Webcomic Wars Mafia: D7- Be Thankful I'm Not The Author

[Head_Honcho]

I think the lammont case is weak but is probably going to happen. I saw the phrase over enthusiastic used to describe him and I think that's probably it. Populartajo and fishy look scummy to me. Tajo's a gut thing, fishy's the post you just cited.

[Gorrad]

Give a warm welcome to Sajin, replacing xRECKONERx.

[Empking]

I agree that LC should claim.

[Fishythefish]

Fishy's here mainly because of one post in particular:

I find tss’s comment about a 1-2 mislynch decidedly off. The fact that I cast the first vote is hardly going to make me the automatic lynch on a 13-player wagon, even if I happen to leave my vote there throughout the day. Lamont’s agreement with the original statement looks bad also.

I said I also noted how he said "random vote" and so I agree with you in noting that. However, in my mind that only sets up a potential relationship between him and Rofl. I questioned him about it and like his repsonse and don't actually think his vote is random. Therefore no reason that is being used to advocate his lynch is working with me at all.

OK. This makes sense in context of your next post.

I dislike Lamont’s repeated usage of “the famous Tar” (114). He appears to be attempting to avoid attacks by saying that attacks from Tar need to be of a particularly good quality, even so early in the game.

Some other points against Lamont have been not all that good. He has espoused antitown positions- basically, lynching for reasons other than probability of being scum, and insulting arguments rather than replying to them. I don’t think these are very strongly correlated with scum rather than simply wrong town- I’ve always found the image of a scum who knows the right theory and argues the opposite to confound the town deeply unconvincing, at least for such simple points. Similarly, I can’t imagine the scum who sits down and decides the best way to evade arguments is to say they are nonsense. Such things are perhaps marginally scummy, but my limited experience suggests that the pretty well the same players would always get lynched off them, independent of alignment. Having said that,

unvote, vote: Lamont

Nevertheless, the scummiest player.

Notice the wishy-washy, people - he argues against the arguments for why Lamont is scummy... then votes Lamont for being scummy (says "still the scummiest" but with little elaboration except for one point about Lamont's ad hominem defense). This is town behavior why, exactly?

To vote for Lamont, I don't have to agree with all the arguments against him. I think his ad hominem in response to your attack was easily the worst thing he has done- it reeks of trying to avoid an attack through completely unreasonable means. The rest is marginally scummy, but easier to dismiss as town playing badly. I also mention the fact that he agrees with tss's stretchy 1-2 mislynch theory, which I think was an attempt to throw the town off his wagon.

I associate the phrase "wishy-washy" with an ill-defined position. I think my thoughts on Lamont are set out quite clearly in the post quoted.

[populartajo]

I think the lammont case is weak but is probably going to happen. I saw the phrase over enthusiastic used to describe him and I think that's probably it. Populartajo and fishy look scummy to me. Tajo's a gut thing, fishy's the post you just cited.

Can you elaborate on your gut?

What exactly makes you think that the lammont case is weak?

[hasdgfas]

FoS: tajo

first off, we have a list of

everyone

with where he places them on a scum scale. Always scummy, because it's just so.......out there. It only helps scum. If anyone wants me to explain why, I can, but if everyone understands what I'm talking about, I'll just leave it there.

And then he decides to defend people using the "random stage" defense. Uggh, It's nearly impossible to explain just how scummy that is.

First, I always do scumlists. Its not scummy at all. Also, what do you mean with it only helps scum?

Do you have links of games where you're town and scum where you do scumlists?
One of the main things I look for when figuring out if something's scummy or not is whether it'd help the town if the whole town did it. With scumlists, it doesn't help the town, because it tells scum who the townies think is town, and doesn't let the more townie players live to later days.

Second, about the random voting stage, do you at least know what I am talking about?

Vino and Lammont started attacking Fish, rolf, Korlash and me because we joined a wagon in random voting stage. What is so scummy in joining a wagon in random voting stage? Explain it please.

"RVS"(which is crap, IMO, and why I hate people using it as a defense, because it's still a real part of the game), is a great time for scum to let their guard down and do something scummy that they can then use "Random stage" as a defense in.

@Tar:

Try not to take Medieval as my normal play, because I was never fully caught up in that game and had to be replaced. Sure, I did summary posts in it, but iirc, you said in that game that you'd seen me do them in other games and thought me town because of it.

[populartajo]

FoS: tajo

first off, we have a list of

everyone

with where he places them on a scum scale. Always scummy, because it's just so.......out there. It only helps scum. If anyone wants me to explain why, I can, but if everyone understands what I'm talking about, I'll just leave it there.

And then he decides to defend people using the "random stage" defense. Uggh, It's nearly impossible to explain just how scummy that is.

First, I always do scumlists. Its not scummy at all. Also, what do you mean with it only helps scum?

Do you have links of games where you're town and scum where you do scumlists?

Check all my games in my profile. I mean it. All of them. Ask some here. I always use scumlists regardless of alignment.

One of the main things I look for when figuring out if something's scummy or not is whether it'd help the town if the whole town did it. With scumlists, it doesn't help the town, because it tells scum who the townies think is town, and doesn't let the more townie players live to later days.

Im not sure Im following your logic here. You say Im scummy for doing scumlists because it tells scum who the townies think is town. That means you think Im town telling the scum who I think is town. Which means that you just made a case against a townie. Nice.

Second, about the random voting stage, do you at least know what I am talking about?

Vino and Lammont started attacking Fish, rolf, Korlash and me because we joined a wagon in random voting stage. What is so scummy in joining a wagon in random voting stage? Explain it please.

"RVS"(which is crap, IMO, and why I hate people using it as a defense, because it's still a real part of the game), is a great time for scum to let their guard down and do something scummy that they can then use "Random stage" as a defense in.

So whats exactly scummy in RANDOM bandwagoning Vino the way rolf, me and Korlash did?

[roflcopter]

hascow is chasing shadows with the whole tajo scumlist thing. 1) tajo always does this, 2) no it wouldn't be scummy even if he didn't always do this, 3) if your problem is that it clues scum in on who people think are town, how on earth does that make the action scummy??

lamont, vino and tss need to post. lamont needs to claim or die.

[qwints]

Oh roflcopter, cheery as usual.

On a serious note, this game has moved fast and I'm falling behind. I'll re-read ASAP.

[Vino]

Vino is the least scummy of the three. But has failed to see Lammont scumminess and also doesnt say anything about he being prob town

I see it and I've alluded to that before. I don't like his defenses of me or a lot of his behavior, but I haven't said much because everything I think has already been said. The more time goes by the more I dislike him, (largely because of his poor defenses to Tar's arguments,) and I'll probably be casting a vote on him if I don't like his claim. I probably should have made that more clear before.

I think it's possible, but it is in no way suggested. Did the early Lamont or Rofl wagons have any better reasons listed? No. The only difference is that the wagons were smaller. Are you telling me my random vote on You makes me more likely scum then Lamont's vote on Rofl just because two other people voted him after me? What, can I see the future?

I would have dropped this issue two or three posts ago, but you keep defending it rather adamantly. 247 wasn't meant to be a strong case for the scumminess of the bandwagon, it was only an assertion of what kind of information could be gleaned from it depending on any particular player's point of view. It has nothing to do with who voted for what in what order, it has to do with why they voted, and doesn't deal with any other bandwagon than mine. Here's what it looked like:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 87#1745687

vote: Vino

Because he is scum.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 62#1745862

Hmmm... This seems pretty solid...

Vote: Vino

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 85#1746085

vote: vino

this is a solid bandwagon

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 90#1746090

I can support both of these wagons:

Lammont and Vino.

Also Fishy is town.

Vote: Vino.

So my argument in 247 is: either you think that looks fishy and at least one of those people must be scum (this is what I think) or you think they were random and we can't glean any scum-info from this bandwagon. I just don't buy the "random votes" defense though, they didn't look very random to me. They looked intentional. It's easy to say it's random when you actually have a motivation to do it. In fact, voting into a bandwagon is by definition not random, as it is the act of singling out a target and voting him because others did so before, decidedly un-randomlike.

Also, you seem to think I've singled you out. I've never mentioned you so without mentioning the other two in the bandwagon as well. The only reason you and I are talking right now is because you replied to a general post I made on the topic.

Sajin, welcome.

Lamont, claim.

[Head_Honcho]

I think the lammont case is weak but is probably going to happen. I saw the phrase over enthusiastic used to describe him and I think that's probably it. Populartajo and fishy look scummy to me. Tajo's a gut thing, fishy's the post you just cited.

Can you elaborate on your gut?

What exactly makes you think that the lammont case is weak?

When I say gut I kind of mean something I can't really articulate, but I'll try. When I read your posts I get a slight feeling that you are looking more for things that will get someone lynched than things that make them scum.

Like I said, to me Lammont reads like a townie sketching out under pressure. People get lynched a lot around here for 'classic scum tells' which can also just be defined as 'bad play', but scum come in many shapes and sizes and are not always so obvious as you would like them to be. I guess Lammont is one of those guys who is too out there and obvious for me to think he's actually scum.

[Vino]

When I say gut I kind of mean something I can't really articulate, but I'll try. When I read your posts I get a slight feeling that you are looking more for things that will get someone lynched than things that make them scum.

Like I said, to me Lammont reads like a townie sketching out under pressure. People get lynched a lot around here for 'classic scum tells' which can also just be defined as 'bad play', but scum come in many shapes and sizes and are not always so obvious as you would like them to be. I guess Lammont is one of those guys who is too out there and obvious for me to think he's actually scum.

This is so weak.

[Head_Honcho]

u r

[populartajo]

Random stage is characterized by the amount of "semiserious/not serious at all" votes. I cant speak for others but my reason to vote you was half joke (bandwagons are fun and a very potential source of information) and half agreement with Fish. Yep, it had an intention but it was still semirandom.

However, thinking that there HAS to be scum in a 4 person randomwagon in page 3 is full of fail. Where is the logic there?

Head Honcho. At this time you should have more than a gut suspicion on me. Please tell us who is scum.

[hasdgfas]

1) tajo always does this

fine, then I'll drop it. If he always does it, it's a null-tell, even if it's an anti-town action.

Second, about the random voting stage, do you at least know what I am talking about?

Vino and Lammont started attacking Fish, rolf, Korlash and me because we joined a wagon in random voting stage. What is so scummy in joining a wagon in random voting stage? Explain it please.

"RVS"(which is crap, IMO, and why I hate people using it as a defense, because it's still a real part of the game), is a great time for scum to let their guard down and do something scummy that they can then use "Random stage" as a defense in.

So whats exactly scummy in RANDOM bandwagoning Vino the way rolf, me and Korlash did?[/quote]
Is there anything to your defense other than "it was the random stage"?

[roflcopter]

hascow, please respond to this

3) if your problem is that it clues scum in on who people think are town, how on earth does that make the action scummy??

instead of ignoring it

additionally, please answer the bolded section of this

So whats exactly scummy

in RANDOM bandwagoning Vino the way rolf, me and Korlash did?

instead of putting the burden of proof on tajo

[Fishythefish]

Urgh. I take back what I said about my read on LC. On a reread, it was both an inadequate summary and not what I think.

1) His initial support for my vote on Vino, later turning into criticism of the wagon.
It’s very plausible that he did mean just that Vino’s vote was not random. However, in post 71 LC “does not like this Vino wagon at all”. This seems off given the very small amount of content in the game up to that point.

2) When questioned about arbitrary support for wagons, he justifies this by supporting Empking’s wagon for lurking (questionable) and Korlash’s for matters unrelated to this game (unquestionably bad).

3) When his criticism of Vino’s wagon is remarked upon, LC gives more game-unrelated reasoning and reverses the question to “why are you voting him?”- which is no more than a distraction.

4) He says that the idea that Vino and I were being set up for a 1-2 mislynch “very interesting”. As I’ve said, I don’t have much time for this theory, and I find LC’s following when he was under pressure another attempt at distraction.

5) I hate the attack on Tar’s case. He later justifies this as “self-defence”. Well yes, that’s exactly what it was. It just wasn’t true. Later still, he claims the reference was a humorous nulltell. I disagree vehemently.

6) The focus on Vino’s wagon (less me). It gained four votes, out of twenty five players. Many, many players on this site like to build a bandwagon early D1. The premise that it is particularly likely to have scum on it is a bizarre one.

7) The reaction to Santos. That’s not a soft claim. This looks like trying to do something, anything dramatic to deflect the wagon.

The post which Tar criticised said that there were large sections of the case I disagreed with. Basically, this is the “bandwagoning for lurking” aspect- which occupies a large amount of the actual text of the wagon.

Of the above points:
1) and 3) point to LC having a connection to Vino.
2) I don’t see as very important. I think hunting lurkers is more or less a nulltell. Attacking Korlash for a previous game is worse- it shows little concern with whether or not he is scum.
4) and 5) I think look bad.
6, 7 are LC trying to distract us from his wagon.
I like my vote where it is.

[Head_Honcho]

No, I never said anything about him convincing me. I'm saying you can't claim to have "called out scum" on day 1 unless you also recognize your failure at lynching those scum day 1 as well. If you call player A out as scum but are incapable of lynching them and end up lynching Player B, you have no real claim to fame at calling player A out. The game of mafia isn't about calling people out as scum, it's about proving they are scum and forcing everyone else to help you kill them.

And FYI I didn't lose in LYLO. Being wrong and losing are two different things. I had two super awesome townies watching my back that saved us the game. And yes, Pop had some small hand in it as well.

Kewl. Well you look super fun to play with and so I withdraw my support of your wagon.

facepalm.

Dude you are here to look for scum, not for the most boring player.

This is a good example of the attitude I get from your posting. The Lamont wagon is building and you throw some questions and criticism his way, but not really for stuff that makes him scum, stuff that makes him Doing It Wrong. Sorry if it isn't with the revolver in the conservatory enough for you.

[hasdgfas]

hascow, please respond to this

3) if your problem is that it clues scum in on who people think are town, how on earth does that make the action scummy??

instead of ignoring it

because it only helps scum.

additionally, please answer the bolded section of this

So whats exactly scummy

in RANDOM bandwagoning Vino the way rolf, me and Korlash did?

instead of putting the burden of proof on tajo

I'm planning on it. I want tajo to answer my question first.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Sorry for the delay people. I am facing personal issues right now.

I have to credit both Tar & Percy for discovering me.

Its my fault. I had no idea that I would be caught breadcrumbing.

Percy is correct, it is not a bell. It is a Tao Cup. Now notice the double-N with the first "N" being capitalized. The the verbiage about the end & the middle. That refers to where that "N" should go; after the first word and in the middle of the whole. So that brings us to:

Tao-N Cup which equals Taon Cup which equals Town Cop.

I also breadcrumbed my name. You can see the slightly altered english and take the first letters of three words in a row which spell:

H-A-T

My comic book name and link to follow.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I am Man with a Hat from:

XKCD Comics

[hasdgfas]

I am Man with a Hat from:

XKCD Comics

Do you have any flavor as to why you are a cop?

[Lamont_Cranston]

One sec let me check as I'm unfamiliar with the comic...

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well amusingly & appropriately enough, I am a 'jackass' and once a night I can break the laws of physics and peek someone.

[Korlash]

Haven't read up too much since I last posted just saw the claim and had to ask something...

One sec let me check as I'm unfamiliar with the comic...

Why would you need to be familiar with your comic to post your flavor? All you should need to be familiar with is your role PM.

More to come when I actually catch up... might be later then sooner...