Mini 692: Boost Mafia (Game Over!)

[Guardian]

Oh and just to note: I might be V/LA from now until like Saturday due to Thanksgiving.

& Schoolwork.

The week after this is the busiest week for me all semester. The deadline makes it pretty much impossible for me to contribute meaningfully before tomorrow :|. I do not see how I will get the time to spend 3 hours on this game in the next week.

I think eldarad's analysis of me-incog is even more hard to believe and ill founded than TDC's read that at least one of us must be scum.

I realize that this is not at all what my play has been since replacing in, and that, ironically, Incog will jump all over this, but my gut is telling me Incog is not correct right now. He could be scum but, I am very worried about the me-incog focus that seems to be prevalent, and i think it is misguided.

unvote

I really have no idea who is correct to vote for. I think I'll go with my suspicion of Jahudo.

vote: Jahudo

I remarked that I saw him as hedging... I think it was from when he asked people's opinions about me-Incog before he expressed his own opinion.

I normally would ask for a deadline extension, but Elmo made it clear that isn't happening.

I also would consider asking for replacement since I cannot really contribute effectively the rest of this day, but I replaced in as trading favors with Elmo so that isn't fair either.

Relatives are over right now and I am stealing time. Don't expect me to be able to answer questions posed of me before deadline :\.

[iLord]

adsf

Obviously you would say that, but that "I'll drop the point because it isn't successful" statement along with the timing and manner of your unvote make me think otherwise.

You misunderstand - the point I dropped was the guilt one, but I'm dropping my attack agaisnt you because you haven't been reading scum.

Guardian's point, I believe, was that Incog posted after SL asked for replacement without voting her, and then he voted Guardain with nothing changing besides his replacing in.

Ah, right. How is that indicative of scum? Is Guardian saying that Incognito is afraid of him? It seems merely like a delayed vote, especially since there weren't any signs of a easy wagon of Guardian for proposed scumIncognito.

#452 does nothing to alleviate my concerns, and I share the view of RR and Incog that his "reads" are objective summaries rather than his own opinions.
If I had to summarise the whole of #452 in one word, I would use "contrived"

I've asked this multiple times already - if you think that my reads on contrived, then ask me! Ask me where you feel that I am making stuff up. I didn't put down all of my sentiments - those are merely my notes about notable areas. I can explain my reasoning if you specify.

The bit that, if anything, bothers me the most is how iLord unboosts someone he thinks is town in order to have the top two in his list as the ones he boosts.

What?

The pieces of the iLord-Guardian-Incog scumpuzzle begin to come together when you see that iLord has - in his characteristic devoid-of-actual-opinion way - listed one of his scumbuddies as "town" and the other one as "scum".
Gosh, he's as cunning as a fox who has just won the Nobel prize for Cunning.

How is that supporting your theory at all?

Accumulated towniness. And he was a 'safer' boost in my eyes that some of the more high profile posters.

Accumulated towniness? Can you point out where he has read town at all? I'm getting no such sentiments.

[Elmo]

Day 1, Vote Count #16 - Lynching

Huntress (3) <- Mana_Ku, sthar8, Electra
Incognito (2) <- Jahudo, Raging Rabbit
Jahudo (2) <- iLord, Guardian
iLord <- eldarad
Mana_Ku <- TDC
Guardian <- Incognito

Not voting: RandomGem, Huntress.

Boost Count

TDC (2) <- Incognito, sthar8
sthar8 (2) <- Guardian, iLord
Raging Rabbit (2) <- Jahudo, Mana_Ku
Guardian <- Raging Rabbit
eldarad <- TDC
Jahudo <- eldarad

Electra

will be boosted during twilight. You now have one boost-vote each. If you were voting for two other people (Guardian -> iLord, Mana_Ku -> Guardian), your oldest vote has been removed.

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch/boost. RandomGem has been prodded. Mana_ku's prod has not been picked up. The

deadline

is Thursday, 4th December 06:00 UTC, which is 7 days, 5 hours, and 43 minutes from this post.

I was completely oblivious to Thanksgiving when setting the deadline. If this is going to be a big deal for people, I would consider an extension; PM me if you'll have trouble posting, and how long for. I apologise for this oversight.

[Huntress]

Do you think she is ignoring other cases besides Crazy then? Do you think her observing is scumy or just anti-town?

Apart from one or two of her more recent posts she seems to be just responding to questions, not asking them. The observing is a possible scum-tell but I would have to do a meta on Electra before deciding if it's actually scummy for her or not.


From an individual read of iLord's posts I get a much more townie feel than I did from my initial read-through of the whole thread.

Mana_Ku, RandomGem and Huntress - we need this town way more active, and you've had enough time to catch up by now. Post, boost and vote asap, please.

I've been posting in case you hadn't noticed! I mentioned earlier who I would vote for at the moment if I really had to, but if you're desperate for me to vote I can always vote for you . I'm not going to boost anyone just yet.

[Electra]

The reason this is not a good scum gambit is this: I've been boosted, so what? It just means that people find me to be unlikely to be mafia today, it means nothing for the future. If people find evidence that leads them to believe I would be scum (for example, a cop investigates me because I drew attention to myself) or when it's massclaiming time, my role is out of place, I would die. Scum's optimal play is to stick around not to think of ways to kill more townies. In my opinion.

limited access/vacation until after the weekend, sorry

[Raging Rabbit]

I've been posting in case you hadn't noticed! I mentioned earlier who I would vote for at the moment if I really had to, but if you're desperate for me to vote I can always vote for you . I'm not going to boost anyone just yet.

You didn't say a whole lot, and aren't now either. I think everyone should commit themselves to an opinion today. Crazy didn't say a whole lot either for that matter, so your lack of input is all the more distressing. Biding your time before voting is close proximity of deadline when there isn't time to question anything you say seems like a very comfortable scum-tactic.

You misunderstand - the point I dropped was the guilt one, but I'm dropping my attack agaisnt you because you haven't been reading scum.

Wasn't the guilt one your original, most important point, from which I was trying to distract?

Ah, right. How is that indicative of scum? Is Guardian saying that Incognito is afraid of him? It seems merely like a delayed vote, especially since there weren't any signs of a easy wagon of Guardian for proposed scumIncognito.

Since Guardian is unable to answer right now, I'll explain to the best of my understanding - he claimed that Incog figured Guardian would continue SL's attack of him based on gut/Guardian's meta, and voted him as a "preemptive OMGUS". In other words the vote was only because of the replacement, which is scummy because it obviously has no bearing on alignment.


eldarad's Guardian-Incog link is very very unlikely imo. Don't get a lot of the points he raises there, for that matter.

[Incognito]

Yay for late (or early, depending on how you look at it) posting.

eldarad:

Your 474 just seems flat-out weird to me. I don't recall you mentioning any great level of suspicion of me at any point during this game until now -- you've gone to some lengths to characterize my playstyle as "similar to yours" and mentioned that my play so far "seems town but not safe enough to boost" (I'm guessing because of some supposed buddying that you

thought

could have been present)". But now in your 474, you bring forward a hypothesis that suggests that not only could Guardian and I potentially be scum buddies but iLord could also be a possible third? How do you factor in the fact that I've mentioned that I'd be perfectly fine with an iLord or Guardian lynch for quite some time now? It's also somewhat interesting that you've even used the word "contrived" to describe iLord's reads, which is exactly the same word I've used to describe both his most recent reads and his first set of reads that he produced during early-game.

Another thing I'm curious about is a few times now, you've mentioned that you feel like springlullaby's anger seemed feigned since you think she's been taking on a different persona when compared to her real life personality. Do you know springlullaby from outside of mafiascum or something? What have you been trying to get at there?

---

In other news, I'll be sending a PM to the mod to request a deadline extension.

[iLord]

asdfasdf

Wasn't the guilt one your original, most important point, from which I was trying to distract?

Yes.

Since Guardian is unable to answer right now, I'll explain to the best of my understanding - he claimed that Incog figured Guardian would continue SL's attack of him based on gut/Guardian's meta, and voted him as a "preemptive OMGUS". In other words the vote was only because of the replacement, which is scummy because it obviously has no bearing on alignment.

Yeah, I remember now - It's taken me a while to reconstruct my thought process here. At first, I thought that point was really weak because Incognito actually listed his reasoning. When Guardian explained his "preemptive OMGUS," I understood what Guardian was trying to push, but I found it weak because there's numerous other not antitown reasons for Incognito to have pushed it later - he could've forgotten, or thought over it some more. I understand that Guardian is known to be a good player, but I'm not seeing his meta/Incognito's gut as enough to justify this stretch for scumIncognito.

--------------------------------------------

Going to be out for today, so Jahudo case probably won't be up by tommorrow.

[Guardian]

hey. i will

try

and pop in and answer on the go questions, but the in depth reading I want to do seems very unlikely, and me being able to even pop in is catch as catch can. if I get a break from relatives and need a break in doing the papers I need to do I will try but no guarantees.

my rational about incog preemptively omgusing might be misguided. part of my reason for choosing him as my first target certainly could be omgus, even though it was my predecessor and not me he attacked.

i like to attack one player at a time and see how they respond and get a solid feel for them, but with the dealdine so soon that approach isn't timely, even if we get a week extension or something.

i pm'd asking for extension.

happy thanksgiving!

[Raging Rabbit]

Yes.

So you see why I think your unvote was mostly due to lack of popularity.


Strongly support the deadline extension.

[iLord]

So you see why I think your unvote was mostly due to lack of popularity.

I do see why you would think so. However, had I truly continued to think you were scum or just wanted to keep on pushing your case, I would've found and pushed other points, whether from the thread or from your answers to questions I posed.

I would support a deadline extension, but I really don't have any excuse...

[RandomGem]

Oh my gosh guys, sorry for flaking after replacing... I was quite busy.
Currently reading thread. Posts are longer than I would like (that doesn't mean they're bad, just longer than I would like), so it may take a while.
Deadline in less than a week now, so I might too late... ugh.
Happy Black Friday while I'm reading?

[RandomGem]

Hey, made it to page 14! That's where I replaced.... ahaha still 6 more pages to go.
And wow, this game is a lot to take in... <some emote that I won't bother to find>

[RandomGem]

Fuzzylightning looks scummy.

Now as to my theory on the effects of boosting, I think it will work where any one-time roles will get a free use on that night, and any other roles will get an extra use. As far as vanilla's, I think information would make sense, or maybe NK immunity for the one night, which could be good for an almost lylo situation. As far as speculation on what would happen for the mafia, it depends on when the boost goes into effect, because if it is immediate i could see an extra NK or the ability to RB.

I don't like set-up discussion about powers. If there are enough players who will discuss it, there's a possibility that some powers will be revealed.

To whoever it was that was saying Skillit is at L-2, right now it doesn't really matter because no one can be lynched until two players are boosted, so we should only be moderately concerned about a certain persons vote count right now.

I don't like this. You believed that Skilit was innocent. Your response to almost 'a lynch' is this. You don't even try to show us who you think is a good lynch as you are way too much focused on the boosts.
Also, I haven't seen any suspicions of him yet, except for SL, while she's replaced now. I have no idea what he thinks and I don't see anything helpful from him yet.

Interestingly enough, you seem to be attacking my predecessor as if he is still playing in the game... I can't account for him obviously, but I think I know his reasons for the first quote, and for the second quote, I agree with fuzzylightning since a lynch wouldn't have actually been a lynch, let alone L-2.

RandomGem seems really promising after his posts . You remind me of me. Shame on you .

Hehe... ^^"

@Mana_Ku, Huntress, and Random Gem:

How have you felt about this thread so far upon replacing in? Have you found it to be a difficult read?

How I've felt: AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
So yeah, I've found it to be quite the difficult read. The Incognito+springlullaby/Guardian thing was impossible to weed through, and I must admit that I couldn't really stand reading all of it intently, and ended up just skimming.

RandomGem (fuzzylightning): Claims unposted analysis. Scummy.

Um... I think I personally just claimed being busy. I didn't exactly have time to get to reading, let alone analysis... Oh BTW I'm from AoPS, which as you probably have gathered on your few games there... is a

bit

low on the analysis level. :/
---
Well, the main thing I've noticed while reading/skimming is the Incognito+springlullaby/Guardian argument. I believe there's too much arguing between them for it to be bussing (whoa, there's a leap), making either 0 or 1 of them scum. There was some point somewhere about iLord and Guardian being connected, and another point about iLord and Incognito being connected. I'm leaning more toward iLord and Guardian, since iLord has seen Incognito as scummy, and also somewhat instructed springlullaby on how to attack Incognito with better arguments. (If I'm unclear in this, I can look for the actual posts...) This in addition to the overly obvious fact that iLord and Guardian are voting to lynch and to boost the same person.
I also agree with Incognito's description of springlullaby's angry meta, and I am leaning towards his side, so

FoS: Guardian, iLord

.
Actually now that I think about it, iLord is acting considerably differently from some games in AoPS we've played (although the environment is much MUCH different there), since he would always push for a day 1 lynch on one or two main people as scum, leading the town. I won't completely believe that meta because over there, he was essentially the only strong player, whereas here, he can be on more equal ground.
---
As for boosts, I'm not quite sure. I should say that I think boosting me would be very, very advantageous to the town, but I don't think I've earned any town credits, and won't earn enough within one week, so... meh. :/

I'll try to reread this thread again. Gah.

[iLord]

Um... I think I personally just claimed being busy. I didn't exactly have time to get to reading, let alone analysis... Oh BTW I'm from AoPS, which as you probably have gathered on your few games there... is a bit low on the analysis level. :/

That little line was from FL.

You're from AOPS?

Actually now that I think about it, iLord is acting considerably differently from some games in AoPS we've played (although the environment is much MUCH different there), since he would always push for a day 1 lynch on one or two main people as scum, leading the town. I won't completely believe that meta because over there, he was essentially the only strong player, whereas here, he can be on more equal ground.

There were other good players, but since I was scum in both games, it was easy for me to just get a random mislynch Day 1.

[Raging Rabbit]

RG, that summary post says very little. Why didn't you anyone?

[Guardian]

Wait, randomgen finds iLord scummy because he isn't playing like he did in other games -- where iLord was scum???? Why is it suspicious to not play as you did when you were scum, RG?????

FOS: RandomGem

Very possibly to be followed by vote.

[Elmo]

Okay, deadline is suspended until people can be more active.

[RandomGem]

No, I found him scummy because of the connections with you (Guardian), but then doubled back on what I said, doubting myself because of the meta.
And yes, RR, I realize it says little :/

[Guardian]

Oh. Ok that makes sense.

Him having the same suspicions as me doesn't mean that both of us are elevated in scumminess. It does not benefit scum to attack the exact same people. Only if our reasons for being suspicious are not justified then we both are scummy, and then I'd like you to explain why that is so.

Otherwise we might just as plausibly be two townies who are reading the game in the same misled way, no?

[Guardian]

And RR -- you haven't even said (unless I missed it) why you disagree with your actions -- without saying that, why can't we be two townies who are reading the game in the same right way?

[Raging Rabbit]

I assume you meant RG.

[Huntress]

After doing individual reads on the following players, Elderad and Electra are my top suspects at the moment, Skillet/Manu_Ku I'm not sure about and iLord, Jahudo, sthar8, fuzzylightning/RandomGem and TDC are looking town-like so far. I still need to re-read Incognito, Raging Rabbit and Springlullaby/Guardian.

Elderad will probably be getting my vote (I'll have more to say about that later), unless it's one of the three I haven't finished looking at yet, and I'm still waiting for Electra's response to my comments in post 458.

As for a boost, TDC is looking most likely at the moment.

[Incognito]

I, too, agree that RandomGem's post says very little.

RandomGem, you pretty much only commented on the Guardian/springlullaby <-> me exchange. What are your thoughts on everyone else?

[Guardian]

And RR -- you haven't even said (unless I missed it) why you disagree with your actions -- without saying that, why can't we be two townies who are reading the game in the same right way?

And

RG

-- you haven't even said (unless I missed it) why you disagree with

our

actions -- without saying that, why can't we be two townies who are reading the game in the same right way?

Even if one of us is wrong, it is the reasons that matter not the conclusions.

I will still be emotionally unavailable for this game until Friday.