Mini 692: Boost Mafia (Game Over!)

[Xtoxm]

It's pretty bad.

[eldarad]

Am I just hallucinating or is the whole of 1339 really scummy?

Really? You think 1339 is scummy.
And you have no comment on 1340 or 1341 or or 1343 or 1344?

[Incognito]

It just seems like you're trying to coax Raging Rabbit into maintaining his vote on Xtoxm. Nowhere in that post do you even seem to consider who a hypo-Xtoxm-scum's buddy might be; instead you set

yourself

up as Xtoxm's buddy saying that RR's town read of GC is important and that he should keep his vote on Xtoxm because even if RR thinks the team is you/Xtoxm, he's better off lynching Xtoxm since I would never vote or vig Xtoxm even in LyLo? Wouldn't you know whether or not you're scum with Xtoxm? Why would a you-town agree to go along with such a strategy when it could potentially cost us the game? Just who exactly do you think is Xtoxm's buddy then?

As for the other posts following that, what's wrong with them exactly?

[Green Crayons]

Xtox has had shitty quarrels with RR, myself and Eld. Like, very-obviously-not-the-same-scum-group conversations. And not the scum trying out a distancing strategy type either. Incog has basically said that he thinks the ground Xtox walks on becomes town just from osmosis. Not something a scum group readily does (plus there's that whole vig thing).

If Xtox flips scum, his only partner would be TDC

.

I don't know why you people keep forgetting about him. He's still in this game!

Lynch TDC. Vig RR/me/Eld/Xtox (preferably not Eld - or me, for that matter). We will find ourselves in either a win or another probable LYLO situation.


Oh, and:

Will be in Florida from the fifth to the eighth. No access.

[TDC]

So you're saying that by escaping any sort of heat he hasn't been able to slide by without suspicion, thus making whatever town vibes he has been giving off (

which I fail to see

) unduly legitimate and an false sense of certainty?

Oh, really?

--Super-Town--
Electra

--Strong Town--
sthar
TDC

So what did you see back then?

This is still unanswered.

--

eldarad: I don't get your plan. Now that RR thinks GC is town (or does he?), do you think so, too? Because if you don't (and you did vote him previously, so you didn't), I don't see how it's a good idea to boost him at all. Worst case he gets a role block, we lynch town, he blocks Incognito and the game is over. Far too risky.

--

On the Xtoxm lynching: It's not possible unless either Incog or GC change their mind.
That said, if Xtoxm is scum, then I don't really see how he could EVER be lynched, because even if we lynch his partner today, he can just let Incog live and win like that..

--

Xtoxm: Is your wish to have me vigged unconditional of GC's alignment?

--

Xtox has had shitty quarrels with RR, myself and Eld. Like, very-obviously-not-the-same-scum-group conversations.

Mind to point out your "shitty quarrel" with him?

If Xtox flips scum, his only partner would be TDC.

Even if this was actually true, how can Xtoxm flip scum if he's not going to get lynched? I don't see you voting for him. (Nevermind that you've said you think he's town..)

Your reasons for voting me are getting more contrived by the minute (you've just added me being the only possible scum partner of someone you think is town), and you keep stalling on detailing your previous "reasons" (We still haven't seen where I was "active lurking", "not doing anything against a boost wagon" or how you put me into the "strong town" category but now claim to never have seen anything pro-town about me).

--

I doubt my vote will change today.

[Xtoxm]

Yes, but i'll keep an open mind.

[Incognito]

GC, just in case you missed this question also:

@Green Crayons:

Part of your TDC-suspicion was based on the fact that TDC didn't attempt to push the early TDC-boostwagon off of himself despite the fact that he's now claimed Vanilla. What do you make of eldarad's recent suggestions of pushing for the boosting of a Vanilla? Do you think this makes him look scummy?

[Raging Rabbit]

GC is feeling more and more town in his last few posts, TDC I've been getting a town read from all through the game, Incog pretty much has to be town because of all the extra NK's, and eldarad and Xtoxm I'm starting to doubt are scum together. So I'm getting really confused here. The only thing I'm positive of is that at least one of Xtoxm/ eld is scum.

[Green Crayons]

This is still unanswered.

So you said a few things early game that looked protown and were otherwise smart in that you didn't stick your neck out. Not hard to see that you can easily get lost in 20 some odd pages of 14 plus people (including replacements) bickering at one another.

Mind to point out your "shitty quarrel" with him?

Call my play bad if you want

Nice one fucktards. Go ahead, lynch me, I don't care. I guess I must be scum, because there's no way I could have known they were town otherwise.

...Yeah. Insulting the town, then enticing them to lynch you is a picture-perfect example of bad town play. Don't get your panties in a wad just because you responded to the situation poorly.

but you're the one who just lynched Ice

Are you suggesting I single-handedly produced the Ice-lynch, or that I was somehow a driving force behind it? Because I find neither conception an accurate description of my behavior in regards to Ice - his poor play (lying the the town, wanting to be lynched, not using his ability) made him a better candidate to lynch than Eld in a situation where it was lynch someone or there be a no lynch.

throwing away a confirmed town win

I don't see how Ice was apparently the be-all end-all ace in the hole for the town. It looks like you're over-reacting to his death (no surprise there, however, given your previous overly emotional responses). I think that regardless of who we lynch today, Incog's chance of killing scum (if boosted) is much more comforting than his previous record.

Try to get over your own crap joke, dickhead.

I'm not joking. I find your play to be incredibly self destructive and exceptionally unhelpful to any town. You're not supposed to make it incredibly difficult for fellow townies to not want to lynch you because you reek of anti-town behavior. Maybe you should grow some thick skin (this is the internet, after all), realize I'm not being a douche-bag just for the sake of it and actually improve your play style. Over-emotional explosive posts, insulting the town en masse, insulting other players singularly, begging the town to lynch you with the inference that it's because they're obviously inferior to your intellect and so you just can't stand to play in the game any more... Yeah. Wonderful town play right there.

I think that speaks for itself.

Even if this was actually true, how can Xtoxm flip scum if he's not going to get lynched? I don't see you voting for him. (Nevermind that you've said you think he's town..)

Incog and Eld were discussing potential scenarios if Xtox was actually scum. My using the term "flip scum" was simply going along with their hypothetical. Nice way to try to spin terminology way out of context.

Your reasons for voting me are getting more contrived by the minute (you've just added me being the only possible scum partner of someone you think is town)

What the hell are you talking about? Do you just not read the thread, thinking you can skim by with your scumminess somehow keeping you off the radar? I've stated in the past that I think the scum group boils down to two players out of RR/TDC/Xtox.

(We still haven't seen where I was "active lurking", "not doing anything against a boost wagon" or how you put me into the "strong town" category but now claim to never have seen anything pro-town about me)

1. I already pointed out examples. 2. You didn't attempt to dissuade a boost wagon that had some moderate support when that boost wouldn't help the town at all. 3. See above.

@Green Crayons:

Part of your TDC-suspicion was based on the fact that TDC didn't attempt to push the early TDC-boostwagon off of himself despite the fact that he's now claimed Vanilla. What do you make of eldarad's recent suggestions of pushing for the boosting of a Vanilla? Do you think this makes him look scummy?

It looks like you're trying to correlate these two positions, but they aren't the same because (yet again) you take things out of context. In the early stages of a game, trying to boost an unknown instead of a townie contains more risk (might boost scum) but a better payoff (might boost good town role). In the early stages of a game, if we boost incorrectly by chosing to trust a scumbag, there is plenty of time to make up for the mistake. Now, we are in a potential LYLO situation. A mistake in boosting someone could very well end the game in a loss. Now, the more prudent choice of action would be to boost an established town (or someone we decide on lynching) because we can't afford to be exposed to the risk of an incorrect boost.

Context, Incog. It's everything. I don't know why you keep ignoring it.

[Incognito]

Huh?

Okay, so you've basically stated the following:

• Boosting scum early -> Plenty of time to make up for mistake = Bad but not that bad for town.
  
• Boosting scum now in LyLo -> Could end up losing us the game = Terrible thing for town.

This is precisely my point though. eldarad has stated not once but a couple of times now that he'd like for us to boost a claimed vanilla at

this stage of the game

(LyLo). You had beef with TDC because he never tried to push away an

early

Boost-wagon on himself, a claimed Vanilla, because you feel that a Vanilla should never feel like he should receive something when boosted. According to your own statement which I've now summarized in bullet points, this would mean that yeah, you could theoretically find TDC scummy for not pushing away an early boostwagon on himself but you

should

find eldarad

scummier

for suggesting that a Vanilla should be boosted in a Lylo situation because of bullet point 2. Why is that not the case?

[Green Crayons]

Okay, first of all you have to understand the difference in those two bullet points is the town's ability to handle the risk in each situation. Otherwise, yes, I think that sums up my position.

But then you get all whompy with your logic. Here is what my position is. TDC is scummy for not pushing the boost wagon away from a townie when the town could handle the risk of an unknown boost (early on). Eld is not scummy for pushing the boost wagon to a townie when the town can't handle the risk (late game).

Here it is, in easy bullet format:

• ·
  TDC is scummy for wanting the town to not take risks when the town should take risks.
  
  ·
  Eld is not scummy for wanting the town to not take risks when the town should not take risks.

And of course TDC is scummy for the town to not take risks when it should because he isn't town and is scum and thus would want to be boosted.

[Green Crayons]

Here it is, in easy bullet format:

• ·
  TDC is scummy for wanting the town to not take risks when the town should take risks.
  
  ·
  Eld is not scummy for wanting the town to not take risks when the town should not take risks.

To distill the above even further:

• ·
  TDC = bad --> wants negative action in positive environment (bad logic because benefits himself as scum)
  
  ·
  Eld = good --> wants negative action in negative environment (good logic because protects town)

I'm not trying to be a smartass here, so don't take this the wrong way. I just know I have a tendency of being long winded or overly convoluted, so I'm trying to simplify my reasoning into bite-sized pieces if you will.

[Raging Rabbit]

This case on TDC is really not convincing. The only reason I'm starting to consider him being scum is process of elimination, and even then there's still the matter of his behavior giving me a strong town vibe and being totally consistant with Cop Central.

I'll be away 'till Saturday evening.

[eldarad]

Incog, GC is not a claimed vanilla.

[Incognito]

I know. I was talking about how

you

claimed Vanilla and have spent portions of today calling for the Boost of one of the claimed Vanillas for one reason or another. I'd have expected Green Crayons to give you some flak for this because he gave flak to TDC for something similar according to what he mentioned here:

If

TDC is a townie then he would have received a PM similar to this:

You are an inhabitant of the town.

You win when all anti-town roles are eliminated.

TDC hasn't indicated that his PM contained any hints as to a boost ability. He would have had no reason to believe that he would have given a boost ability if he was actually a vanilla. In fact, since he claimed vanilla, he should have assumed that he was

vanilla

. Nothing special happens to vanillas. Ever. To assume that maybe his vanilla role would somehow become non-existent with a boost is to assume he wasn't vanilla. Why would he have assumed his role could easily become the antithesis of his role? It doesn't make sense, even with Electra's information not known. The logical assumption with a vanilla role is to assume you're a vanilla role.

But Green Crayons has done nothing of the sort and has spent a good portion of today vouching for your towniness.

Raging Rabbit, what is it about Green Crayons's recent posts that make you think he's town?

[Incognito]

And

(just to expand on that further) since Green Crayons has effectively said that he believes boosts are more dangerous at this point of the game since this is LyLo, I'd have expected him to be even

more

fuming about your recent suggestions of boosting a Vanilla than he ever would or could have been about TDC's lack of pushing away the early Boost-wagon on himself. Again, GC has done no such thing.

Apparently I'm the only one who sees this contradiction.

[Green Crayons]

And (just to expand on that further) since Green Crayons has effectively said that he believes boosts are more dangerous at this point of the game since this is LyLo, I'd have expected him to be even more fuming about your recent suggestions of boosting a Vanilla than he ever would or could have been about TDC's lack of pushing away the early Boost-wagon on himself

...



Are you just not reading my posts?

Boosting a vanilla now is a good thing because it we can't take the risk of boosting a non-townie in the potential end game we find ourselves.

Therefore, Eld's suggestion of boosting a town now is

not suspicious

. In fact, it's the prudent, reasonable, logical, townie thing to do. Jeeze, how many times do I have to repeat myself and why are you suddenly becoming bereft of logical thought? It's unbecoming of your previously established character as a rational human being.

[Green Crayons]

Oh, and:

Will be in Florida from the fifth to the eighth. No access.

And now I"m out. I'll be checking back in Monday.

[Patrick]

Bumping above locked threads. Deadline hits in a week.

[eldarad]

/post
I realise people are away at the moment. I don't have any such excuse...

Really, really dislike this vote for obvious reasons. I wish I was a dayvig right about now. Who do you think is Xtoxm's most likely buddy?

I can see Xtoxm as scum with anyone...which was part of my hesitation over lynching him Today - his lynch won't give us any steer on who his scumbuddy is. But if we ever want to lynch Xtoxm, it has to be Today.
I can also see a Xtoxm-Incog scumteam, by the way.

As for the other posts following that, what's wrong with them exactly?
I'm not asking if anything is wrong with them. I'm asking whether you have any comment on those posts? (posts 1340 or 1341 or or 1343 or 1344?)

Incog has basically said that he thinks the ground Xtox walks on becomes town just from osmosis. Not something a scum group readily does (plus there's that whole vig thing).

Yeah, I see that. But I also see that Incog has been pretty much cleared by most of the townies in the game, and so in that context Incog-scum could gamble that it's worth the risk.
Incog, can you confirm that you would hammer Xtoxm at deadline if not doing so would cause a no-lynch?

Also, Incog's fear of the existence of a roleblocker Today is inconsistent with his post Yesterday where he effectively justified his vigging of Huntress in advance (in #1164).
The irony is, I was fairly happy with the 'lynch whoever we boost' plan until I thought about it a bit more...and I saw how eager Incog was to deny the town a boost.

[eldarad]

Oops, missed quote tags in the second paragraph. It should read:

As for the other posts following that, what's wrong with them exactly?

I'm not asking if anything is wrong with them. I'm asking whether you have any comment on those posts? (posts 1340 or 1341 or or 1343 or 1344?)

[Xtoxm]

Ok, I can live with you vigging him.

[Incognito]

Green Crayons, I'm reading your posts. "Boosting a vanilla now is not suspicious because we can't afford to boost a non-townie in potential end-game." We've got three people who've claimed Vanilla though and even if we looked at this from a hypo-you-town perspective and we assume a three scum set-up, this would mean that at least one of the three vanilla claimants (eldarad, RR, and TDC) is scum. I can do bold too:

According to you, you found it suspicious that TDC would expect something upon being boosted because Vanillas shouldn't expect to receive anything from a boost -- they're vanilla. If we're going by the information that Electra gave us in that it's LIKELY that the Vanillas won't gain anything upon being boosted (these are your own WORDS after all), why would it NOT be suspicious for eldarad to suggest that we should STILL boost one of the Vanillas now when one of those Vanillas could be scum and could possibly gain something upon being boosted?

-~- Vanillas: Likely don't receive anything upon being boosted.
-~- At least 1 of the 3 Vanilla claimants (from a hypo-town-you perspective) is likely scum.

If Vanillas don't gain anything from being boosted and if 1 of the 3 Vanilla claimants is likely scum, then it makes logical sense for us to NOT boost one of the Vanillas -- if the person we choose to boost is town, HE WON'T GAIN ANYTHING ANYWAY. If the person we choose to boost is scum, he MIGHT gain something and that's not worth the risk. Suggesting that we should boost one of these people who won't gain anything upon being boosted as town anyway but could POSSIBLY gain something as scum upon being boosted is scummy! How do you NOT see this?

---

eldarad, why are you asking me if I would hammer Xtoxm at deadline when it's

Green Crayons

who is currently at L-1? Would

you

hammer him if we got close to deadline? I think you missed a few questions from TDC also.

To respond to your question though, yes, I'd obviously hammer Xtoxm to prevent a No Lynch. Xtoxm is town though so lynching him is just plain old stupid.

Also, the comparison you've made now about me having fear of a Roleblocker today and not showing that same level of fear yesterday is like comparing apples to oranges. If I was roleblocked yesterday, we wouldn't be in potential LyLo today -- we'd have 7 players alive right now with 2 of them likely being scum. If we mislynch today, the town is pretty much depending on me to vig correctly tonight to still have a fighting chance. Are you seriously trying to paint this fear I have today as scummy?

GC and eldarad are almost certainly our remaining scum.

[Xtoxm]

That's completely stupid, Incog. There's no point in hammering me. You know i'm town, AND have 2 votes. Keeping me around is worth more than preventing NL.

[Incognito]

Oh true. I forgot about your second vote. Well we need someone to boost-hammer Green Crayons anyway if he's going to be today's lynch.

Raging Rabbit, are you back yet? What do you think about the current situation?