Cosmos Mafia (Dawn 1)

[T-Bone]

3) Radical Rat's vote for T-Bone may be worth following because both slots seem to be null/scum for a lot of people, and they aren't on a team.

Actually the more I think about this the more it bothers me. And the more I feel it is pointless shade because this isn't true. Most people are putting me in their townlean to null area of those who have posted a read on me. (I'm very self centered)

Which ya know is disappointing for me. Give me your tired, your poor, and your scum reads.

But it does put at least egg on furtive's face if not allow me to point out that in this post furitive is trying to move the conversation away from where the thread currently is. That wouldn't be a bad thing, but I feel like you'd want to take better care to make sure you're somewhat accurate yeah?

I do need someone to sanity check my observation about furitive to make sure I'm not biased though.

I only highlighted the part in 866 about me but maybe I should have included 4 and 5

I am thinking Mastina and furtive are teamed.

Mastina is town for me, T-Bone's vote is a scum pile-on.

It's cute that you think that.

But rather telling that you're looking for permission to commit to it. It's not a real read.

These are the relevant posts Titus, you'll need to look at all of 866 to see the parts I should have quoted.

[Yume]

Well, there was that one game where I pocketed you...

When?

P.S. Scum Yume doesn't say this.

~Titus

If my memory is correct, it was four or five years ago.

There it was.

[Past Present Future]

Well, there is an easy check to ascertain whether mastina's town, one I can do. If it doesn't work as I expect, then you can have at her and I won't stop you, that's a promise. And I never break them, unlike some. All I need is a chance to perform it.

But then I have to trust you and I am frank I have zero way of reading you.

I am not used to being able to converse with you ever.

Hence why my read of you is let others.

So I would defer to my TRs

Honestly if you have such an ability I’d almost lean on you not outing it and doing it based on Mastina’s flip

Suikoden mafia and I have hydraed with Yume multiple times. I'd eat my hat if she's scum here.

~Titus

You realize I don’t trust you either and last time you said that phrase I think you were scum?

You don't need to trust me in order to know that I'm likely right there. The question is have I ever said it and been wrong? When's the last time I've been wrong on Yume?

~Titus

Well, there was that one game where I pocketed you...

I remember that one.

However, I also think this is town!Yume. Her play simply doesn’t make much sense as scum here.

[Past Present Future]

Well, there was that one game where I pocketed you...

When?

P.S. Scum Yume doesn't say this.

~Titus

The one where A50 had me so extremely upset, I bombed town!chkflip and he has never forgiven me for that.

[Past Present Future]

Furitive, you were supposed to wait a bit more before calling me out on that, if I explain the motivation right away it loses its value.

My opinion on DDR is buried somewhere in my posts, I'm voting DDR because a lot of people are calling them mafia without committing to it, and I find it suspicious. Are you afraid of placing votes? It takes nine to kill, no one will get mad at you for one vote.

Because of that post.

You think buddies actually make that kind of post?

[MathBlade]

Furitive, you were supposed to wait a bit more before calling me out on that, if I explain the motivation right away it loses its value.

My opinion on DDR is buried somewhere in my posts, I'm voting DDR because a lot of people are calling them mafia without committing to it, and I find it suspicious. Are you afraid of placing votes? It takes nine to kill, no one will get mad at you for one vote.

Because of that post.

You think buddies actually make that kind of post?

On accident, possibly.

I’ve done it in the past before.

I’d always flip furtive before Scarf though

[Past Present Future]

Furitive, you were supposed to wait a bit more before calling me out on that, if I explain the motivation right away it loses its value.

My opinion on DDR is buried somewhere in my posts, I'm voting DDR because a lot of people are calling them mafia without committing to it, and I find it suspicious. Are you afraid of placing votes? It takes nine to kill, no one will get mad at you for one vote.

Because of that post.

You think buddies actually make that kind of post?

On accident, possibly.

I’ve done it in the past before.

I’d always flip furtive before Scarf though

I think furtive’s town. I don’t know what makes you so confident on scarf?

[MathBlade]

Furitive, you were supposed to wait a bit more before calling me out on that, if I explain the motivation right away it loses its value.

My opinion on DDR is buried somewhere in my posts, I'm voting DDR because a lot of people are calling them mafia without committing to it, and I find it suspicious. Are you afraid of placing votes? It takes nine to kill, no one will get mad at you for one vote.

Because of that post.

You think buddies actually make that kind of post?

On accident, possibly.

I’ve done it in the past before.

I’d always flip furtive before Scarf though

I think furtive’s town. I don’t know what makes you so confident on scarf?

It’s not that I am confident.

It’s just I have a TR on scarf right now.

I don’t on furtive

I do see a world where scarf can be scum but it’s with furtive

So I would flip furtive first

[Scarfmanship]

I accidentally put that in a two line post in which i also address someone else asking me a nonfriendly question?

Mathblade, I...

[MathBlade]

I accidentally put that in a two line post in which i also address someone else asking me a nonfriendly question?

Mathblade, I...

You tell them they weren’t supposed to do something

How were they supposed to know if any sort of plan without a PT?

[MathBlade]

I don’t believe like every post is a scumslip but it is odd enough to mention for feedback.

It’s just one theory.

Just got done with work gonna chill a bit then flow chart.

[Enchant]

I pocketed all players of this game.

Powerful charms fills this room. Even when i post this message, you will feel unresistable wish to townread me for this further, or "nulllove me".

Does it make me good player? Perhaps. Winning mafia is first not dying at day, so simple doing that, i achieve wins.

Power of wins keeps me going further.


... Or i die to vig/mafia/anyone, who know.

[MegAzumarill]

VC 1.0.11


Mastina (7) Frozen Angel, Mathblade, professotic, MMR, T-Bone, Radical Rat, Maid Cafe [E-2]


Maid Cafe (2) Enchant, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow

professotic (1) Mastina,
scarfmanship (1) Furtiveglance
Frozen Angel (1) Radja
Mathblade (1) Yume
Radical Rat (1) Bunnyonce
Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (1) Scarfmanship

Not Voting (2) Save the Dragons, Past Present Future,


With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: 4 Days*

*Deadline will not officially decrease below 4 days Save The Dragon's replacement is found.

[Scarfmanship]

I accidentally put that in a two line post in which i also address someone else asking me a nonfriendly question?

Mathblade, I...

You tell them they weren’t supposed to do something

How were they supposed to know if any sort of plan without a PT?

By reading my mind. Most people know how to do this, if you have to ask, you're not one of them.

[MathBlade]

Mastina's flowchart
(Skipped prequel as I'm obviously not those people)

Question #	Answer	Notes (if any)
1 -> Is it D1?	Yes	Guide says to stop but Mastina has been elimmed as scum on D1, Source game from her wiki I know there's another more recent game, but I don't want to try to find it when I have 30+ questions to go.
2 -> Does she seem town?	No	Guide says to stop but this is misleading. She looks scum to me but town to others. I think there's enough town reads from others for a yes here to continue. Eg if we went with Yume's opinion we'd continue.
3 -> Trust her what does she do?	Did nothing / Milktown read and bully	Several players have trusted her to elaborate on her FA meta. She has dodge this question multiple times in favor of cherry picking my ISO and outing crumbs. Guide says probably town but proceed as a caution. I will note that one of the options is bully you which she is doing rather heavily here soon as I sussed her.
4 -> Pressure her	Freak out	She's really done all three, but mostly freak out. Guide says she's town however here's a recent scum freak out which is really similar to her freakout here. She complained about obligations but didn't provide much. Here she screamed I'm scum then gave nothing.
5 -> Is she posting up a storm?	No, but yes	No, she's not posting up a storm in general compared to town games I know her from. But some posts have been rapid. This again matches the multiball game. Guide says proceed (or if you view as yes proceed with caution).
6 -> Is she gloating about scum game?	No	No Definite proceed
7 -> Does Mastina have delusions of grandeur?	No?	Far as I can tell she's never thought she's a celebrity? I am pretty sure this means something else but I'm not sure how to respond to it. Either way it says proceed. A lot of these questions are proceed anyway and seem kind of meaningless.
8 -> Is she waffling	No	Her reads have been extremely static Definite proceed .
9 -> Does she look like she's wanting to leave a legacy	Maybe? Leaning no	She's screamed more that people suck than townreading her or recent reads. She seems way more focused on stopping the wagon versus a legacy. However before she went entirely 8 hour ISO there were hints? I put maybe for benefit of doubt.
10 -> Is she antagonizing everyone	No	She's antagonizing me, but not everyone.
11 -> Did she ramble about MD theory?	No	No Definite proceed
12 -> Has Mastina gone on long rambles in thread?	Not sure	She's done walls but I don't see any particular things like town rambles (like I cited earlier). However some of her screaming could be rambles? This is too subjective and when combined with trying to figure out day chat I don't know how to answer this question.
13 -> Has Mastina made a case for why she could be scum?	No	She hasn't scumcased herself. Definite proceed
14 -> Has Mastina gave strong reasons for why she's town?	Yes	She given threats as well as many LAMISTy posts Definite proceed
15 -> If applicable did she crumb her role and claim it immediately?	Maybe/No*	Going with maybe/no. She said she was crumbing, but I don't find any evidence of so and considering she didn't attempt any counter claim of my day vig, this implies she's not a vig. The fact she said our roles are similar boggles my mind she didn't do a sort of counter claim. I'm not really sure what she was alluding to (and it's not an invitation to ask) but she's welcome to explain when she gets to E-1. The maybe is more benefit of the doubt but that conflict is a logical bridge too far. Seems just rolefishing. Proceed maybe town/definite proceed.
16 -> Do the circumstances make her look town?	Hell no	Again this is a subjective question but this to me is an absolutely not. Seems a repeat of question 1. This says proceed but question 1 seems to continue. Continuing.
17 -> Is she irrational?	Yes	Guide says she's town. This is the first question that I agree with so far that's gotten a definitive town besides the contradictory one. However, as a counter example she was rather irrational in the scum game I linked. This question seems out of date. I also find things irrational that other people claim to be and vice versa. Not sure this question is meant for people like me.
18 -> Has she lost her temper	Yes/Looks fake	She's definitely lost her temper, but she's done that in town and scum games. I don't judge emotions as true/fake but Tbone said it looked fake. This therefore is unreadable.
19 -> Is she spewing random, illogical theories?	No	While this question is similar to 17, I'm going with no here. She's had one illogical, seemingly strategic theory and stuck with it. I'd go with a maybe but either way it's a proceed so proceeding.
20 -> Is Mastina's posting wildly inconsistent?	No.	Her posting has a consistent narrative. Therefore it cannot be wildly inconsistent. definite proceed
21 -> Does her posting look intentional?	Yes	Looks like she had an agenda to get me miselimmed. Guide says proceed.
22 -> Does she show interest in finding scuml?	No	She looks like she has her world come hell or high water. And I know it's wrong. Definite proceed
23 -> Do her points have a town point of view?	No?	I'm not sure what this means. I don't see a town person writing these posts. If I pretend she's town I don't see why town outs town crumbs. But it's a light no since I don't understand the question. I'm not really able to answer the second half of this question through Mastina's eyes as I'm not her.
24 -> Is she spontaneous/whimsical?	No	She seems deliberate and tunneled and goal focused. Definite proceed
25 -> Does she explain her reads with crystal clarity?	No	She's explained neither me nor FA nor a majority of reads with clarity. It's clear who she thinks is scum but not why. This is a proceed anyway.
26 --> Doesn't exist
27 -> Does she explain her reads with crystal clarity?	No	She's explained neither me nor FA nor a majority of reads with clarity. It's clear who she thinks is scum but not why. This is a proceed anyway.
28 -> If behind...?	Unsure	I'm unsure. Some things she seems to cherry pick behind others seem caught up.
29 -> Is she doing anything?	???	This question is filler as proceed either way. I do not scumread her for having a life. I scumread her for her hyperfocus, which even if I was scum (which I'm not) she's not trying to figure out my "scum plan" (it's in quotes as I don't have a scum plan as I'm not scum)
30 -> Is she scumhunting?	Imho no	The guide says she's town but I find she scum hunts when town and not when scum. Again she the prior games I linked.
31 -> Is there minimal resistance to elimming her?	No	SHE'S PROBABLY SCUM, run through the guide again

Overall I still think the condensed case summarizes my case nicely. I think the flowchart says Mastina is scum. Yume I'm sorry I don't see what you do going through this. Unless she towns it up I don't see your offer as a good one. I spent probably way too long on this but I think this from the wiki really summarizes Mastina's game perfectly right now.

Scumastina always has this laser-like focus. Losing focus has done nothing but screw me over. People like focus. They like confidence. They love to see assurance in a read. They want to have a figure be charismatic and to follow. It's an inherent part of people's nature. That's why tunneling is so prevalent, because it works DAMN good and well to get a elimination. People hate doubt. When someone is calling everyone town/scum in rapid circles, AKA circlejerking, people think it's scum trying to miselim anyone. They see desperation and attribute it to being scum. They don't see a town player desperately trying to figure out the game. They see a scum player that is trying to find options. As scum I'd push a elimination through; as town, here I am without a clue.

She has had a laser focus incorrect on me.

Edit: Removed L-Word

[MathBlade]

I'm sorry the l word was present from the wiki. Please pretend that says elimination. That should probably get fixed post game.

[MathBlade]

Hopefully all the notes I gave show you what I am thinking.

I am brain fried. I am chilling the rest of the night. I was hoping that’d have some sort of insight but I don’t see that.

[professotic]

Team 1 Mastina/Bunny/PPF
Team 2 FA/Radja/Dingle

[Past Present Future]

Team 1 Mastina/Bunny/PPF
Team 2 FA/Radja/Dingle

I thought you were null on Radja and when did FA get in there?

[Past Present Future]

10 ->

Is she antagonizing everyone

No She's antagonizing me, but not everyone.

That’s pretty much what happened in that Mastina scumgame I referenced. She was pissing off a lot of people in that because she made like a gazillion posts AtEing pretty much for the sake of AtEing. It was excessive and felt really manipulative. I don’t feel that here. I’m not going to be able to explain to you why but this is her town meta.

[Past Present Future]

I accidentally put that in a two line post in which i also address someone else asking me a nonfriendly question?

Mathblade, I...

You tell them they weren’t supposed to do something

How were they supposed to know if any sort of plan without a PT?

By reading my mind. Most people know how to do this, if you have to ask, you're not one of them.

I’m sure I’ve never played with you before, are you an alt?

[Past Present Future]

(The irony is not lost on me that normal mastina would see the post I just made as scum, believe me. I am quite aware of the sheer irony of how I would be pushing myself for making that post, in spite of me knowing that it’s town, and that me talking about it would make me even more sure it came from scum. The likes of Roden are probably laughing their asses off at the karmic irony.)

So the thing you maybe don't see is that you were already doing it.

I'm going to remind you of my philosophy to scum hunting, not so that we can argue, but so that maybe you could see what I see. Not every post is alignment indicative. Most posts a player makes are NAI, and what separates town and scum is finding the few that are.

Here's what I clocked very early from the game, before you described what you described in 1097. It is clear to me you have a vision of what town!Mastina needs to look like, and you are trying to make every post you make conform to that vision. If you are town, I would say needlessly. But you kinda voiced what I was observing all along.

What separates this for me from being something that is NAI, is your post #729 where you cite your first two posts of the game as some part of your master plan to catch scum. And I think you know what I know, that you were trying to play this up as something town!Mastina does. I don't know if you believe it for real. But I think you believe that other people would believe it, and that's why you made those parts of #729.

Normally I wouldn't sit here and explain to you why you're scum, because one way or another you know the truth. But maybe if we're to salvage the game in case you are town, considering another point of view on you might be helpful.

To me, #729 and some other bits of Mastina's posting shows me that she is trying to play the part of town!Mastina rather than be a town player. I think it's well documented how much Mastina believes in meta, and I think she believes in it so much that she feels forced to try and project her meta onto her gameplay. This isn't necessarily scum-indicative on its own, I think Mastina would do it to some extent as town. But from my point of view it crossed the line of town!Mastina needing to play a certain way to scum!Mastina needing everyone else to see a certain vision of her play.

Hopefully that bit of insight helps others too who are not sure what to think about Mastina.

This would be a good point if not for one crucial factor you leave out.

Living up to the concept of mastina is not exclusive to scumastina. (That, aside from how scumastina genuinely doesn't care to try to be town mastina, because scumastina has her own style which works in spite of being night/day different. Scumastina doesn’t even try to look like town mastina, because she knows that town mastina is a liability to try and mimic. I don't need to look like town as scum, nor do I need to effort nor force an elimination. All I need to do is not be the default elimination for a day, and let the town eliminate town. I don't need to push town, nor power town S scum. Because just the bare minimum works better as scum.)

I have a strong drive to live up to the ideal of mastina as town, too. Because mastina is an IDEA, a CONCEPT.
mastina is a philosophy.

The philosophy is different as different alignments. Scumastina, find the easiest least effort path to victory where I can be the laziest.

Town mastina, to be a charismatic unwavering force of nature. Unrelenting. Never giving up on true beliefs, and holding plenty of them.

I always feel the pressure of trying to live up to the expectation, and usually I do.

But this he'll week, I just can't.

I give up on being mastina.

Oh worth mentioning:
You're right about one thing tho:

I know my meta best.

I know me better than everyone else.

When I am scum, I know exactly how scum I am. I know that I am not playing to my towngame. I might--justifiably--feel like certain aspects of my play are dead on mimicking my towngame, but while I might fake a post saying as much, no, I never truly believe that I have perfected a town-mastina guise as scumastina. Not only would doing so be detrimental even if I succeeded, but also the task is literally impossible.

You cannot mimic the full package of my towngame. It’s literally impossible. I fundamentally think differently as town versus scum. Language use, emotions, everything is night and day different. (We suspect that it’s literally different facets playing, but since we haven't had a scumgame since our plurality breakthrough, we wouldn't know yet. We'll have to rand scum to actually test that.)

If it's quite literally an entirely different person playing when town vs. Scum, then that person cannot fully pretend to be the other. (Which is why we don’t actually try.)

So with that said:

We know our meta, and thus, we know that we were not outside of it. In fact, we're doubling down on this statement:

This is the towniest game that we have EVER played in our entire mafia career. We have NEVER been this more clearly town. EVER.

I can't manage to be mastina right now, but that doesn't change how I still know what my meta is, and how I was in my town meta more clearly than I have ever been before. Literally the towniest game I have EVER had.


So let me reiterate:
If I am eliminated, then EVERY town player has their reading rights on me revoked PERMANENTLY.
My not being able to be mastina doesn't remove that I was still clearly town in spite of struggling to be mastina. In fact it's quite literally the exact opposite.

So I will quote this in EVERY future game you play with me in where you so much as HINT at having me south as null.
I. Will. NOT. Let. You. Forget.

Because I am NOT having an "off game".
I'm not able to be mastina, but I AM able to be clearly town anyway.
This IS my town self.
Try to fucking pretend it wasn't as much as you'd like. I know myself better than you do. I know my meta better than you do. So I know that I was playing to my town meta here.
And thus, future you has ZERO wiggling room to claim otherwise.

If you can't see that I'm town here, you can't fucking see that I am town in ANY game. PERIOD. Because if you can't see me as town in the towniest game that I have ever had, you can't see me as town at all.

Can’t wait to see Prof’s new PoE when this flips town.

[Past Present Future]

And she will flip town. bank

[MathBlade]

10 ->

Is she antagonizing everyone

No She's antagonizing me, but not everyone.

That’s pretty much what happened in that Mastina scumgame I referenced. She was pissing off a lot of people in that because she made like a gazillion posts AtEing pretty much for the sake of AtEing. It was excessive and felt really manipulative. I don’t feel that here. I’m not going to be able to explain to you why but this is her town meta.

Ate doesn’t count as antagonizing to me. Antagonize means to make hostile.

I think the only players she’s done that with is me

The ate is definitely excessive (given mod intervention I feel that’s fair)

And I feel it’s manipulative to try to escape the block.

I think the only person who could save Mastina is her.

[MathBlade]

But regardless if you’re arguing antagonizing everyone = scum Mastina
You’re arguing against the reasons Yume thinks Mastina is town.

So I fail to see your point?