Mini 760 - Bleach Mafia: Karakura Town - Game Over!

[Albert B. Rampage]

I beg to differ.

[ZEEnon]

So I haven't been researching, or I haven't been researching

independantly

?

[Korlash]

You role is believeable. However, your actions reek of scum. Or maybe that's your cologne..

Such as....?

Korlash totally ruins my theory in his post 616.

How so?

And:

ZEEnon, would you mind giving a compiled synopsis on why you suspect Korlash?

Would be nice to have this one answered...

[Korlash]

So I haven't been researching, or I haven't been researching independantly?

Not that I want to budge into your and ABR's convo... but... I haven't seen much use from your "reaserch" so far. I mean you seem completely bent on set-up and role speculation which is fine, but you seem to be keeping half of it to yourself. This kinda defeats the purpose of speclation of this degree if you don't present your full argument. This is mostly in regards to your "theory"... I may be wrong but I don't remember you ever actually telling us what said theory is... And so every time you mention it you pretty much make whatever you are talking about worthless.

As for independantly seeing as how you match GC in the fact you have yet to actually tell me why Me and/or Gorrad are scum I don't think you qualify as doing anything period, independantly or not. If you were to say why you think this way, or back it up with reasons or whatever I would say you were working independantly as you would be the only one doing it...

[Gorrad]

Now,

Gorrad-related stuff

:

1. Frankly, I don't see how the logic there is the same at all. For one thing, Seraphim has an obvious strong bias. Secondly, I, unlike Seraphim, posted reasons why ZEE was more likely. You can't say we have the same logic when Seraphim doesn't post logic. And yes, I still feel the same way about ZEE. In fact, Xtoxm's claim's satisfied me enough for now, Unvote, Vote: ZEEnon.

Here's the logic: "Seraphim is pretty scummy! However, ZEE is

even more

scummy! Therefore, let's vote ZEE and not Seraphim." It acknowledges that Seraphim is scummy but you want to bypass him for a "more scummy" candidate. I use quotation marks because I find that opinion to be incredibly suspect. But, you both used it. That's how. Bias doesn't come into play in determining the fact that the two of you used the exact same logic.

What were your posted reasons as to why ZEE was more likely? I didn't catch anything substantial on my read through yesterday.
Do you really think two scumbags made the exact same mistake?

2. I found ZEE's original transgression worse than Seraphim's. I found him scummier. However, the kills paradox, aka the reason I was voting Seraphim, slipped my mind in 463, hence why I thought I was voting ZEEnon. When I realized that I wasn't, I looked through my post history and remembered why my vote was where it was.

So you don't think the timing of this "slip of the mind" wasn't terribly convenient/bad timing (from whatever perspective you want to look at it)?

3. 384 is a response to 383

Alright, that's what I thought. But I can't understand why you're making it in response to 383. I think we're interpreting Phily's statement different, so please explain to me what it meant to you.

I see the difference in your issue with the claim itself and the mechanics of the claim in 4. I think 5 hinges upon you just so happening to forget the incredibly legitimate reasons to vote Seraphim when his wagon was starting to tremble and waver.

Re: 1.

AWESOME! 'doctor' save! (most likely, no idea why mafia would NK)
well the doctor now knows a (potential) clear, which is good.

Alright. Day 2, dead SK, no NKs. We got lucky. Time to start hunting scum.

ZEEnon: "Hey, let's try and get the doctor to claim his target so my buddies and I can NK him tonight and the person we targetted the night after."
Seraphim: "Whatever happened, it was a stroke of good luck for town. Let's not go into it, but rather start scumhunting."

Both have the commentary on night happenings tell, but you can see the differences I saw as stated above. And yeah, it's totally possible that two scum did the same mistake.

Re: 2. It was bad timing. Slips of the mind rarely have GOOD timing.

Re: 3. To me, Philly was commenting on how well Korlash and I get along and were working together (plus things like my reacting to his being insulted) and wondered if that connection was due to previous games or to pre-game talk. I linked the list of games in which Korlash and I have both participated in order to show that the former was true.

Re: Xtoxm's role: The way I see it, it's like Korlash's Spirit Enabler ability in that each role has some special change it undergoes when targetted. For scum, however, the change is negative (ie. a roleblock, role change, vote removal, target change, perhaps even recruitment).

[ZEEnon]

So you're saying that we are supposed to lynch one of the two people that can enable our powers?
(Assuming both aren't scum)
Also, i've changed my mind. If one of Korlash/ Gorrad comes out scum, I doubt the other is.
Mafia wouldn't batantly show off their partner to all.
One of them might be mafia trying to 'buddy up' with a town-aligned player.

[Korlash]

i'm going to start ignoreing you Zee because if I don't I'm going to have a meltdown. You have officially used up your worthless unjustified accusations quota and I'm done fighting you. if you want to actually include reasons sometime or maybe stop parroting GC for a second and think for yourself then I might start giving you the time of day again, until then...

Re: Xtoxm's role: The way I see it, it's like Korlash's Spirit Enabler ability in that each role has some special change it undergoes when targetted. For scum, however, the change is negative (ie. a roleblock, role change, vote removal, target change, perhaps even recruitment).

Still don't see where he would get "enabler" from then... Unless his role is like "disabler" and he just guessed it...

[Mastin]

Apologies--fell behind due to my internet.
Quoting what I see as the highlights of the last two pages here.

Does what i claim contradict any tells? Otherwise what's the point of this? it seems like you're throwing subtle doubt into my claim without actually saying it.

I thought you were Urahara--you dropped LOADS of Urahara tells--I have them in a document. They were all over the place, really.
Anyway, your claim does make sense, and I KNOW who you targeted n1 from a post of yours at some point in the game that I will not reveal (you made it too obvious, Korlash). It makes sense.

Mastin had made it look like he was claiming Tracker and half confirming Sera's story.

Nope.

The fact that K has the same role as good as confirms me.

Our Mod DOES like pairs of two--two Martrs, two vanillas, four partially night-kill immune townies, etc. Which does, indeed, make it far more believable, but not instantly confirming you, X.

Mastin, you should start choosing sides by now. Lines have been drawn.

I am definitely not liking Green's attitude in the game so far. He seems to be pushing for any lynch that will stick, and has done so from the beginning--his posts show logic, but they, again, seem to be trying to purposefully set up early lynches, and lynches for the next day.
X's style of play doesn't fit my meta on him as town,
Korlash's claim conflicts with what I thought, and is a rather minor character, yet his overall play has been good for rather some time now,
Glados is very pro-town, and I definitely believe the claim,
Green brought up a good point about Jebus,
Zee's play yesterday was questionable, but his play today makes perfect sense... (and seems pro-town)

No, I can't take a side yet, as I am both
1: Behind, due to internet failures,
2: Still weighing earlier evidence and claims.

The different sides both also contain players who I find scummy, and players I find pro-town.

Also, cut the setup discussion, its not helping the town.

I'll try, for the simple reasoning that I don't want to become known as the electician or something like that for outing

power

roles.
On more serious notes, yes, I'll try to hold back, though at this stage in the game, I believe a fair amount of setup speculation will help.

Erg0 has the arrogance of a player that thinks he is above everyone else for being right once.

*ponders his own playstyle and compares it to Green's* Hmm... (I've been accused of this before, so it was an interesting point...)
I'll need to think about this point.

This may be the most callous and most insulting thing I have ever seen in a game of mafia -- and it is directed at both Mastin and to ZEEnon.

I take no offense at something that is at least partially true--I take my experience from previous games, and another site which works...a little differently from here (epicmafia.com. I know ZEE's a player there as well. We've played a few matches here and there, I believe, a long time ago). Of the players here, it is true that I am very probably the one with the least experience.
Can't speak for ZEE on this point, though.

---

*points to self*
See the person I'm pointing to? Yea, he's worthless. He's at an all-time low in scum hunting.

[Korlash]

I thought you were Urahara--you dropped LOADS of Urahara tells--I have them in a document. They were all over the place, really.
Anyway, your claim does make sense, and I KNOW who you targeted n1 from a post of yours at some point in the game that I will not reveal (you made it too obvious, Korlash). It makes sense.

I would like to see these... -_-

Our Mod DOES like pairs of two--two Martrs, two vanillas, four partially night-kill immune townies, etc. Which does, indeed, make it far more believable, but not instantly confirming you, X.

Unless this set-up is show to have some sort of numerical partnership to it, past set-up meta isn't all that convinsing. Considering how a lot of us seem to have active and passive abilities, it's possible multiple roles were used... However, until a massclaim we can't rely on "pairs" theories.

[Mastin]

NOTE: Edited out some information, but otherwise, haven't changed anything.

I strongly believe that Korlash is Urahara.
He dropped a tell about his favorite characters being Urahara and the kids, covering with the Golden group.
And he dropped a serious tell right here:

I would like to throw my hat into the ring of asking

Who’s the only Bleach character who wears a hat?
Further hints:

would be a great name for some

industrial cleaning solution?

Also would you mind pointing out what and where these suspicions are for

us deaf and dumb people like me that need constant reassurance?

Or do you still need time to find something that sounds remotely good enough to pass off? I would think seven pages isn't that hard to

manufacture a sutable answer

.

Bolded is an obvious reference to Urahara’s age. Underlined is a sign of Urahara’s shop—stuff like that is common place there.

See I don't really like being attacked from the sidelines by a benched player is all.

Urahara, for the most part, takes the sidelines in a fight, on the bench, really.

Gorrad are you feeling it? You know, it? Yes? no? Ok...

Possible hint at Gorrad-Korlash partnership. (Which related to my mason theory)

but you're on to me here. I do know something but it's definitly not what you are thinking. Unless you are thinking strange things...

Hints at his role.

... I like to think I'm everyone's boss... And you're fired...

This was what originally tipped me off—Urahara is the owner (boss) of his shop, and could fire any of his employees if he so chose. It took a while to hit me, but it did.

This is no more then me backing up what's happened in the past

Urahara has a rather long past.

I doubt Urahara is in it simply because he took a more sideline approach in this battle.

This is the ONLY thing which makes me doubt Korlash is Urahara, although it could be just a setup—crumbing taking a sideline in the battle, and mentioning being attacked from the sideline, could be a way of countering it, stating subtly that Urahara is in the game.

Then again neither was I... Hmmm... Well I mean I suppose i was in a way... sorta...

Urahara wasn’t really in the fight. But he was ‘sort of’ in it.

Of course, some tells of these can also be applied for Korlash's claim, like the "<3 Chadokun" he dropped.

[Green Crayons]

Refusing to explain seting up future lynches is always bad and only confirms what Bullshit it is. ... Explain your reasonings scum.

It's a nice way of calling my post scummy without saying how. You just can't find reasons for anything can you?

I will plainly say that I do not see a reason for the dichotomy.

I actually typed it out, previewed it, looked it over, gave it a final moment or two of thought and then decided against it. I'm really confident in it and I think my suspicions of both Gorrad and Korlash are legitimate while standing on their own - dichotomy not needed. Since one of you (Korlash) has a significant chance at being scum, I'm not going to harm the town to appease scum to explain why these two are in an either/or position. The rest of the town can just accept the fact that I (and Phily, and ZEE...) find them both to be suspicious and make their judgments based off of the examples of scum play I brought up.

Caught him "searching"? What the hell does that mean? How can you catch him "searching" in the middle of the day? Are you talking about an in game activity, or like search the web? I mean... I just don't understand what you are saying here...

So you're basically telling me that you're just willfully ignoring pretty much everything that happened yesterday? Did you even review D2?

And I hardly see how "searching" corroborates with "Filming to increase ratings"... It hardly confirms him no matter how you clearify it...

It means he was acting in such a manner prior to attention being showered upon him. Therefore, that he has always been acting with a certain role in mind. Thus, he did not just pull it right out of his ass. That helps to confirm his claim, not his alignment.

Excuse me? If you are accusing me of lurking then be up-front about it, and then explain why you think that.

Pardon? Are you suggesting that you have been an incredibly active player this game?

I am just not following the logic here. If we can “afford a mislynch” then this should be an argument in favor of Green Crayons being more willing to consider lynching Jebus, rather than keeping his options narrowed down to Korlash or Gorrad as he ends up doing.

I would rather have a mis-lynch that puts us one step closer to getting scum (the other half of a Gorrad/Korlash dichotomy) than a mislynch that doesn't help us at all (if Jebus flips what the hell does that tell us? Nothing). Sorry, I like all lynches - even lynches of town - to help me narrow down who scum are.

This person was town, so let’s follow whoever they were going after.

This is clearly a bad argument, and it is furthermore just about the easiest argument for scum to manipulate their play to subvert. It is pretty much the most classic way to get a town to chase it's own tail.

Oh, wow. Wow. Wow.

DOS thinks we should completely ignore suspicions of confirmed (dead) innocents. That's about the scummiest thing I can think of to say. It doesn't matter that Phily was the cop. He could have been a vanilla townie for all I care. But he was town. It's confirmed. We don't have to worry about him attempting to manipulate the town with his suspicions when we look at the previous days. We can take his opinions and suspicions at face value - a luxury we don't have with any living players.

As I already said, if we look back and decide that we don't agree with his suspicions, then we can just leave them be. I've already covered the fact that town isn't always right - hell, Phily wasn't right with his desire to not see a Seraphim lynch. I also loled at the "manipulating" dead town's play. It's clear that Phily suspected Gorrad and Korlash. You don't have to agree with those suspicions, but they're there.

It's a fact

. Please tell me how stating Phily's suspicions is somehow "manipulating" his play?

Basically, I'm suggesting we should pay attention to dead town's suspicions as we reflect upon our opinions. We pay attention to living players' opinions who we think are town. So the only difference is the fact that dead players are town-confirmed by the mod whereas living ones are not, so dead players' opinions are more legitimate.

Not

reliable, but legitimate, because we can trust them more to reflect the town's best interest. The fact that Korlash and DOS both don't want to rely on this incredibly rich minefield of information is... I don't know... incredibly scummy?

Still, I have not liked the way he has attacked people throughout the game. This includes his attack on Giuseppe on Day One, his attack on Seraphim from Day One and Day Two (despite the fact that these attacks ended up being against scum), and now his attacks on Gorrad and Korlash on Day Three. There is something about the way he has been going after people that does not sit with me.

lol. "I don't like how GC plays even though it helped him zero in on a SeraScum lynch."

Yes. From what I can discern, ZEEnon has been researching the game independently, creating theories based off that research independently, and drawing conclusions as to alignments largely based off those theories. Green Crayons has been doing no such thing.

I just pick names out of a hat. You caught me!

blargh I'm right for no real reason

What's your non-circumstantial evidence, then?

I am definitely not liking Green's attitude in the game so far. He seems to be pushing for any lynch that will stick, and has done so from the beginning--his posts show logic, but they, again, seem to be trying to purposefully set up early lynches, and lynches for the next day.

You're right. I like to look ahead. Like Seraphim from the end of D1 to a D2 lynch. Like Gorrad/Korlash from the end of D2 to a D3 lynch. The template worked for Seraphim, it could easily work again for Gorrad/Korlash.

Mod

, can we get a vote count please?

[OhGodMyLife]

Vote Count:

5 to lynch

Xtoxm: 2 (Albert B. Rampage, Gorrad)
Gorrad: 2 (Xtoxm, ZEEnon)

Not Voting: 5 (Green Crayons, GLaDOS, Mastin, Jebus, Korlash)

[Albert B. Rampage]

GC should be ignored by everyone until the end of the day.

[GLaDOS]

... Processing ...

Incredible. Warning: Long post.

Pardon? Are you suggesting that you have been an incredibly active player this game?

Since when does "not being

incredibly

active" mean "lurking"? I post when I can, and I post when I have something to say. The only time where I was

inactive

was the time frame between April 1 - April 6, when I told the town ahead of time that I would be gone as "part of a required test protocol." I probably average about one to two posts a day, and that is about what I expect my posting rate to be.

Why don't you lay down your definition of lurking?

~

Oh, wow. Wow. Wow.

DOS thinks we should completely ignore suspicions of confirmed (dead) innocents.

That's about the scummiest thing I can think of to say. It doesn't matter that Phily was the cop. He could have been a vanilla townie for all I care. But he was town. It's confirmed. We don't have to worry about him attempting to manipulate the town with his suspicions when we look at the previous days. We can take his opinions and suspicions at face value - a luxury we don't have with any living players.

You have done it again. You have taken a phrase and tried to interpret into meaning the most rigid and preposterous thing possible. Let’s compare your “interpretation” to what I actually said:

Your argument, in effect, is:

This person was town, so let’s follow whoever they were going after.

This is clearly a bad argument, and it is furthermore just about the easiest argument for scum to manipulate their play to subvert. It is pretty much the most classic way to get a town to chase it's own tail.

Never did I say to "ignore" the suspicions of PhilyEc. My position is that we should not be blindly following the dead and throwing away

our own suspicions

in the hopes that the dead player was correct. I have a brain of my own, and I think I am better served to find scum with it then the last words of a dead player who was completely wrong about Seraphim.

Unless you give reasons as to why you think PhilyEc’s judgment is better than my own judgment, I have no reason to try to lynch whoever PhilyEc was going after last. I guarantee you that as scum I have set up “domino” lynches many times. In other words, I kill somebody who was on the wrong track, and then people rush down the wrong track, and then they double-back on whoever

that

person was going after, and so forth. It is mindless and very easy to manipulate through nightkill choices and bandwagons.

~

I also loled at the "manipulating" dead town's play. It's clear that Phily suspected Gorrad and Korlash. You don't have to agree with those suspicions, but they're there. It's a fact. Please tell me how stating Phily's suspicions is somehow "manipulating" his play?

This is absolutely ridiculous. I honestly do not know how you can even

read

my post to say that scum are currently manipulating players who are

dead

. It is easy to manipulate because once

one

town player is proven wrong through a lynch, then why not try following the second town player, or the third town player? It is just a continues cycle that can easily result in the town chasing it’s own tail.

Your argument lies completely on the assumption that "whoever the scum killed was correct in their suspicions," and this is not a premise I find to be valid, especially in this instance where PhilyEc may have been killed for other reasons entirely.

~

Basically, I'm suggesting we should pay attention to dead town's suspicions as we reflect upon our opinions. We pay attention to living players' opinions who we think are town. So the only difference is the fact that dead players are town-confirmed by the mod whereas living ones are not, so dead players' opinions are more legitimate.

Not

reliable, but legitimate, because we can trust them more to reflect the town's best interest. The fact that Korlash and DOS both don't want to rely on this incredibly rich minefield of information is... I don't know... incredibly scummy?

See above. I

agree

that it is

worth

looking at what dead townspeople say. But this does not mean I am going to

follow

dead townspeople.

And you are wrong to say that the only “difference” is that we are alive and PhilyEc is dead and confirmed.

1.)

We have one more night’s worth of information.

2.)

We know the alignment of one more player than PhilyEc does. [Discounting possible correct investigations, obviously.]

3.)

We have had the opportunity to see how positions have changed during Day Three.

4.)

We have had the opportunity to see a good number of role-claims today, and therefore have a much better view of the probable set-up.

I have a good deal more information than PhilyEc had, and I am much more inclined to use my own reasoning over somebody else’s reasoning, whether they are town or not. Yes, it is true that PhilyEc is not scum, but the same will be true of all other players who die in this game as town.

Now, I would like you to answer this question, Green Crayons. Suppose you are a Cop that has a 100% Sane result -- there is absolutely no question that your investigations are always accurate. Now, you get an innocent result on a player who is alive. Would you then begin following that player simply because their reasoning must be legitimate? Or would you continue acting off your own reasoning?

The difference between us here appears to be the following:

You think we should follow PhilyEc (and you) without question because PhilyEc is confirmed and town, and therefore his reasoning is legitimate and not scum-motivated.

I

think PhilyEc's suspicions are worth noting, but that they should not subsume a player's

own

thought process.

~

I actually typed it out, previewed it, looked it over, gave it a final moment or two of thought and then decided against it. I'm really confident in it and I think my suspicions of both Gorrad and Korlash are legitimate while standing on their own - dichotomy not needed. Since one of you (Korlash) has a significant chance at being scum, I'm not going to harm the town to appease scum to explain why these two are in an either/or position. The rest of the town can just accept the fact that I (and Phily, and ZEE...) find them both to be suspicious and make their judgments based off of the examples of scum play I brought up.

Pardon my French, but:

FISH-SHAPED SOLID WASTE

. If you

honestly

think you have a theory that narrows a scum down to 1 or 2 players, then there is

absolutely no reason to withhold it

, especially when the town is in such a good position as we are. Who cares if it “might” help the scum a little bit? I guarantee that whatever mystical "benefit" that would be given to the scum will be outweighed if your theory actually results in a scum-lynch.

When it comes down to it, mafia is a game of numbers, and not information. If the town lynches scum every day, then it simply does not matter how much information the scum has.

[Korlash]

GC should be ignored by everyone until the end of the day.

Awesome plan...

[Green Crayons]

GC should be ignored by everyone until the end of the day.

Would love to hear that non-circumstantial evidence you have against Xtox.

[Albert B. Rampage]

The discrepancy between Xtoxm's behavior and his claim are enough to prove that he is fakeclaiming scum.

[Korlash]

Like the non-madeup evidence you have that makes one of me or Gorrad scum if the other is town and town if the other is scum?

I think there are lots of things we would all love to hear...

[Green Crayons]

Since when does "not being incredibly active" mean "lurking"? I post when I can, and I post when I have something to say. The only time where I was inactive was the time frame between April 1 - April 6, when I told the town ahead of time that I would be gone as "part of a required test protocol." I probably average about one to two posts a day, and that is about what I expect my posting rate to be.

Yawn. I said that Jebus was being more of a lurker than you. I never said that you were lurking, simply any lurking done by Jebus was at a greater scale than you. By that standard, Jebus has been more of a lurker than Xtox, ZEE, Korlash, Gorrad and myself. If anything, I was - originally - merely commenting on the fact that you haven't been the most frequent of posters while explaining my thoughts on Jebus. Then I you wanted me to spell it out to you that I didn't think you were an incredibly frequent poster. Now you're getting all pissy for no reason. Way to go and blow up over something so incredibly not important.

Let’s compare your “interpretation” to what I actually said:

Let's compare your "interpretation" to what I actually said:

We should pay attention to the indicators of the confirmed, dead cop because we know that his suspicions were not motivated by scum origins.

Now, if we disagree with his inclinations is one thing

. But I don't. And I trust the cop's inclinations

because he's was town and they matched my own

. So I'm asking the town to trust the cop (as they should) and me (who was one of the players who strongly pushed for scumbag Seraphim's lynch). Not too much of a stretch here.

This person was town, so let’s follow whoever they were going after.

You think we should follow PhilyEc (and you) without question because PhilyEc is confirmed and town, and therefore his reasoning is legitimate and not scum-motivated. I think PhilyEc's suspicions are worth noting, but that they should not subsume a player's own thought process.

It's amazing how aligned my original post and DOS' most recently formed opinion are. I like how she's pretending as if her opinion stands in stark contrast to my originally voiced opinion. I like how she's making up a ton of bullshit (e.g. I think we should follow confirmed town without question, I think confirmed town's suspicions should overrule our own inclinations, etc.) that she's pulling from her revision of my original post, but it's bullshit because he "interpretation" is so incredibly off. You know, it's almost as if she ignored my whole first post entirely, took a single line out of context and jumped on me because she wants me out of this game for some inexplicable reason.

FISH-SHAPED SOLID WASTE

Fine. ZEE is the doctor. Or, if he isn't, he been acting like he is the doctor - and to the outside observer it's one and the same. He dropped at least three big time hints/tells at the beginning of yesterday. It was so incredibly obvious that I can't believe you didn't catch it. In light of these doctor tells, Gorrad and Korlash pushed his lynch heavy all throughout the day. My best guess as to why ZEE isn't currently dead is because scum thought they would at least give it a day/night cycle so we wouldn't immediately go back and check out what scumbags really wanted ZEE-doc dead. The fact of the matter is, both Gorrad and Korlash were big ZEE-lynch supporters. So was Seraphim. I think it's either/or because I can't see SeraScum AND scumbuddy one AND scumbuddy two trying to lynch the doctor - it's just too incredibly obvious. But, coupled with their suspicious play style, I'm convinced at least one of them was attempting to help their buddy SeraScum get out from beneath the spotlight while lynching the doctor in the process.
-----

Like the non-madeup evidence you have that makes one of me or Gorrad scum if the other is town and town if the other is scum?

So you agree with me that it isn't made up? Thanks, pal!
-----

The discrepancy between Xtoxm's behavior and his claim are enough to prove that he is fakeclaiming scum.

Examples?

[Korlash]

So you agree with me that it isn't made up? Thanks, pal!

So we're going to start twisitng each other's words now then? Ok, so you admit to agreeing Albert's evidence against Xtoxm isn't Circustantial. Cool.

[Green Crayons]

Uh, maybe you should reread what you wrote.

"Like the non-madeup evidence you have that makes one of me or Gorrad scum if the other is town and town if the other is scum?" I know what you were trying to say (my evidence for the Gorrad/Korlash dichotomy was made up) but that's not what your sentence actually says.

Non means not. Negative. Therefore, your sentence reads "Like the not madeup evidence..."
Madeup means not real. Therefore, your sentence reads "Like the not not real evidence..."
Double negatives cancel each other out. Therefore, your sentence reads "Like the real evidence..."


So... Yeah. I wasn't twisting your words around. I was playfully pointing out that your sentence structure made your accusation fall flat. Way to miss the point entirely, though, buddy. Actually, the only way my comment would have missed the mark would have been if you were being sarcastic - but your response (that I was "twisting your words") shows that you were being genuine and therefore my criticism stands. Untarnished. Jeeze, touchy.

[GLaDOS]

… Processing …

I think we should be lynching either Korlash or Gorrad today. Nobody else. I don't want to explain my reasons for this (so, yes, I'm asking people to trust me and my judgment) at all today - besides saying that the reasons are grounded in D2 judgment - because it would really help scum at the town's expense.

The evidence behind the Gorrad/Korlash dichotomy is one of them, though it's plain to see with one's eyes open while looking at D2. I will say that Phily, our cop and confirmed innocent, thought that either Gorrad or Korlash was scummy. My reasoning does not stem from this fact, but this just shows that a confirmed innocent was also of the mind that at least one of these two were scumbags. So, technically, the town doesn't just have to trust me - the town can trust Phily and I.

Both of these posts are essentially asking me to follow you (i.e. PhilyEc) without question. You explicitly ask the town

trust you

. That is the very definition of blindly following. I am not in the least convinced that you are town, so the fact that “PhilyEc’s inclinations match with

your

own” does not mean anything to

me

. Everything I said I stand by.

~

To say I want you out of the game for some “inexplicable” reason is ludicrous. I have been suspicious of you for much of the game, and I have made that clear. To say that I would want you dead before the game can reach 5 players alive is to say that if I had the chance to kill all but five players (let’s assume through some special dayvig power), you would be one of the players I kill. In other words, yesterday you were not in my top five “players most likely to be town.”

~

Fine. ZEE is the doctor. Or, if he isn't, he been acting like he is the doctor - and to the outside observer it's one and the same. He dropped at least three big time hints/tells at the beginning of yesterday. It was so incredibly obvious that I can't believe you didn't catch it. In light of these doctor tells, Gorrad and Korlash pushed his lynch heavy all throughout the day. My best guess as to why ZEE isn't currently dead is because scum thought they would at least give it a day/night cycle so we wouldn't immediately go back and check out what scumbags really wanted ZEE-doc dead. The fact of the matter is, both Gorrad and Korlash were big ZEE-lynch supporters. So was Seraphim. I think it's either/or because I can't see SeraScum AND scumbuddy one AND scumbuddy two trying to lynch the doctor - it's just too incredibly obvious. But, coupled with their suspicious play style, I'm convinced at least one of them was attempting to help their buddy SeraScum get out from beneath the spotlight while lynching the doctor in the process.

You say this as if I am blind (“I can’t believe you didn’t catch it”). I have long since thought that if there is a Doctor that ZEEnon is the most likely candidate. This led me to believe that: (a) either ZEEnon is the Doctor who probably protected me on Night One (given that he thought I was “an excellent choice for a night kill”), and that he wondered if you “knew that I was Night Two’s target”); or (b) ZEEnon is town and has accidentally / purposefully given off strong Doctor tells; or (c) he is scum that probably tried to kill me Night One and is setting up a possible avenue for a claim.

As you can probably tell, I think it is very likely that I was indeed scum’s target for a Night One kill, and this was largely the reason why I asked if you “like to kill players like me” back in Post 270. Players like me – of course – being an experienced player (which you admit you suspected since Day One) who has been going after

you

.

I will be frank that I think your theory of “scum are the most likely to have attacked ZEEnon for his Doctor tell” is not as surefire as you make it to be. I think it quite likely that one scum would take such an avenue of attack, and that has already been proven through Seraphim’s death. To now say with 95% certainty (although you admit this is just a number you’ve thrown out) that there must be a second scum is to stretch too far, in my opinion.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Wow, Glados just owned GC.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Players like me – of course – being an experienced player (which you admit you suspected since Day One) who has been going after

you

.

Who are you?

[Green Crayons]

Vote: Gorrad

. Forgot to do that earlier. I honestly think Korlash and Gorrad are equally scummy. The fact that Gorrad already has some votes on him is why I'm voting him.

To say I want you out of the game for some “inexplicable” reason is ludicrous. I have been suspicious of you for much of the game, and I have made that clear. To say that I would want you dead before the game can reach 5 players alive is to say that if I had the chance to kill all but five players (let’s assume through some special dayvig power), you would be one of the players I kill. In other words, yesterday you were not in my top five “players most likely to be town.”

Oh, it has been abundantly obvious that you've suspected me from pretty much post one. And I know why: you just don't like my play style. So, you're right. "Inexplicable" was the incorrect word to use. My apologies. I should have conjured up "baseless" or "nonsensical" or just plain ole "bad."

Both of these posts are essentially asking me to follow you (i.e. PhilyEc) without question. You explicitly ask the town trust you. That is the very definition of blindly following. I am not in the least convinced that you are town, so the fact that “PhilyEc’s inclinations match with your own” does not mean anything to me. Everything I said I stand by.

It's asking the town to whittle their perspective to only Gorrad and Korlash for the day - not to just lynch them. I said the reasons were grounded in D2 - not explaining them does not mean people can't do the legwork themselves and figure it out on their own. Furthermore, I threw out a whole bunch of suspicious crap about each of the players. So I didn't make these claims and suggestions in a vacuum as you're suggesting, thanks.

As you can probably tell, I think it is very likely that I was indeed scum’s target for a Night One kill, and this was largely the reason why I asked if you “like to kill players like me” back in Post 270. Players like me – of course – being an experienced player (which you admit you suspected since Day One) who has been going after you.

ZEE made an incredibly obvious "I protected DOS last night and she isn't dead" statement near the beginning of D2 through a couple of posts put together. That's when I came around to the thinking that you were very likely N1 target as well. Glad to see we're all on the same page. Hurrah.

I think it quite likely that one scum would take such an avenue of attack, and that has already been proven through Seraphim’s death. To now say with 95% certainty (although you admit this is just a number you’ve thrown out) that there must be a second scum is to stretch too far, in my opinion.

I disagree. The fact that you did catch on that ZEE was hinting he was the doctor only further proves that I'm not some sort of messianic individual with mod-divination powers. It was abundantly obvious that ZEE is the doctor, or is making very obvious doctor plays. So there are two things that damns Gorrad and Korlash: 1) they both pushed hard for an obvDoc lynch and 2) they both attempted to dissuade/not help a scum lynch. These two separate hits against their character just so happened at the same time. Which makes them both incredibly large scumbags. Seraphim looks like he was just trying to catch onto the next biggest suspicion wagon and ride it to a lynch that wasn't himself, thus negating any diminishing impact he may have on their respective scummy play.

Wow, Glados just owned GC.

Would love those actual examples.