Mini Normal 2283 - Game Over!

[Thestatusquo]

So vote BBT with me.

[Eiralox]

So vote BBT with me.

why tho? i'm not impressed by toffee's response to me but by now i'm used to people taking issue with stuff i do early. i went over the posts RE: toffee/eira and basically it was pegged on them accusing me of being defensive, which i guess i sorta was but not always in the way people expect... like my personality can just be abrasive so meh ; /

Toffee's seemed pretty engaged thus far, and while i felt they were being a bit combative toward me, as i said earlier, i get that i haven't really yet posted aboout why i feel Asia is town. The only thing that's pinged me so far is their-sorta defense of elements but i guess i can chalk that up to reading error for now.

I feel better with my vote on elements tbh, i get the sense that they're hanging back, but i'll try to go over their latest posts after i've gotten to expanding bout Asia. Power's probably going out in like 14 mins, i think...... so imma make tea. maybe back later on mobile.

[Thestatusquo]

Idk I thought I laid out a pretty strong argument for why BBT is engaging with the game in a disingenuous way, and they have disappeared since that interaction.

[Solway Firth]

Sooo… I made a case for Frog being scum. As of right now none of the concerns I have have been addressed. The only “defense” I’ve seen is that Frog doesn’t play logically, which isn’t helpful at all.

That being said, he claims that he’s good at sussing scum out on Day 1, so I’m happy to let him scumhunt and reevaluate my own read based on how he does his thing.

Other than that, I really don’t have much to say. Last night more than half the player list had less posts than the mod. I think Fire is town and Frog is scum. Everyone else is a big fat question mark.

Let me put it this way. Frog doesn’t play illogically, he rather works behind-the scenes and isn’t always forthcoming with his thoughts. He also says things he may not fully believe and manipulates others to advance the town agenda. This often leads to him being scumread for tone and being manipulative. Frogster struggles to replicate this as scum. I do not have any personal experience with Frogster but I have skimmed through several of Frogster’s games and in those games seen people describe his meta.

[Enchant]

i mean i like enchant, from the little we've interacted so : P I want an answer for why Enchant is on Asia, but i'm ok if folk aren't as active day ones..... the one doesn't cancel the other, and me liking enchant doesn't mean i'm not holding open the possibility that they're scum.... they're pretty much null to me, but i want them to peek in and change my mind >.>

I ask simply because my understanding of enchant's meta is that when they're not doing anything they're way more likely to be scum.

I don't have meta

I am same idiot as both alignments, just more informed as maf


Either way, why the fuck i said "i can't explain" and you like "uh can you explain"

10/10 logic bruh


Either way i am not sure, but pushing Aisa is still my priority

[Aisa]

Did someone say my name? ^^

Either way i am not sure, but pushing Aisa is still my priority

I'm so scared! :c
What can I do to prove my towniness to you?

You criticised my page 1-2 read for being "surface level". What else do you expect? It's not like I presented it as anything different.

You said my argument was shallow and did the "I expected better quality from you" thing. Hey, I mean, maybe you're right and there's some sort of difference from my usual play that I cannot perceive. But I actually feel like I am the same Aisa as ever, and behind the quick-and-dirty "I tend to townread lots of quick posting" I did stop, reassess, and decide that I still wanted to stand by that tell.

it wasn't just surface level. it made no sense and when you later justified it. You self contradicted yourself, which isn't scummy itself. It just looks like ur trying to justify a read that made no sense which frankly why as scum do u need to do and u just go with this route of saying its just early feelings.

also theres lots of stuff shea is throwing out about BBT and i skimmed and should address it but tbh im just not that into it.

I don't think I contradicted myself. I genuinely did not notice or remember reading that Frog admitted to trying to look towny (remember it's arguable he said something else, but let's move on) and for you not to acknowledge that feels like you are misrepresenting me a bit.

hawt

Hawtter than Fire though?

[Enchant]

What can I do to prove my towniness to you?

Reveal as Innocent Child.

[Aisa]

Ok, let me try, maybe I'm a non-self aware innocent child

Reveal myself as innocent child

Also how do you think having your vote on me helps sort me?

[Aisa]

Can someone talk to me about Fire? I think I've seen some townreads thrown around, but I'm not sure I've seen them explained and I feel like that would be helpful. Alternatively, what do people think of my case?

VOTE: Aisa

Talk about this?

5 and 228 both ping me. The meta on Frog is eh at best and comes to a conclusion I disagree with. I wanted to have my vote on someone.

What part of my meta on Frog did you disagree with?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

My whole point is that you're not using it to discern their alignment and therefore mentioning it serves no purpose other than a) dismissing them and b) poisoning the well. I am asking why you're mentioning it if you're NOT saying its something that gives you insight into alignment. Generally people have a point for what they say in games of mafia. So when you start with "defensive much" it sets the tone for the whole post, given that "defensive" is generally used as an attack in mafia.

To the second point what about your post would actually help you discern that information? It seemed like an attempt to provoke a response that would be emotionally charged and not that relevant. Did you expect Eirolox to be like "oh yeah I'm trying to white knight someone" or something? Did you actually think the question would lead to information about Eirolox's alignment?

Mentioning defensiveness has gotten a ton of responses from players in the past that has helped me gain a read one way or the other. This doesn't work though if somebody starts prodding and poking before said player can even respond. I think if you are scum then Eira has a pretty high possibility of flipping scum too. I think there is a term for this but I can't remember it for the life of me.

The more disagreeable someone is the more they will try to win a pointless argument and the less conscientious someone is the less effort they will put into addressing every aspect of a person's argument *in general.* BBT has never filled out my survey and based on my experience with them I can easily see them being low conscientiousness and high disagreeable. In fact I think both Shea and BBT are probably low conscientiousness and high disagreeable.

BBT is lim bait from my experience and if Shea flips Town they can eat crow for putting themselves on a pedestal for rational townplay. If you two complete my survey I might be able to shed some additional light here.

Pedit

My first thoughts reading Shea's posts were "no that's wrong" and "looks like TvT"

I don't know if this is a defence of me or just theory talk. I take offence to being called lim bait as well.

I can see what bbt was saying though? Tsq kinda jumped on a thing and then was like 'haha you did a thing' when he responded. It felt like siblings more than s v s or s v t. I don't think tsq is scummy for what they did and I feel they believe in it, I still think it's lame and weird.

If you're scum, consider me pocketed. Again.

[quote='In post 421, Aisa"]

[...]
I'm also not crazy about the voteswap to TSQ, since it came pretty closely after BBT was leaning into a soft townread on that slot, but that feeling is pretty weak.

I think that's fairly standard for BBT, I wouldn't read much into it. [/quote]
This makes me uncomfortable, I'm not sure we've played together enough for you to be able to say that?

Definitely don't like how BBT went about that argument (esp. the OMGUS) but this one does also see it as potentially being not very AI. Pretty half and half on if it's scummy or not overall. As for Aisa, this one will probably need to ISO her posts and try and draw a conclusion itself.

What did you dislike? Why do you think it's not AI?

I mean honestly I don't think i defended Asia that hard, i only wondered why ppl were on Asia, cos from the get go i've gotten green vibes. so no, i mean it might be gut read but that doesn't mean it ain't strong.

i don't really see how I came off as defensive, snarky maybe, cos i mean if someone says my post is bad this early i can get prickly, i'd prefer if it if you were just direct and judged me on my actions, like 'i think eira's defense of Asia is bad'. Cos i gave other takes in that post that didn't have have anything to do with Asia or elements/fire so meh you saying the entire thing is iffy just rubbed me wrong. I mean i sorta get the sus on why I feel Asia is town, so i'll try to provide more than 'mah gut'

I disagree. You first asked why everyone was on Aisa (kind of a soft defend) and you then went on to say she feels 'wholly green' to you, which I think is a pretty strong read. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Idk I thought I laid out a pretty strong argument for why BBT is engaging with the game in a disingenuous way, and they have disappeared since that interaction.

Disappeared? I'm sorry, I post when I can. Sometimes it's once a day, sometimes more. Sometimes I get prodded, sometimes I post 25 times a day. Depends on how busy I am and through the week I'm usually pretty busy.

TSQ is attempting to paint every little thing I do as scummy. There is no way this is a genuine push.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can someone talk to me about Fire?

I think Fire is very likely to be town.

[Thestatusquo]

Nah, just when you do scummy stuff.

[Aisa]

@Not_Mafia

I'm vengeful, I promise not to venge you if you vote me

Yeah let's just vote me off

Who will you venge after we vote you off?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nah, just when you do scummy stuff.

Like going to work?

[Aisa]

[...]
I'm also not crazy about the voteswap to TSQ, since it came pretty closely after BBT was leaning into a soft townread on that slot, but that feeling is pretty weak.

I think that's fairly standard for BBT, I wouldn't read much into it.

This makes me uncomfortable, I'm not sure we've played together enough for you to be able to say that?

IIRC I looked at a couple of your past games while we were playing together in C9++, so I think the impression I have of your play may be from meta'ing you then?

I acknowledge I probably came off like we've played together more than we actually have, though. Apologies.

Can someone talk to me about Fire?

I think Fire is very likely to be town.

Sure, but why?

[Eiralox]

Can someone talk to me about Fire?

I think Fire is very likely to be town.

Sure, but why?

+1 i find firebringer hard to read tbh, and there's a few places where i've felt iffy on them... so i'd also like to know

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fire's first 3 posts feel extrenely genuine and I have a hard time seeing them coming from scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Eira, you still haven't explained your Aisa read

[Eiralox]

My whole point is that you're not using it to discern their alignment and therefore mentioning it serves no purpose other than a) dismissing them and b) poisoning the well. I am asking why you're mentioning it if you're NOT saying its something that gives you insight into alignment. Generally people have a point for what they say in games of mafia. So when you start with "defensive much" it sets the tone for the whole post, given that "defensive" is generally used as an attack in mafia.

To the second point what about your post would actually help you discern that information? It seemed like an attempt to provoke a response that would be emotionally charged and not that relevant. Did you expect Eirolox to be like "oh yeah I'm trying to white knight someone" or something? Did you actually think the question would lead to information about Eirolox's alignment?

Mentioning defensiveness has gotten a ton of responses from players in the past that has helped me gain a read one way or the other. This doesn't work though if somebody starts prodding and poking before said player can even respond. I think if you are scum then Eira has a pretty high possibility of flipping scum too. I think there is a term for this but I can't remember it for the life of me.

ok now u got my attention. what between me and the status quo gives you this idea? we haven't even interacted before today iirc

I mean honestly I don't think i defended Asia that hard, i only wondered why ppl were on Asia, cos from the get go i've gotten green vibes. so no, i mean it might be gut read but that doesn't mean it ain't strong.

i don't really see how I came off as defensive, snarky maybe, cos i mean if someone says my post is bad this early i can get prickly, i'd prefer if it if you were just direct and judged me on my actions, like 'i think eira's defense of Asia is bad'. Cos i gave other takes in that post that didn't have have anything to do with Asia or elements/fire so meh you saying the entire thing is iffy just rubbed me wrong. I mean i sorta get the sus on why I feel Asia is town, so i'll try to provide more than 'mah gut'

I disagree. You first asked why everyone was on Aisa (kind of a soft defend) and you then went on to say she feels 'wholly green' to you, which I think is a pretty strong read. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Uh you're not wrong..... but reading your posts i got the impression you didn't think my tr was strong? I mean it's pretty obvious that i'm defending asia, cos i i feel i have a valid reason to do so. it's just that at the time i made that post imho i wasn't hard-defending, saying Asia felt very towny in my gut yeah..... but eh. I'm pretty irked by arguing semantics tbh, so maybe it's best i move on to more productive avenues.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Definitely don't like how BBT went about that argument (esp. the OMGUS) but this one does also see it as potentially being not very AI. Pretty half and half on if it's scummy or not overall. As for Aisa, this one will probably need to ISO her posts and try and draw a conclusion itself.

What did you dislike? Why do you think it's not AI?

Mostly think that TSQ has something of a point. Not a decisive one, but something of one, and again the OMGUS wasn't a great look. But beyond the actual points of contention on how scummy or not scummy pointing out defensiveness is, Aisa and Grib pointed out the argument was mostly moreso a disagreement of personality than alignment, atleast in their eyes, and this one gets that kind of feel too. Your actual defense, to this one, feels like it could be either a town or scum defense, so it doesn't think this adds up to

too

much in it's book, for now.

As for Aisa, this one finally got around to reading her posts, and... Ehhhh? Nothing particularly jumps out at it as weird or scummy. Maybe it needs to read it over three more times with a magnifying glass but like, for now it's just gonna tune the Aisa wagon out of it's options unless something big comes up.

Not a fan of staying unvoted for so long so going to cap this post off with a VOTE: FrogsterKing in absence of a better vote.

[Not_Mafia]

@Not_Mafia

I'm vengeful, I promise not to venge you if you vote me

Yeah let's just vote me off

Who will you venge after we vote you off?

Your mum

[Thestatusquo]

They're accusing me of chainsaw defending you, which is an interesting accusation to make given that they previously stated they werent attacking you, so why would you need my defense?

[Eiralox]

Eira, you still haven't explained your Aisa read

yeah i said i'll go over it. i don;t rush these things so don;t rush me, anyway, i'll be trying to get into it tonight cos like with enchant's recent stunner of a post, your sus and fire camping on Asia i definitely will substantiate my feels, but right now imma take a break.

[Eiralox]

They're accusing me of chainsaw defending you, which is an interesting accusation to make given that they previously stated they werent attacking you, so why would you need my defense?

yeAH I mean i don't see that at all, your posts seemed pretty unconcerned about me and more focused on toffee's phrasing. so regardless of your alignment i never got the feeling you were defending me, more launching on toffee... though admittedly it's all a clusterfarce how I feel bout it and i think my snarkiness might have been the root cause so eh. So no i don't get toffee pairing us, not based on u defending me cos that never happened? Anyway imma break 4 real now bai -.-

[Eiralox]

@Not_Mafia

I'm vengeful, I promise not to venge you if you vote me

Yeah let's just vote me off

Who will you venge after we vote you off?

Your mum

the earth is our mother