon until a few posts before yours. If that's not good town teamwork on eliminating a shady slot, I don't know what is.

Maybe you should reconsider why you're not on that wagon. The case on

Eiralox

is out there with nothing more to add.

Your case on Eiralox is horrendous vote Ausuka

Okay, but like, I asked

Nero

why

Ausuka

is scum a few hundred posts ago and I didn't get an answer from him nor from you nor from anyone else. So virtually nothing and no one prompted me to reevaluate that read.

I feel like you aren't making any attempts to be flexible and work with your team.

I think Nero had a good read on Ausuka and did a bad job explaining it. I think Ausuka's play is stylized and the replacement slots are having an easier time reading her.

Of course it's also possible that Nero had a good read on Ausuka and we did a bad job

listening

to it.

[Klick]

Sorting.

Greeting

inutile

Ausuka

furtiveglance
BlueBloodedToffee
Frogsterking

DeltaWave

PoE:

Juice
hutmeil
hoppip
Eiralox
Mohab500
Nuclear Gandhi

I don't know if you go on to explain it, but I'd be interested in why you townread BBT (past and/or present)
I always find it difficult to develop a read on BBT that I feel confident in

[Klick]

Unless I'm missing some potential for Greeting to be a master scum player I think they read as very solidly town?

[Klick]

Elaborating on scumpings is hard and I very rarely have genuine confidence in my scumreads, the closest I tend to get is 'this person isn't towntelling and they should be' which I know can be frustrating to be on the receiving end of but it is what it is

but Ausuka's posts don't feel natural to me. They feel carefully constructed. I don't remember feeling this way about Ausuka in previous games with them when I've generally been able to easily townread them. And it reminds me a lot of how I felt about Dunnstral in this game before shooting him.

[Ausuka]

do we have much experience together? I do not remember playing with you all that often and i know i have never had a scum game that looks even remotely close to this

[Klick]

I'm working from vague memories of having played with you previously and the vibe I had from you then
I don't play very often but I thought we had a couple of recent-ish games together?

What's different about this game that makes you town, then? I'm not afraid of self-meta

[Ausuka]

I mean I think you were in Datisi's pick your power and replaced out d1? Other than that I don't really remember anything

As scum I usually have a more difficult time like actually producing content? Like the pattern was usually that I tried to produce content but ended up being fairly lurky and people would catch on. To be fair I haven't rolled scum in a long time - I bring up my meta not because I think it's especially convincing but because I think it would be very difficult for anyone to have a meta scumread on me here.

[Frogsterking]

I had this one improv teacher who was pretty cool who taught us that the hardest lesson in improv is to learn to accept gifts.

Why are you scumreading Ghandhi? Bit of a non-sequitur I know but I don't want to get into your improv stuff.

I want to give us all a visual on the massive upgrade in player quality Town just recieved:

First 2 pages

- I guess what looked like inutile narrating Ausuka's play but then trying to

diffuse the situation

when asked about why, it was really him thinking out loud. I don't blame myself for finding it sus earlier, never seen that (usually when someone thinks out loud it's not so.. empty). I'm willing to mark that as useful engagement by inutile.
- Ausuka's read in 42 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480278 is reasonable, for the above.
- Frog's read in 41 https://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist. ... le&u=16233 also, though I'm surprised he could see everything so clearly.
- 45s https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480284

"? it could easily be explained as coming from either mafia or town, why would i only consider the scumread aspect of it?"

by inutei feels too defensive intially. But on a 2nd thought, it's again him describing his playstyle so whatever. Currently I want inutei alive for now; I'm very confident that their playstyle makes their slot very very solvable in the long run so it's benefitial to give them the benefit of doubt.
- 47 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480293 by Frog is just.. deliberately aggrevating with unncessary unhelpful demeaning comment? Why?
Also of note: given that me, inutile, ausuka and Frog have been the only players who posted thus far, and Frog called me Town in 48 and 51 while calling inutile and ausuka locktown in 47 - it makes Frog's claim of there being a solvable wolf slot already be his own slot?

page 3

- 58 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480346 by Frog makes no sense given the above, since he must be talking about himself?
- While I can see what DeltaWave means in 67 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480602 ; I'm not as convinced it's that AI for inutile. A decent early sus though, but a bit weak to follow especially when it's on a self resolving slot like inutile seems to be.
- I can agree with hoppip's 68 https://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist. ... le&u=36738 to an extent. I mean, I no longer think it's as bad looking for inutei as I originally thought but I wouldn't call them Town either like hoppip does.
- inutile, if you read this, what did you mean by "traction" in 70? https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480622
- 72 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480625 by DeltaWave is interesting in the sense that I don't think a player who hasn't played since 2015, or whenever, would be so directly shade throwy and so early if they were wolf? It's so "in your face" WIM energy, though I'm not sure. This read is entirely based on the idea that someone who hasn't played so long wouldn't be so fearless as Mafia, but I don't know what type of person they are. Good enough for a Day1 read as far as I'm concerned though.
- Really wish inutile in 74 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480627 didn't leave his comment to implications and instead said what they think. What's the point other than off hand shade throwing? If you throw shades at least don't leave them to implications and say what you mean.

page 4

- 76 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480629 Can I just say that, yet again, this makes way more sense coming from a Town!DeltaWave simply given the 7 years of not playing? I hate this read because without that fact, I'd call this shade throwing otherwise.
- 79 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480637 by DeltaWave, again, that's a fair view tbh.
- hoppip, if you read this, what's the difference between "looks bad" and "looks scummy"? https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480649 ; Though I can now see how "shading Inutile for superficial reasons" isn't necessarily scummy, as I got the same view on this re-read. But honestly, without that

hasn't played for 7 years

thing, I could usually never see that as not scummy.
- inutile, you're completely right in 88 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480742 ; I'd like to apologize for that.
- due to 90 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480744 I've the feeling that inutile is the type of person who's super easy to get voted out if you're Mafia, all you need is to sus them and their focus will be limited to defending themselves, which can only lead to their overall game contribution to look nothing but scummy. I think we should give inutile some breathing room. Again, I'm super certain that slot is easily solvable in the long run.
- At this point in game inutile is/was such a low hanging fruit, that I think 95 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480777 is a good look for Ausuka. Not by much, because multiple people called inutile town by this point. But I do believe a inutile miselim would had been an easy path for a wolf!Ausuka.
- I don't like 99 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480784 by Frog tbh. Because I don't see why would you townread someone for trying to communicate something that you yourself don't understand what it is. Because "it seemed important to them"? This may be a wild guess, but I believe it's possible for wolves to also have some importance in explaining and defending themselves. This is a bad townread reasoning tbh.


Alright, I know I only got 4 pages in - but I honestly feel good about my progress. I'm starting to tell slots apart from each other and have some view on how the game is going, so I think it'll be much easier for me the next time I come in. Nevertheless I'll need to up my activity a bit to be left behind.
VOTE: Frogsterking I got nothing better tbh; simply put the only slot who gave me some negative vibes on this re-read catchup.

Be back tommorow

First catch up post

inutile is obvtown from early pages
Hoppip probably town
Furtive town
Greeting town?

BBT is having very good takes early, 134 feels very accurate to me up to this point

The content Greeting gives around Page 6/7 feels not only genuine but also actually very helpful. If it continues then Greeting can be town

Frogster's solving so far feels more towny than scummy

230 doesn't feel like what scum really aims to be posting, but it does look like a genuine town stance. I want to see more of these because this is the first one I've seen from Eiralox
...eiralox then does basically the same thing in 234, I totally believe Eiralox's read on furtive.

Depending on the payoff of Frogster's 299 I totally buy into his zeal for this game and think he's town for it. Now to shake your scumread on this slot so we can start getting somewhere.

Eira reads a lot like they genuinely don't give a shit how they're perceived, which is something one would plausibly do as town but would necessarily have to not be doing as scum.

Frogster

could I get your opinion on this bit specifically


I'm up to Page 13 and now I'm going to take the kids out for a play. I feel like I've got a decent chunk of confident townreads and a few I want to see where they go. Ausuka should probably die if they don't towntell soon.

First catch up post

Klick is basically everything that Nuclear Gandhi wasn't.

[Klick]

Rate each descriptive statement on how well it describes you using the Likert scale (1 = strongly disagree to 5 = strongly agree).

"Get angry easily" = 4

"Take charge" = 1

"Make people feel welcome" = 4

"Like music" = 5

"Like to tidy up" = 1

"Like to visit new places" = 5

"Feel comfortable around people" = 1

"Interested in many things" = 2

"Love order and regularity" = 4

"Am afraid to draw attention to myself" = 5

"Enjoy being part of a large crowd" = 1

"Cheer people up" = 4

"Lose my temper" = 2

"Enjoy the beauty of nature" = 4

"Enjoy thinking about things" = 5

"Cheat to get ahead" = 2

"Feel desperate" = 3

"Rarely overindulge" = 1

"Easily resist temptations" = 1

"Have a high opinion of myself" = 2

"Waste my time" = 5

"Need a push to get started" = 5

"Have little to contribute" = 2

"Keep my cool" = 4

"Avoid crowds" = 5

"Turn my back on others" = 1

I've not read the payoff, have fun

[Klick]

I think the juice wagon needs to be evaluated. I'd reckon at least 2 scum there as its a very easy wagon.

I would argue that this is +town for Juice
I don't think Mohab is in a position at this point in the game where she would feel like her posts would genuinely persuade people off the Juice wagon
So I think the purpose of this post is not to actually derail the Juice wagon, but to either look good if it goes through as a miselim or to make Juice look bad if Mohab flips before Juice

[Klick]

greetings posts have gutpinged me for a while now, long before the juice fiasco. I thi9nk mohab voting there is natural;

This also doesn't really feel like straight buddying a partner.

[Klick]

if you town flip then it makes it look like furt knew you were town and Ausuka gets a huge downgrade. Also, you were a MND counter so your town flip also makes him very sus

I don't think Nero killed furtive

[Mapuche Never Die]

FYI, Ausuka just modded a game where Klick rolled over and died as scum after replacing into a slot which was under pressure. Ausuka claiming to be unimpressed with 1355 is probably a lie.

Klick didn’t roll over and die. He had a partner who was universally townread so he decided to lurk. This game if he were partnered with Eiralox, he would try as hard as possible to be townread.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Scum reads on Ausuka make 0 sense and that 180 from Frog was deliciously scummy.

[Ausuka]

BBT idk what ur doing this game but you're talking sense and I like that

(Also for anyone who is similarly semi familiar with BBT as I am I checked and he does know how to scum without lurking)

[Mapuche Never Die]

I do think the Gandhi replace out is scummy though.

[Ausuka]

I think Gandhi replacing out is probably NAI because he couldn't keep up

[Ausuka]

I guess it's slightly +scum in that replacements are slightly more likely to be scum than rand in general, but it doesn't do anything for me

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BBT idk what ur doing this game but you're talking sense and I like that

(Also for anyone who is similarly semi familiar with BBT as I am I checked and he does know how to scum without lurking)

You don't know what I'm doing this game?

[Ausuka]

More specifically you're not doing much and I expected the opposite from you and not sure why

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're right, I'm finding time to catch up thoroughly quote difficult so I'm trying to stay as caught up as I can with what I know.

[DeltaWave]

sorry i've been out of it. the last couple days have been extra busy as they always are before a holiday weekend. i'll contribute tomorrow morning if i don't do it tonight