Warrior Cats Mafia [Day Three]

[NorwegianboyEE]

Sorry, i’d have tried harder if i knew you were left hanging.

[Alisae]

I am the only person who is even attempting to generate activity in hood.
Val didn't even post in hood once.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I want to think for myself a bit though. I get that everyone wants to kill Kitty and i even thought it might be a good lim during the night. But i’m wary that i’m just letting popular thought manipulate my actions so i want to just take a short break, and re-read day 1 with the flips in mind and come to completely unique conclusions. I just finished a newbie where i tried garnering reads by just detaching myself from the game and i got really good reads from it. So i’ll do that once i feel ready.

The newbie if anyone is interested -> https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=90000

[KittyTacky]

As I said I am a little discouraged by people ignoring me when I am trying to engage beyond defending myself and pushing my scumreads.

I STILL READ DISGUST AND DISMISSIVENESS INTO YOUR POSTS. FOR EXAMPLE HERE I THINK YOU'RE DISMISSING WHAT I SAID SO YOU CAN TRY TO PLAY THE VICTIM IN ORDER TO GET WHAT YOU WANT. I THINK THIS BEHAVIOR IS AI FOR DARK ONE.

Alisae's "case" on me is all flash no substance BTW. Lots of smarmy rhetoric, little behind it. Contrast with Datisi who seems more genuine.

the latter I have doubts on though

why

It just feels hard to read them.

I THINK THIS LOOKS PRETTY SELF CONSCIOUS AND IS THROWN IN HERE TO CREATE DISTANCE BETWEEN KITTY AND DATISI. I DON'T BELIEVE THIS IS SCUM TRYING TO IMPLICATE DATISI, I THINK THIS IS SCUM TRYING TOO HARD TO CREATE ANTI-ASSOCIATIVES BETWEEN THEMSELVES AND DATISI.

1. Yes I am disgusted by the fact that Alisae is pushing me with one step above naked votes and people are following her. And I did not dismiss what you said.
2. What about my argument for Datisi town doesn't make sense?

[KittyTacky]

It is a true statement because I said Mastina is town and she flipped town. And I was pushing Norwe, I just wasn't posting a whole lot about it because I was busy defending myself.

Yes because pulling an Mastina where you just say some absolutely dumb shit like: "We flipped town and that means their asinine scumread is correct" will get you somewhere.
I’m sure Mastina is cheering for you in dead thread, but fact is that they were simply wrong and didn’t have a good point other than whatever the fuck a "soulread" means for them. So why are you sheeping it?
Give me a good answer or i’ll vote you. I don’t give a fuck.

This is 100% how you play as scum, I remember it pretty clearly. Also tone tbh. Like this post has a caught frustrated scum vibe.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Your vote is a naked vote.

[NorwegianboyEE]

My literal only fear is that you are another arrogant town that scum is hiding behind so i’ll reserve my vote despite your answer being extremely unsatisfactory.

[KittyTacky]

Sheeping is not a naked vote.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Like scum could just be banking on the lone dumb town voter being voted out for sussing me and that’s the strategy because town!Alisae has white knighted me this game and so it’s easier than pushing the lim on me.
So even though all of my fiber is screaming to bash Kitty into oblivion i’ll give it some more thought.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Sheeping is not a naked vote.

Yes it is. Mastina voted me for no reason so sheeping is effectively the same. Except you can hide behind another persons dumbassery so it’s objectively worse.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ah shit, now i realize why i didn't focus on this game during the night. Because it makes me unable to control my emotions.
I'm taking a break.

[SCRRRDBEAR]

There's a genuine conviction there. Scum would be a bit or a lot more cautious pushing a townie.

YOU DON'T CONSIDER THAT THIS IS FAKED?

VOTE: TITUS

[SCRRRDBEAR]

VOTE: KITTY

[SCRRRDBEAR]

It is a true statement because I said Mastina is town and she flipped town. And I was pushing Norwe, I just wasn't posting a whole lot about it because I was busy defending myself.

Yes because pulling an Mastina where you just say some absolutely dumb shit like: "We flipped town and that means their asinine scumread is correct" will get you somewhere.
I’m sure Mastina is cheering for you in dead thread, but fact is that they were simply wrong and didn’t have a good point other than whatever the fuck a "soulread" means for them. So why are you sheeping it?
Give me a good answer or i’ll vote you. I don’t give a fuck.

This is 100% how you play as scum, I remember it pretty clearly. Also tone tbh. Like this post has a caught frustrated scum vibe.

Your vote is a naked vote.

My literal only fear is that you are another arrogant town that scum is hiding behind so i’ll reserve my vote despite your answer being extremely unsatisfactory.

Sheeping is not a naked vote.

Like scum could just be banking on the lone dumb town voter being voted out for sussing me and that’s the strategy because town!Alisae has white knighted me this game and so it’s easier than pushing the lim on me.
So even though all of my fiber is screaming to bash Kitty into oblivion i’ll give it some more thought.

Sheeping is not a naked vote.

Yes it is. Mastina voted me for no reason so sheeping is effectively the same. Except you can hide behind another persons dumbassery so it’s objectively worse.

LOOKS SvS

[SCRRRDBEAR]

FOS KITTY, DATISI, NORWEE AND TITUS

[Datisi]

hey bear, do you think me pushing kitty throughout like half of day 1 is also trying too hard to create anti associates?

wait, no, you probably didn't read a single post i made past like page 20 or whenever it was. sure. cool. excellent play.

[Charloux]

I think we need a change of perspective.
Apart from kitty and T3, who do you feel is scummy?

@A

[Datisi]

I think he is trying to powerwolf with his play and I think he is one of those people that a lot of people townread for like, no reason??? Like, I don't think anyone really said why they were townreading Bear and I think it's one of those reads where it's like "if you start poking holes at it it just doesn't seem like it's a villager???"

i have a very strong sense that bear's scumgame is much, much less capable than this. quality of reads isn't something you can read him by.

People are telling me to engage more but at the same time not engaging with me when I try to facilitate that. So, ask me anything, take two.

this feels like... something scum would say, i think? like it's showing a clear misunderstanding of what people actually want from him.

is it exactly scummy? ehh, i dunno. his play already has so much scummy in it, i probably don't even need this point, but it felt like something that i should call out anyway.

oh yeah, also i DID ask kitty questions about his townread on me, and yet he did not respond. funny.

[Datisi]

okay i'm gonna out some of my vague gamestate feels and y'all can yell at me for being stupid if you want

first things first, i feel like alisae and kittytacky are likely to be s/t, in some direction. i feel kittytacky is strongly scum, and i wanna murder there. if he does flip scum, i don't think alisae-scum treats their buddy like that.

however, if kittytacky is to flip town, then uh. alisae's play this game starts to 2/2 fit into the mold of what i expect them to do as scum. their early d1 play didn't give me the feeling of [doing business] that i'd expect from scumlisae, and i can maybe excuse the mastina flip, but 2 wrong flips (pushed in the manner i'd expect from scum-them) is going to be a problem.

my less clear thoughts:

- if kitty is scum, i feel that mastina's wagon was mostly town-led. because like, idk i feel like scum would want to keep mastina around, because it was very clear mastina is going to be a lot of noise, and i kind of don't think kitty/norwee are s/s (though i'd double check on that; mostly talking from memory here) so mastina being alive would've been a great distraction. and she's claimed to be a not powerful role in the hood, and nonzero chance there's a mole in that hood, so.

- if kitty is town, i feel like alisae is a very likely scum candidate. especially since... well i really think bear is town, and the fact that alisae keeps positioning themself to push bear in the near future, it does not give me good vibes. like, lowkey i'm wondering if i'm getting pocketed by alisae shitting on bear's push on me. not sure if i have any thoughts further than that in this universe, i think i had some sorta idea of mastina's wagon being scum-led in this universe, but i don't remember why anymore.

i guess, even if kitty did flip scum, i would have to reread kitty/alisae anyway, because (assuming mastina didn't straight up lie about alisae's meta), a history of strong uses could potentially be an issue, but... this is a problem for another day.

[Datisi]

VOTE: kittytacky

as for who else i want to sus -- idk lol. t3's posting is kind of bad, and i wanna hear what shiro/marashu have going on.

these all feal kind of... lhf, so i am very likely misreading someone, probably multiple people, so i'll keep an eye out on that ig.

[Charloux]

FA did call me scum though. They decided that their point wasn't invalid about me accusing Mastina of being scumstina because of meta and that it was opportunistic.
And now they're dead.
Coincidence? *hides smoking gun*
Maybe!

Yep Bell is obvtown, let's all sheep him! *Whispers* please don't kill me...

It was a complete graveyard bro no one wanted to play

Same. Kitty posted a one-liner but i didn't want to bother replying. The leader pt was silent as well.

I don't regret flipping it I'm pretty happy that I did, it's the best flip in the game because I think it says a lot about the gamestate regardless of flip, ya know?
Pretty good flip to work off of.

I'd agree, if I got anywhere.
Which I didn't. It's all just speculation. A lot of players gave stuff away by how they navigated Mastina's wagon, but I can't seem to draw good conclusions from it.

@Alisae: So what did you figure out from the flip? Cuz i sure as heck didn't find out anything.
@Bell: Any juicy bad one?

I called it. I fucking called it. Now let's catpile Norwe.

VOTE: Norwegian

IDK THOUGH DOES DARK KITTY MAKE A POST LIKE THIS?

VOTE: DATISI

Kitty's posts have been scummy from the beginning and at this point i think he is doing it on purpose cuz of reverse psychology.

I called that Mastina is town. IDK why I am being flashwagoned. I think we should follow mastina's reads now that she is conf town.

I think you know very well why you are being flashwagoned. What makes you think town can't make mistakes? And i'm pretty sure people can't read souls, so this whole line of thought is redundant.

Get Norwe, then get Alisae.

Why not Alisae first? You better not say you are following Mastina's instructions and turned your brain off.

kitty if you are town it would be helpful if you have some thoughts on the rest of the game I think

or like outlined your thought progression more

because right now everything you say just sounds kinda fake

when you say "Angry scum" it either sounds like false bravado or like you're trying to set up fake associatives or something for when you flip

so like less comments like that and more comments that elaborate on why you're reading specific people in specific ways

if you're town of course

if not, carry on

Great objective post, we need more people like this instead of being emotional and reactive all the time

IDK IS IT A MISTAKE FOR ME TO TOWNBIN VAL?

if so, we are both making a mistake

Can you explain to me why its a townbin instead of a townread?

btw when i saw 2 PMs in my inbox i was so sure i had failed to see day 2 as town yet again

I got chills down my spine. The only game i'm /in-ed right now is the bastard one which will take ages to fill if at all.

would it be Bad and Wrong of me to think that the FA kill makes it more likely that one of the leaders is scum

I'd argue the opposite. Her role flip just enhances my theory that scum don't know who gets promoted since we can't protect them. Well there's also the warrior ceremony provides 1-shot bp.

I think we should follow mastina's reads now that she is conf town.

Like, this is not real man.

*points to random post* THIS IS NOT REAL

And I'm the one not playing? Your case on me amounts to "his tone is weird".

She didn't say your post is fake. She said "this is not real" in disbelief.
Btw say a number between 1 and 67

would it be Bad and Wrong of me to think that the FA kill makes it more likely that one of the leaders is scum

how come? i don't see how it indicates either way really, the leaders seem like good kills from what little i know + she was townie.

i guess

I was thinking along the lines of the scum in the leaders come closer to gaining control over who gets the warrior ceremony

Wouldn't it be sus if leaders start dying one after the other, but the last one doesn't?
I think the FA kill has to do something with her reads or she was so obv town after her defending Mastina that she just had to go.

Give me a good answer or i’ll vote you. I don’t give a fuck.

Hate this.

I want to think for myself a bit though. I get that everyone wants to kill Kitty and i even thought it might be a good lim during the night. But i’m wary that i’m just letting popular thought manipulate my actions so i want to just take a short break, and re-read day 1 with the flips in mind and come to completely unique conclusions.
This is 100% how you play as scum, I remember it pretty clearly. Also tone tbh. Like this post has a caught frustrated scum vibe.

One more for pragmatism, let's keep it up

Sheeping is not a naked vote.

Yes it is. Mastina voted me for no reason so sheeping is effectively the same. Except you can hide behind another persons dumbassery so it’s objectively worse.

LOOKS SvS[/quote]
Erased a part that shouldn't be erased *sigh*
What part looks SvS? Norwegian's annoyance looks genuine to me.

[Charloux]

@Dann:
Could you explain to me your thought process behind the wagon on Mastina.
1)You made a case on Alisae
2)Alisae called for a wagon on Mastina
3)You instantly sheeped her

[Bell]

whatever this clan leader thing is, at least 2 and i bet 3 of you are outed so maybe there's not any point in playing coy about it

we all are outed to each other anyway. so there is nothing coy about it at all. and its certainly not making any of us more or less town/mafia. if anything I lean on at least facing one mafia leader based on the mechanics involved but I bet it had randomness too.

I am river clan's leader.

so if you've been influenced by a leader wrongly to assume they have a very special role that clears them, you better start not trusting what your leader said about it.

So FA claimed publically in thread to be leader so @Dannflor it doesn’t really slam dunk that there is a scum in leaders cus anyone could read that.

Oh my god, I missed that.
But oh my god.

[catboi]

I have basically not been thinking about this game at all because it pained me to do so but I am back now so let's go

why is it scummy?

Because T3 doesn't seem to be faking imo and just seems to be genuinely struggling with catching up.

Yes they are a null read but the wagon is still strange because I don't see a good reason for it.

Might as well disclose it since scum likely know by now.
Titus joined Wind Clan and I asked in wind clan if we could potentially flashwagon T3 since I townread everyone else in hood. This makes sense since we were talking about if there was scum in the hood and I thought if there was scum in our hood its probs just T3.
Norwee agreed with the idea so I went with it. I obvs couldn't get to check in with Val or Shiro about it since time was kind off of the essence. It was an idea worth trying because maybe if we did say eliminate T3 and flip him before he could tell scum that Titus joined Wind Clan, that would be a huge edge to have over scum. This is assuming he does flip scum ofc.

Ah. Well I think you're scum, this wagon is scum-motivated, and so T3 is more likely town unless it's a bus. :shrug:

I have a big issue with this and it's that the reasoning is essentially circular - alisae is scummy for wagoning T3, T3 is null but he's more likely to be town because alisae is wagoning him, there's no root reasoning for any of it. I thought alisae's reason for the vote was basically fine even if the declaration of "we gotta flashwagon T3" was weird

and as far as I can tell kittytacky has basically never, at any point, had a coherent reason for calling alisae scum?

"I think Alisae is pretty scummy too tbh." + some suggestion that alisae is chainsawing for norwee
"OMGUS"
"Charloux, Alisae, Marashu, Norwee varying degrees of scummy."
"Opportunism." (for voting him)
"Scummmmmmmmmm."
"How about you or your scumbuddy?"
"Aren't you supposed to be AFK?
*gives a thumbs down*
"The T3 flashwagon is so weird. I'd say it's +scum for Alisae but they are already rock bottom scummy along with Norwe, so."

Like, looking at this stuff...I don't get the sense kittytacky is actually trying to evaluate alisae's alignment at all, there's no case, no examination of posts, literally no substance to the read, he's just repeating alisae is scum ad nauseam without actually explaining why at any point. There's only so much you can fall back on "this is my playstyle" as a defense. Even less talkative players usually have some visible line of thought but I'm not really getting that at all with kittytacky, I can't tell where the scumread actually originated from and everything past that point has basically been accusing alisae of scum for pushing him. The stuff about T3 basically set off a flag for me because it's basically starting from the presumption alisae is scum and then painting everything they do as scummy. I'm just not seeing the substance here, at all.

[catboi]

pages leading up to the elim are basically useless to comment on

I still think norwee's response to mastina is more likely to be frustrated town more than aggro scum, but not impossible. Have to see how he resets after he doesn't have mastina deathtunneling him I guess