Mini 760 - Bleach Mafia: Karakura Town - Game Over!

[Green Crayons]

Please expand on this because it's making me HIGHLY suspicious of you. ... wordswordswords

Rules for Finding Mafia
1. Congratulate the doctor on successful protection: Is scum or doctor (+20, +10)

You definately pulled the classic "Look, I'm mafia trying to look like a town!" or the less classic "Look, I'm doc trying to not be subtle about me being the doc!" Either way, players don't congratulate the doctor anymore. It puts a big fat target on their head (by the town if they're scum; by scum if they're the doctor). So, congrats, you just exposed yourself for one or the other.

ZEE: "I think Green Crayons has come down with a bad case of tunneling.

Yes because I haven't criticized anyone else in this game, and most certainly not Albert. Not to mention, I am looking to incite DOS' insight because I actually want to hear it. Because I think it would be useful. Think of it as constructive criticism rather than suspicious criticism.

I swear, in this game, all the scum are the annoying players.

Who are the annoying scum?

Green Crayons, did you suspect I was an alt before the game went into night, or was that some revelation you just had today?

I toyed with the idea when you first posted.

What in particular would you like me to elaborate on, if anything?

Your Albert vote. Your me FOS. If we could be scum together. Your thoughts on ZEE's Gorrad suspicions. Your thoughts on my Seraphim's suspicions. Who you think would round out a three person mafia (assuming Albert and myself are you first two suspects).

What exactly was the purpose of your post ... At a glance you appear to be trying to ask me to explain things more often, but I am catching the ulterior motive of trying to probe into how experienced a player I am without asking me up front.

At a glance you got it right. I was just basically typing what I was thinking, and ended up with the notion that regardless of your alt or alignment status, I want you to speak up more (in frequency and quantity per post) so that it helps me with hearing good town points or determining you're scum.

Also, since you didn't deny you are an Alt, I have already made assumptions as to who you actually are - which includes experience. Regardless if I'm right about my assumptions, I have already pinned "experience" to your character (seriously, who else makes Alt accounts except people who have played enough games that they don't want to be instantly recognized?). Attempting to discern how much experience beyond that would be pointless, regardless of what alignment I am.

As scum, who do you generally choose to nightkill? Do you like to kill players like me?

Talk about an incredibly loaded question, and one that I would be happy to answer if this was a thread in Mafia Discussion. Let's just say I would put enough thought into it so that I wouldn't attempt to kill potential doc targets.

[OhGodMyLife]

Vote Count:

6 to lynch

Albert B. Rampage: 2 (ZEEnon, GLaDOS)
ZEEnon: 2 (Korlash, Albert B. Rampage)

Not Voting: 7 (Seraphim, Gorrad, Green Crayons, Giuseppe, PhilyEc, Xtoxm, Jebus)

[GLaDOS]

... Processing ...

You definately pulled the classic "Look, I'm mafia trying to look like a town!" or the less classic "Look, I'm doc trying to not be subtle about me being the doc!" Either way, players don't congratulate the doctor anymore. It puts a big fat target on their head (by the town if they're scum; by scum if they're the doctor). So, congrats, you just exposed yourself for one or the other.

False dilemma. I suggest that ZEEnon neither confirm nor deny whether he is a Doctor.

Your Albert vote. Your me FOS. If we could be scum together. Your thoughts on ZEE's Gorrad suspicions. Your thoughts on my Seraphim's suspicions. Who you think would round out a three person mafia (assuming Albert and myself are you first two suspects).

That's a tall milkshake you're ordering.

At the very least, I just explained the main gist of my Albert vote, and my reasons for FoSing you stem largely from yesterday. Yes, I do think you and Albert could be scum together, and I made a note for myself to that same effect in Post 120 when the thought first occurred to me. (

CRAB-G

meaning GC + ABR, of course).

As for your other areas for which you would like elaboration, I will try to look over the game again with those in mind, but I do not have the time to do so right now.

Why in particular are you interested in a three person mafia group? Why in particular would you even want somebody to post a full list of three mafia on Day Two of the game with no dead members of a mafia?

[Green Crayons]

Why in particular are you interested in a three person mafia group?

Because that's the usual ratio in a 12 person game. Why are you pretending that a 3 scum group is an absurd assumption when we're talking about townie speculation? Three is where one should start off and then shift the assumption around as the game dictates.

Why in particular would you even want somebody to post a full list of three mafia on Day Two of the game with no dead members of a mafia?

Because the only thing that a

dead

confirmed townie can do to help us is to memoralize their thoughts/suspicions in their posts. It's usually better to put this useful information in posts prior to death - yes, even from Day Two. Also, to a lesser extent, it's interesting to see who that player named if they turn up dead scum.


I saw Xtox lurking about the forums earlier. I want his imput, namely in response to my questions but I'll settle with anything useful for starters.
I also want to know what Seraphim thinks of everything.

[ZEEnon]

Rules for Finding Mafia
1. Congratulate the doctor on successful protection: Is scum or doctor (+20, +10)

You definately pulled the classic "Look, I'm mafia trying to look like a town!" or the less classic "Look, I'm doc trying to not be subtle about me being the doc!" Either way, players don't congratulate the doctor anymore. It puts a big fat target on their head (by the town if they're scum; by scum if they're the doctor). So, congrats, you just exposed yourself for one or the other.

I don't care what YOU or anybody else say players don't do,
I do what I want to do and that is

final

. Understood? Good. Continuing on..
Why are you role fishing? PERHAPS i'm NOT the doctor, but i'm just congratulating the doctor.
Are you saying that is not acceptable town behavior?

Let's just say I would put enough thought into it so that I wouldn't attempt to kill potential doc targets.

This somehow makes it seem like you know that GLaDOS was last night's target.

---

Also, since there was a serial killer, it is more likely that there is only two mafia, but i'm not sure.

[Seraphim]

Alright. Day 2, dead SK, no NKs. We got lucky. Time to start hunting scum.

AWESOME! 'doctor' save! (most likely, no idea why mafia would NK)

I don't like this WIFOM at all. I just finished a newbie game where the scum no-killed on D1, setting up a doctor claim later in the game. If the cop hadn't gotten a guilty on that night, we would've been in a lot of shit. Remember, assume makes an ass out of 'u' and me.

Here's the newbie game I was talking about. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... c&&start=0

well the doctor now knows a (potential) clear, which is good.

Look out for Mafia fake-claiming doctors who might clear their buddies later. Once again, DO NOT ASSUME THERE IS A DOCTOR. Not to mention that cheering the doctor on is a scumtell if I recall correctly. Just be happy there aren't any dead townies this morning.

also, it is HIGHLY likely, (assuming we have three mafia)
that two mafia were on zwetschenwasser's bandwagon.
my reasoning for this? because i doubt that the mafia could have known the serial killer,
so they probably thought a regular town-aligned player was getting lynched.

Assume makes an ass out of you and me.

i still suspect Albert B. Rampage of being a mafia member. i can also see Seraphim being scum as well.

Why?

first of all, i don't see how Albert B. Rampage seems pro-town.

More content please.

So you are saying that I am not allowed to congratulate the doctor on their correct prediction?
So you are saying that it is a BAD thing that nobody was killed?
So you are saying that you would rather see somebody DEAD?
So you are saying that when nobody is killed, that it can't possibly be a doctor save?

1. HOW DO YOU KNOW IT WAS A DOCTOR GRAGH?!
2. No, he's saying it's a scumtell.
3. Yes, you.
4. It can possibly be but your congrats sounds like it's definitely a doctor save.

I want to see more of ZEEnon before I vote him, however. He lurked out most of day 1 so I don't have a read on him.

ABR still is useless which is disturbing.

Look, I don't really give a damn about these stupid questions. We're trying to scumhunt here.

What the hell? Scumhunt by interrogation is what he's trying to do. What is your preferred method, echoing other people's cases?

ZEEnon's single scumtell is disturbing but not as disturbing as ABR's incredibly poor play.

Vote: Albert B. Rampage

[Gorrad]

Please expand on this because it's making me HIGHLY suspicious of you. ... wordswordswords

Rules for Finding Mafia
1. Congratulate the doctor on successful protection: Is scum or doctor (+20, +10)

You definately pulled the classic "Look, I'm mafia trying to look like a town!" or the less classic "Look, I'm doc trying to not be subtle about me being the doc!" Either way, players don't congratulate the doctor anymore. It puts a big fat target on their head (by the town if they're scum; by scum if they're the doctor). So, congrats, you just exposed yourself for one or the other.

I fully support this, and for this reason I:

Vote: ZEEnon
FoS: Seraphim

[Green Crayons]

Gorrad, why the FOS on Seraphim?
Gorrad, since you blindly agree with the wiki's dichotomy, why are you more certain that ZEE is scum instead of the doctor?

[PhilyEc]

You definately pulled the classic "Look, I'm mafia trying to look like a town!" or the less classic "Look, I'm doc trying to not be subtle about me being the doc!" Either way, players don't congratulate the doctor anymore. It puts a big fat target on their head (by the town if they're scum; by scum if they're the doctor). So, congrats, you just exposed yourself for one or the other.

Extreme WIFOMing, closing other options. Take into account that ZEEnon's been inactive for the first day and was then eager to make up for that. Hes most likely town in my opinion, just tried to look it too much in the beginning unfortunately.

I fully support this, and for this reason I:
Vote: ZEEnon
FoS: Seraphim

I wonderful example of leeching, its scummy but not vote worthy. I'm currently considering a Korlash/Gorrad buddiness at the moment if anyones curious. Its worth consideration at least though at the moment its just a hunch. I'll be rereading to see if this is the case.

[Gorrad]

First of all, I'm not blindly following OR leeching. I've seen scum do this first-hand, Random Mafia 3, where I led the attack on UROE D1. A case that started as him commenting on night kills.

Seraphim had "Alright. Day 2, dead SK, no NKs. We got lucky. Time to start hunting scum." Which is worthy of an FoS for the same reason as ZEE's worthy of a vote, but not at the same scale.

I don't follow the idea of it being one or the other. I follow it being a scumtell. I suppose it COULD be because ZEE's the doc, but I've never seen that first-hand, and I have seen it as a very solid scumtell.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote, vote Seraphim

Thanks for catching that Gorrad. Maybe Zeenon is the doc so I rather vote for Seraph.

[PhilyEc]

First of all, I'm not blindly following OR leeching. I've seen scum do this first-hand, Random Mafia 3, where I led the attack on UROE D1. A case that started as him commenting on night kills.

I see this as trying to link 'blindly following' (poor town play) to MY accusation of 'leeching' (scummy). Where are you going with the meta though? You saw what I accused you of being done by scum?

---

Albert, starting to feel town vibes off you strangely enough...I dont think you deserve those votes either. Zeenon, Glados, do your positions on Albert still stand? Anyone else you're seeing as scummy? I could very well be missing out on something here.

[Seraphim]

First of all, I'm not blindly following OR leeching. I've seen scum do this first-hand, Random Mafia 3, where I led the attack on UROE D1. A case that started as him commenting on night kills.

I see this as trying to link 'blindly following' (poor town play) to MY accusation of 'leeching' (scummy). Where are you going with the meta though? You saw what I accused you of being done by scum?

---

Albert, starting to feel town vibes off you strangely enough...I dont think you deserve those votes either. Zeenon, Glados, do your positions on Albert still stand? Anyone else you're seeing as scummy? I could very well be missing out on something here.

Where did these town vibes kick in? The minute he stopped attacking you?

I'm calling either Phily being scum and buddying to ABR now that he's not under fire or ABR being scum.

Thanks for catching that Gorrad. Maybe Zeenon is the doc so I rather vote for Seraph.

What makes ZEEnon more the doc than myself? What makes him the doc? What makes me scum? What makes me not the doc? This does not feel like town-ABR at all.

[Albert B. Rampage]

You didn't mention anything about the doctor, you just said town got lucky.

[Seraphim]

Because automatically assuming doctor is what nearly lost us the game in the Newbie Game I linked. I'm not going to worry about this no-kill until someone claims doctor and then we can talk about it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

And that's why you're not likely to be the doctor, Seraphim.

[Seraphim]

And that's why you're not likely to be the doctor, Seraphim.

But does it make me more likely to be scum?

[Albert B. Rampage]

That you would comment on the night actions at all is very likely to make you scum.

[Seraphim]

Touche. ZEEnon, IMO, is more likely to be scum.

[Green Crayons]

Extreme WIFOMing, closing other options. Take into account that ZEEnon's been inactive for the first day and was then eager to make up for that. Hes most likely town in my opinion, just tried to look it too much in the beginning unfortunately.

I'm not of the opinion that ZEE is scum, so congrats on trying to convince me that he's town. Beat you to it.

First of all, I'm not blindly following OR leeching. I've seen scum do this first-hand, Random Mafia 3, where I led the attack on UROE D1. A case that started as him commenting on night kills.

...

I don't follow the idea of it being one or the other. I follow it being a scumtell. I suppose it COULD be because ZEE's the doc, but I've never seen that first-hand, and I have seen it as a very solid scumtell.

Did you read your quotation that you cited? In order to support your vote you cite my quotation of the Wiki. The wiki article, which is based off of anecdotal evidence from Jeep. That anecdotal evidence shows that people who perform this tell are usually scum or the doctor. But, you're only willing to use that anecdotal evidence to say that ZEE is scum (because that's all you've seen), instead of acknowledging that Jeep also says that doctors have a bad habit of performing this tell. So, you're right. You

aren't

blindly following. You're cherry picking to give an excuse for someone who has the potential to be the doctor. Scummy, much?

Seraphim had "Alright. Day 2, dead SK, no NKs. We got lucky. Time to start hunting scum." Which is worthy of an FoS for the same reason as ZEE's worthy of a vote, but not at the same scale.

I agree.

Touche. ZEEnon, IMO, is more likely to be scum.

So you admit that you're scummy, just that you think ZEE is more scummy than you? Excellent defense. Added on with my Day One complaints, I'm going to

Vote: Seraphim

.

Xtox

: What do you think of Albert's play?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Look, I don't like my play either. Can we just get on with it.

[Green Crayons]

Just because your name is mentioned doesn't mean that someone's necessarily talking about you. Sheish, get over yourself.

[Jebus]

Hello, checking in, I replaced LHNM, and am currently catching up (page 5~ at the moment)

In the meantime,

:3

[ZEEnon]

i can also see Seraphim being scum as well.

Why?

The way you post, to me, seems like you are someone

outside

of the town looking inwards.

So you are saying that I am not allowed to congratulate the doctor on their correct prediction?
So you are saying that it is a BAD thing that nobody was killed?
So you are saying that you would rather see somebody DEAD?
So you are saying that when nobody is killed, that it can't possibly be a doctor save?

1. HOW DO YOU KNOW IT WAS A DOCTOR GRAGH?!
2. No, he's saying it's a scumtell.
3. Yes, you.
4. It can possibly be but your congrats sounds like it's definitely a doctor save.

You say that congratulating the doctor is a definite scum sign?
Well I say that answering other people's questions for them is a scum sign.
Have you ever stopped to think that, oh I don't know.. not everyone thinks the same way you do, perhaps?
Also, for your answer to number two, you are saying that when nobody is killed, it's a scumtell?
Your reply to question three isn't buying you more town-points either, if that's what you are going for.

I fully support this, and for this reason I:

Vote: ZEEnon
FoS: Seraphim

*sigh* Since it seems that in this game we are going to
vote people solely using the wikipedia definition of scum, I am obliged to do this:

FOS: Gorrad

Scum naturally like to hop on a growing bandwagon early on, while at the same time FOSing their partner.
I can see a connection between these two. This is the second pairing i've put Gorrad with,
so don't be surprised if my vote suddenly hops on to him.

Gorrad, why the FOS on Seraphim?
Gorrad, since you blindly agree with the wiki's dichotomy, why are you more certain that ZEE is scum instead of the doctor?

&& YOU. How do you know that i'm either of the above?

Zeenon, Glados, do your positions on Albert still stand? Anyone else you're seeing as scummy? I could very well be missing out on something here.

I can still see Albert B. Rampage as scum, but I checked out his meta, and I don't see varying differences.
Therefore the ones highest on my scumdar, in order, are:

1. Seraphim
2. Gorrad
&& the obligatory suspicion,
3. Albert B. Rampage


Since Seraphim is number one in my suspicion list, it would only be hypocritical of me not to vote for him instead.

Unvote. Vote: Seraphim .

[Gorrad]

First of all, I'm not blindly following OR leeching. I've seen scum do this first-hand, Random Mafia 3, where I led the attack on UROE D1. A case that started as him commenting on night kills.

I see this as trying to link 'blindly following' (poor town play) to MY accusation of 'leeching' (scummy). Where are you going with the meta though? You saw what I accused you of being done by scum?

No. In that game I led an attack on scum for commenting on night kills. I'm not blindly following or leeching, I'm making a play based on a scumtell I've seen and acted on before before.

First of all, I'm not blindly following OR leeching. I've seen scum do this first-hand, Random Mafia 3, where I led the attack on UROE D1. A case that started as him commenting on night kills.

...

I don't follow the idea of it being one or the other. I follow it being a scumtell. I suppose it COULD be because ZEE's the doc, but I've never seen that first-hand, and I have seen it as a very solid scumtell.

Did you read your quotation that you cited? In order to support your vote you cite my quotation of the Wiki. The wiki article, which is based off of anecdotal evidence from Jeep. That anecdotal evidence shows that people who perform this tell are usually scum or the doctor. But, you're only willing to use that anecdotal evidence to say that ZEE is scum (because that's all you've seen), instead of acknowledging that Jeep also says that doctors have a bad habit of performing this tell. So, you're right. You

aren't

blindly following. You're cherry picking to give an excuse for someone who has the potential to be the doctor. Scummy, much?

Aye, I didn't read the quote thoroughly enough. I saw someone jumping on ZEE for a scumtell that I personally put great weight in, and I quoted without fully realizing what I was quoting. In my next post, I clarify my stand. Happy? Schön?