Datisi's Café [game over!]

[Vivax]

But you basing your read on FG around your own actions is noteworthy enough. Comes from a mindset where FG is supposed to know you‘re scum bussing Ircher, since I‘m willing to wager there‘s more players than just FG who ‚didn‘t react to you not talking about Ircher‘ before voting him. But they aren‘t confirmed town

[Something_Smart]

960 and furtive's posts on the next few pages read like town interrogating a suspect, not scum looking to create interactions with a partner who is almost certainly going down.

[Lukewarm]

Vivax, you're comments on Furtive are not rooted in the reality of how day 1 played out.

No one was openly pushing Ircher at the time that Furtive drew all of the threads attention back at his slip. I do not think that scum does what he did, and he is my single strongest town read coming out of Day 1.

[Klick]

I don't give a rat's ass about 5 scum or 4 scum.

What I do care about is Ircher freezing. Ircher's last log in was today this morning after he was first asked about the question regarding his assumptions. While it may not be a slip, the freezing doesn't look good.

Idk if Titus is gonna rat out her scumbuddy like this

This is like the one post that has made me consider Titus!scum lol

[Vivax]

As long as we achieve 1,275 points out of 1,700 points each day, we will be fine. If mastina is setting hers to 0%, then we need to average 80 points per player to avoid the extra night kills.

Is this just you guessing that this game is a 17:4, or did I miss that info somewhere, or?

Ircher hasn't been on since this. It totally assumes 17/4 whereas I assumed 16/5 like other large games I've seen.

Ok....does the setup state how many scum and I missed it?

No, the setup states we don't know. The point is Ircher could be doing a sus TMI scum slip!

We shouldn't fire Ydrasse, I think they're an Employee. I'll vote Ircher for now but I might unvote if they come on and explain why they thought 17/4.

VOTE: Ircher

Uncrowned I voted someone.

Yeah cause when you see TMI as town you announce you‘re going to unvote if it‘s explained
As if burying Ircher at 9/11 votes could be called an interrogation

[Vivax]

The only acceptable argument for not voting Ircher as town is that you don‘t know if 4 or 5. Not expect an explanation because that implies you know it‘s 4

[Lukewarm]

Page 8: Furtive brings it back up

Spoiler:

As long as we achieve 1,275 points out of 1,700 points each day, we will be fine. If mastina is setting hers to 0%, then we need to average 80 points per player to avoid the extra night kills.

Is this just you guessing that this game is a 17:4, or did I miss that info somewhere, or?

Ircher hasn't been on since this. It totally assumes 17/4 whereas I assumed 16/5 like other large games I've seen.

As long as we achieve 1,275 points out of 1,700 points each day, we will be fine. If mastina is setting hers to 0%, then we need to average 80 points per player to avoid the extra night kills.

Is this just you guessing that this game is a 17:4, or did I miss that info somewhere, or?

Ircher hasn't been on since this. It totally assumes 17/4 whereas I assumed 16/5 like other large games I've seen.

Ok....does the setup state how many scum and I missed it?

No, the setup states we don't know. The point is Ircher could be doing a sus TMI scum slip!

Like, work backwards from there, and tell me why scum!Furtive suddenly thinks he needs to draw thread attention back to Ircher's slip

I'll even do the work for you, and grab each post about Ircher leading up to it (its not much)

Spoiler: Page 7 (Naked Vote from Titus

I like Ydrasse as town based on how things have progressed so far. Not really seeing the ausuka wagon. Not feeling mastina, even if I disagree on strategy.

VOTE: Ircher

Spoiler: Page 6 (actually nothing)

Spoiler: Mastina voices a scum read on Ircher on Page 5, unrelated to the slip.

Btw Roden is scum here pretty sure.

Because they didn’t read carefully enough?

No, because I've played with Roden enough to know that this isn’t Rodens towngame.
Roden is also not likely to genuinely make the mistake as town.

Beyond that, the contribution is generically a scum one regardless of the above.

is this premise the same one behind your ircher vote

The bolded, no. But the rest actually is; this is Ircher's scumgame and I don't think he makes the entrance he did here if he were town.

How many games have you two played together you think?

At least four, maybe more. (With me having watched at least another beyond that as a reviewer with Roden a player.)

nero is having fun and i for one respect it

I respect it, but I don't townread it. Nero's not being as obtuse/obstinate as his town self normally is. He's not exactly as hard-scum as Ircher/Roden are, but he's not above null yet. I'm giving it more time tho because Nero bleeds his alignment given time. But if I had to gun-to-head my read there right now, it'd be scum obfuscating his play.

have my powers of sarcasm failed me

For the record: town.

Gwoke up no reason pos t this good night

Ydrasse also town for suffering the same insanity of posting when they should be sleeping, that I am. (No really I was going to go to bed but then on a whim decided to start posting here.)

I'm not as convinced as others are that Andres is town, but I do

lean

town there overall.

Spoiler: Page 4 has my "joke" vote, and thats it

VOTE: Ircher

do do do do do do-do do

I'm convinced

VOTE: Ircher

Spoiler: Page 3. Only the Peta vote, which looks like an RVS vote

VOTE: Ircher

do do do do do do-do do

That brings up back to page 2, where I originally asked about the 17 player thing. Ircher is simply not the topic of discussion until Furtive makes him the topic of discussion.

So you think that scum!Furtive saw 2 votes that look like RVS votes. 1 Naked vote. And a scum read from Mastina. And decides that he needs to be the one to step up and make his partner a real wagon

I don't buy it.

I would probably bet the game on Furtive being town here. But if it actually gets to Elo with him alive, obviously that changes things.

[Roden]

@JJH

Spoiler: Klick posts that I vibed with

Nero just to be very explicit

The way you're playing is making it very difficult to get a read on you

Not necessarily saying you need to stop! but understand that that's happening

As long as we achieve 1,275 points out of 1,700 points each day, we will be fine. If mastina is setting hers to 0%, then we need to average 80 points per player to avoid the extra night kills.

The argument is that due to the math involved this post assumes that we're in a 17-4 setup, and that that's not an intuitive thing to assume.

Tangentially, I'd be -very- surprised if the setup were 16:5

Okay maybe not -very- surprised, but like, it doesn't feel right

I don't really know why Nero is so fixated on everyone scumreading him because I think exactly no one has expressed a scumread on him

i don't really get the mindset behind "hammer or move on" followed by "i want to vote RCE but don't want to dampen ircher wagon"

can you explain that more

specifically about the "or move on"

Ircher looks like he might get eliminated here
I am satisfied with that outcome

It also looks possible that the wagon will dissolve and other wagons will form
I'm not as happy with that outcome because I think Ircher is a better elimination than we would likely get if things were to dissolve. But it is an acceptable outcome and one we can work to our advantage

What I DON'T want is 'let's leave Ircher at L-2 for a few days while we don't do other things and

then

get cold feet and vote elsewhere' (which does commonly happen)
Because the stagnation would kill momentum in what's currently an active and fun and highly-Klick-motivating game

[Klick]

Titus could have been bussing but you would have to think they were on top of Ircher’s case very aggressively and maybe? It’s possible the Scum decided to take alternative tracks in order to not all get lumped together, but I seriously doubt all of the Scum bailed on Ircher immediately.

Ircher's role was pretty weak, and tbh Ircher gets run up D1 almost every game I play with him regardless of his alignment. I don't think he got hard bussed by his entire team, but I don't think they had much incentive to try to save him either. Best play for scum is for them to avoid being associated with Ircher at all IMO.

Scum don’t play like this when there isn’t a red check in play.

What do you mean by 'red check' in this post?

[Klick]

Mastina Luke is just town

[Klick]

furtiveglance
Vivax
fireisredsir
Lukewarm
Malakittens
PenguinPower
Ausuka
Andresvmb
Uncrowned

Ydrasse
jjh927
Titus
mastina
Roden

RCEnigma
Something_Smart

Merged the two middle sections, I think this better represents my current thoughts

VOTE: Something_Smart
I think he's been consistently scummy and isn't quite sure what to do in the current gamestate other than possibly eatch town implode

[Something_Smart]

What do you mean by 'red check' in this post?

A guilty result, I think.

[Something_Smart]

I think he's been consistently scummy and isn't quite sure what to do in the current gamestate other than possibly eatch town implode

That's what my towngame looks like, lol.

How have I been scummy?

[Vivax]

I think he's been consistently scummy and isn't quite sure what to do in the current gamestate other than possibly eatch town implode

That's what my towngame looks like, lol.

How have I been scummy?

You sure you aren‘t Dale?
Think you‘re town, but also...hiding something

[Vivax]

Irrelevant though.
Feels like a bunch put blindfolds on for this day to take some heat off of others. Still better than when they don‘t post at all.
Nobody interested in solar cycles I suppose.

[mastina]

Feel free to state these reasons, thanks.

Well for a start.

firing

Ircher [11]:

mastina, Lukewarm, Titus, furtiveglance, Ausuka, RCEnigma, Klick, BlueBloodedToffee, Vivax, PenguinPower, petapan

[HAMMER]

Ydrasse [2]:

Roden, Nero Cain

There is a big major issue with this.

But beyond that, ~role reasons~ (multiple), ~setup reasons~ (multiple), and play.

Explicitly so, yes, for multiple reasons.

Share with the class?

Well you gotta keep in mind, [Redacted because Roden hasn't fullclaimed and I don't want to give Roden info on how to make a more believable claim.]

(I can share after a Roden fullclaim but suffice to say Roden's claim is exactly that of scum in this game. It doesn't have something a town role should have in this game.) (That said, jjh gives part of it. There's more beyond that tho.)

Where's the scum power if two of them have useless roles?

Well that'd tell scum what NOT to fakeclaim, now, wouldn't it?

[mastina]

VOTE: s_sVOTE: [v/]

PP I am townreading you because I think I get why you are scumreading S_S and see where you are coming from and what you think.

But I think that S_S is town for a related reason that reverses what you saw and made it be town instead of scum.

[mastina]

Mastina Luke is just town

He really isn't.

Something_Smart is tho.

[mastina]

LOCKTOWN:
{Vivax, jjh927, Something_Smart}
{PenguinPower} (almost part of above)
{Ydrasse, Uncrowned, Andresvmb}
{furtiveglance} (could maybe be above)

HARD-TOWN:
{Ausuka}

SOFT TOWN:
{Klick}

{Malakittens, Titus}

POE POSSIBLE SCUM:
{RCEnigma}

LIKELY SCUM:
{fireisredsir}

SCUM:
{Lukewarm}

{Roden}

[Roden]

You’re using the NK to justify your vote, which is always suspect (it’s like you haven’t even considered that Scum make kills to confuse / frame the Town). But the single most important way you’re pointing to for identifying Scum in the game from day play conflicts directly with that vote. The fact that you’re not even acknowledging that is bizarre.

I'm voting Titus because it's a read on how she plays the game as scum. She kills threats and stays low key. I can scum read her independently of how I think the scum team played around Ircher's slip. If you think that's a scummy thought process then you're gonna have to explain why because I don't get it.

I didn’t call it Scummy I called it odd.

Imagine I said that I think Scum went out of their way to defend Ircher. And then I voted Titus. And when you asked me why, I made the NK argument you made. I would fully expect for you to ask me well, Titus actively attacked Ircher the entire time. Doesn’t that give you pause? Wouldn’t that contradict what you’re saying is the main reason to suspect someone to be Scum? That’s more where I’m coming from. Not being consistent with your thought process isn’t Scum indicative actually. At least I don’t think so.

The thing is that I wouldn't question you on that. I don't think it's odd to have conflicting scum reads, or have a specific scum read as an exception to how one thinks scum would play.

And I figured you saw the thought process as scummy because you were voting me. I don't think you voted me just because you think I'm odd.

I was trying to put a vote down based on what someone who seems to have a better grasp on the game is voting (I think mastina is Town?). I haven’t actually myself figured out who I think is most likely to be Scum.

I haven’t been historically able to read Titus properly. I think your points aren’t totally silly. I think if the Scum had two shots, shooting petapan who seemed to have a magnifying glass aimed at Titus makes a lot of sense.

Also, what do you make of 468 through 470 from Uncrowned? This is why I think it’s possible they’re Scum (if I had to summarize it).

I think it's a little out of place for them to suggest that because Ircher's wagon didn't hit a lull that it implies it wasn't a mis-elim wagon, when there wasn't really a chance for it to hit a lull in the first place. The focus on the Ydrasse wagon also feels weird, it was obvious the votes were just leftover from RVS. The vote on me is just kind of whatever though, like I thought it was weird when it happened since they seemed confident that Ircher was scum, and pressuring a low activity player is baseline scum play. But they aren't on my radar atm.

[Roden]

Feel free to state these reasons, thanks.

Well for a start.

firing

Ircher [11]:

mastina, Lukewarm, Titus, furtiveglance, Ausuka, RCEnigma, Klick, BlueBloodedToffee, Vivax, PenguinPower, petapan

[HAMMER]

Ydrasse [2]:

Roden, Nero Cain

There is a big major issue with this.

But beyond that, ~role reasons~ (multiple), ~setup reasons~ (multiple), and play.

This...didn't explain anything? Like at all.

[mastina]

LOCKTOWN:
{Vivax, jjh927, Something_Smart}
{PenguinPower} (almost part of above)
{Ydrasse, Uncrowned, Andresvmb, furtiveglance, Ausuka}

SOFT TOWN:
{Klick}

{Malakittens, Titus}

POE POSSIBLE SCUM:
{RCEnigma}

LIKELY SCUM:
{fireisredsir}

SCUM:
{Lukewarm}

{Roden}

Vivax, jjh, and Something_Smart are all locktown for different, but closely linked, reasons. They have all shown a towntell that I believe demonstrates they

cannot

be scum here and absolutely must be town. All look town to me by play anyway, but that tell has me convinced each of them is town.

PenguinPower

is almost up there, because I believe PP spotted

half

of what I saw on S_S, but not the half which makes S_S town. S_S towntold in a way that cannot be scum, but if you saw only half of it, you'd think the opposite, that S_S spewed himself as scum. I have to be quite tight-lipped about this to not reveal what it is tho, but I think that PP seeing half makes him town.

Ydrasse

,

Uncrowned

, and

Andresvmp

are purely play-based reads without the secret towntell present. I'm still sticking to this being Ydrasse's towngame. It's weaker than before, but Ydrasse radiated town earlier in a way I don't think is scum. Uncrowned's content has constantly been town. I've loved Andres's D2 posting (some in particular), and there's not enough room on a scumteam for both him and Malakittens so Malakittens trusting him is enough to bolster him to here regardless of Malakittens's alignment. He should always be town here and I

see

it.

furtiveglance

I initially had a tier below, but I decided after thinking about the people townreading furtive today's reasons, that I agreed with them. Was town D1 in an incredibly town way and I think is still worthy of the locktown tier today.

Ausuka

I had as below furtive but still at hard-town, yet I've decided to move Ausuka here after reviewing my reason for townreading Ausuka before, and I feel it still holds. Ausuka's play is incredibly anti-partner with Ircher in a way genuinely anti-partnery and with towntells that I believe are genuinely towntells. The whole exchange just looks town.

Klick

looks to be playing town, but not quite as strongly as others. It looks like what I'd expect from him as town, but I don't know what he looks like as scum. He's reasonable, he's making good posts, so his content is definitely town-sounding at the least, but I've no metric to guarantee it is the same way as I do my stronger reads.

Malakittens

would be locktown if not for a couple factors.
The first is that Malakittens was off the wagon, where I expect there to be 1-2 scum.
The second is that both the scum nightkills (confirmed to be Nero/peta per Vivax claiming the BBT vig) are the two players I would expect Mala to nightkill if she were scum. Nero wasn't widely townread, but Malakittens is one of the few players to know of Nero back in his glory days of when he was his most dangerous. Nero also knows Malakittens pretty well I'm pretty sure, so of all the players in the game, she has more incentive than almost any other to kill him.
Similarly so for petapan. I've never seen his towngame in full-swing before, but allegedly, it's pretty damn good from what I'm told. (I believe it, it's just that I've personally never seen it.) This means that basically anyone could/would kill him, but for some reason I seem to recall that peta/Malakittens have some sort of history too which if this memory is correct would make Mala want to kill him.

These factors keep Malakittens from being locktown, but she's still more likely town than not on her strength of play. It's purely NKA/VCA that implicates she

could

be scum and I trust my scumhunting-by-play tools more than I trust my NKA/VCA tools.

Titus

is at a similar level of divided read. Her play does

not

match her meta of being scum with Ircher. She protects her scumbuddies, and makes effort to make sure they don't fall. Her play with Ircher is highly indicative of that not being the case. All of this makes her highly likely to be town. But, a lot of her play feels like her scumgame and there are many things which feel "off" about her. So she's more divided, but also overall more town than not imo.

RCEnigma

has been null the entire game, but at this stage, 'null' with this many players with compelling reasons to be town is quite possibly indicative of scum.
He's not been strongly present in a way suggesting town. His content is highly forgettable. When he is town, I expect to remember his posts, and to have a lot of them be agreeable. But while he's making some reasonable reads, his posts overall feel lackluster. He's someone that it's easy to forget is in the game, which is a red flag indicative of possible scum.

fireisredsir

fits as the scum off the wagon, and by play radiates being scum. I feel Vivax caught a good scumslip from fire, and fire just gives off the vibe of being scum. There's plenty of small things that add up here.

Lukewarm

fits as the scum on the wagon, and by play radiates being scum. Though on D2 I'm sensing more stylistic similarities to Lukewarm's towngame, the D2 content is highly pro-scum in nature, looking to be scum that is in a tight spot and is trying to figure out a way to avoid a town sweep.

Roden

is scum ten times over in ten different ways. I'm never voting elsewhere, not even to vote another scumread. I'm not gonna lie, it ain't as strong as Ircher, but it's

pretty damn close

. If Ircher was 99% scum, then Roden is like 97%. I'll be honest tho, the main difference in that 2% is essentially, "I never catch two scum in a row. I always think I do, but I never

actually

do. I caught Ircher so I couldn't have genuinely caught a second, could I?"
Because by every other metric, yeah Roden should be as strong a scumread as Ircher. Genuinely the only reason Roden is weaker is that paranoia of me never normally being this competent.
But I'll go with the theory that I was a PROPHET when I said I'd be a SCUMHUNTING GOD, and that therefore I am indeed accurate here.

[Something_Smart]

I'm totally fine with hearing Roden fullclaim.

[Roden]

Spoiler:

[Something_Smart]

I'm not a Titus-scum expert, but I know she busses more than she did back in the day. Iirc, when she does it's generally in a heavy-handed way that isn't wholly incompatible with how she treated Ircher.