Freelancer Mafia - Game Over!

[bionicchop2]

Lets see... I called Arm as scum... when? In my first body? Fuck yeah, that so makes up for not winning!

One of you won!

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm still somewhat pissed you lied to everyone and didn't actually give the scum the freelancer WC ever.

Eh, by the time I said that, the Freelancer WC had been stated in the thread so many times it didn't matter, and I didn't feel like actually sending it to everyone. I just said that to keep the game from being broken by a really stupid metagame.

[Korlash]

One of you won!

Naw... I only track each game once, so whenever I replace back into one I ignore my first persona. *sigh*

[mneme]

I won twice!

Apologies for "outing" us, BM -- though I think it was a tradeoff; easier coordination vs having the scum know whom to kill. But from the hot seat, I can see why you weren't pleased; after all, we were pretty much in control of the town at that point, so there wasn't much need to reveal info as long as we had both leaders and weren't at risk of losing info.

[mneme]

Mod Reactions:

I think in retrospect the criminal factions were underpowered.

I think they were too. I was kinda expecting the criminal factions to recruit faster than the town ones, though I do think that 1 mission is too much. If one were doing a closed setup, 2 might be right, (and give the criminals cookies to bribe people with--"if you succed, you'll be immune to one lynch/one kill/get a gun (oneshot kill), etc; that way, there's more of a reason for people to take "hey, dude wanna kill someone for the crims?" recruits. For an open setup, a fixed number offers too much gaming the system (though the criminals could have a "strongarm" job that recruited someone who was at n-1 jobs), but you could have each job have a percentage of recruiting that averaged to people being recruited on a certain day -- if you want people recruited into the criminals on day 2, have, say, a 30% chance of recruit each night people accept a job from them. For a 3 day recruit (on average), you want 20% per night.

I hadn't expected the Kishiro/Samura situation to implode Day 1 and end up with 2 killing factions eliminated right away, so that made it harder for the scum, as there were only 1-2 kills a night instead of 3 or 4.

Could have been worse. If only one of Kishiro/Samura had been killed off, we'd have had another protown faction helping out.

I'm also unconvinced that it was the correct decision to make the Freelancer Win Condition be to eliminate criminals instead of making them essentially survivors.

I agree. I started out in the survivor mindset, which vanished as I reread my description and I realized I was essentially a recruitable townie.

If freelancers have an easy win condition to start with (eg, kill scum), they're not going to jeapordize this by becoming scum, with a much harder condition (taking 'protown' jobs, sure, it makes their base condition easier, mostly).

There -is- the issue that the starting freelancers don't have much of an incentive to -do- much of anything; why should they scumhunt when they can win just as easily as scum as town? Goal: "Be alive (or recruited into a group with easier conditions) at endgame" might help this, though.

I also didn't like having to make the Liberty Navy win condition simply to eliminate criminals, but I couldn't think of a secondary condition to add to their WC.

I don't have a problem with it; it's kinda nice to have a universally good group in the game. That said, I could see making LN special by not letting them recruit (so LN jobs help the town but don't grow the faction) or something.

Thanks for running the game; it was fun!

[The Fonz]

So I was killed by scum?

Man, that's a relief. I was convinced i'd been too forward in trying to stop chenhsi being doc-protected, and given him some indication that i was his rival. I shoulda just shut up and nightkilled him as soon as he gave himself away.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Mod Reactions:

I think in retrospect the criminal factions were underpowered.

I think they were too. I was kinda expecting the criminal factions to recruit faster than the town ones, though I do think that 1 mission is too much. If one were doing a closed setup, 2 might be right, (and give the criminals cookies to bribe people with--"if you succed, you'll be immune to one lynch/one kill/get a gun (oneshot kill), etc; that way, there's more of a reason for people to take "hey, dude wanna kill someone for the crims?" recruits. For an open setup, a fixed number offers too much gaming the system (though the criminals could have a "strongarm" job that recruited someone who was at n-1 jobs), but you could have each job have a percentage of recruiting that averaged to people being recruited on a certain day -- if you want people recruited into the criminals on day 2, have, say, a 30% chance of recruit each night people accept a job from them. For a 3 day recruit (on average), you want 20% per night.

Yea, if I ever run it again, something like that might happen.

I hadn't expected the Kishiro/Samura situation to implode Day 1 and end up with 2 killing factions eliminated right away, so that made it harder for the scum, as there were only 1-2 kills a night instead of 3 or 4.

Could have been worse. If only one of Kishiro/Samura had been killed off, we'd have had another protown faction helping out.

Vigs are double-edged swords, and the surviving faction would not have known the other faction was killed off, so they would have still been hunting for their opponents.

I'm also unconvinced that it was the correct decision to make the Freelancer Win Condition be to eliminate criminals instead of making them essentially survivors.

I agree. I started out in the survivor mindset, which vanished as I reread my description and I realized I was essentially a recruitable townie.

If freelancers have an easy win condition to start with (eg, kill scum), they're not going to jeapordize this by becoming scum, with a much harder condition (taking 'protown' jobs, sure, it makes their base condition easier, mostly).

There -is- the issue that the starting freelancers don't have much of an incentive to -do- much of anything; why should they scumhunt when they can win just as easily as scum as town? Goal: "Be alive (or recruited into a group with easier conditions) at endgame" might help this, though.

Yea, that might work. There are still issues with freelancers voting just about anyone because they are purely self-interested, though. However, it makes it easier for the scum to hide, which could be interesting.

I also didn't like having to make the Liberty Navy win condition simply to eliminate criminals, but I couldn't think of a secondary condition to add to their WC.

I don't have a problem with it; it's kinda nice to have a universally good group in the game. That said, I could see making LN special by not letting them recruit (so LN jobs help the town but don't grow the faction) or something.

Yea, that might work.

Thanks for running the game; it was fun!

Thanks!

[killa seven]

good game, thanks for having me twice

[springlullaby]

Thought it was fun, the game doesn't really work balance wise. The main problem, as previously said, was the freelancer wincon which made red recruitment near impossible. I'm almost disappointed BMM wasn't a scum cult faction, overpowered victory feels a little hollow.

And I don't think the win ranking system works either. Liberty and Daumann so not deserve any glory, and freelancer winning after their death seems antithetic as well.

Armlx played an ok game as scum.

Zoneace has disgusting formatting habits.

Korlash was fun to play with.