Webcomic Wars Mafia: D7- Be Thankful I'm Not The Author

[Korlash]

Wow lots of Kise hate coming around... None of it I like. Can we not lynch him and take out SC? Cool, glad I could get a word in edge wise.

Seriously though, with Fishy seemingly pushing a deadline kill over a lynch and Delathi's "Well I guess Kise is the only option left" how can anyone agree with a kise lynch? Insanity...

Also Tar, while I get and understand your paranoid need to speak your mind before night falls, don't you think 4 flipped character is a little lacking in the whole "create a theory" department? You are essentially defining "lead" characters off one flip. I like theorys based on little as much as the next guy, but do you actually think trying to define what is safe to claim and what isn't necessary at this stage?

Also why was I left out of the "seven players to rule them all" saga of the post? As if I didn't have low enough self esteem already...

[Fishythefish]

Seriously though, with Fishy seemingly pushing a deadline kill over a lynch and Delathi's "Well I guess Kise is the only option left" how can anyone agree with a kise lynch? Insanity...

I made that post with (I thought?) 24 hours until the deadline. There were, realistically, three wagons which had a chance of producing the lynch in that timeframe. I asked players to vote for one of them (not necessarily Kise, who I wasn't voting at that point). How is this an argument against voting Kise?

[Vino]

The deadline was yesterday. I had opinions I've been meaning to direct at Tor but I've been expecting Gorrad to swoop in at any point so I haven't bothered. Are we under an extension?

[Fishythefish]

As most in my games have noticed, I am currently V/LA due to a broken computer. When it's fixed, I will catch up.

[Korlash]

I made that post with (I thought?) 24 hours until the deadline. There were, realistically, three wagons which had a chance of producing the lynch in that timeframe. I asked players to vote for one of them (not necessarily Kise, who I wasn't voting at that point). How is this an argument against voting Kise?

What are you talking about, I don't recall ever saying it was an argument "against voting Kise." Or are you asking how my post is an argument against voting kise?

[Gorrad]

Final Vote Count brought to you by Madame Zanzibar. "Come and see your future in my balls.".

Kise (9): Percy, Head_Honcho, Vino, Tarhalindur, Fishythefish, Sotty7, Sajin, Delathi, Riceballtail

Percy (3): SerialClergyman, Empking, roflcopter
Vino (2): Hasdgfas, Mufasa
Santos (2): SensFan
SerialClergyman (2): Korlash
Korlash (1): Kise

Note Voting (4): Sironigous, ZazieR, Tzeentch, Mastermind of Sin

With 21 alive, it's 11 to lynch.

As the second day comes to an end, things are looking grim for Kise. His comic, he claims, is the renowned fantasy comic "Dominic Deegan" which, for some unknown reason, draws wild-eyed stares from the crowd.

"Burn him alive!" The call is brought forth, and Kise is thrown into the Forum of Eternal Stench, filled with people flaming whatever they see. Soon, Donovan Deegan is reduced to ashes.

And the internet seems just a little bit dimmer for it.

Kise, Donovan Deegan of Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire, Vanilla Townie, lynched D2.

Night 2! Send night choices in ASAP. I'll deal with any replacement issues and sort out choices when my computer stops being on the fritz.

[Gorrad]

The scene you arrive at in the morning seems oddly familiar. First is the corpse of Delathi. And, well, by corpse? I mean eraser shavings. He was standing guard, you see, stopping anyone who tried to pass.

The other two were killed directly by each other. Mufasa, also known as Starship Janitor Mr. Jinx, a Cirbozoid known for his...atypical biological functions.

his cause of death is obvious. The thoroughly fried Korlash, the man behind the keys of the dreaded dwarf Flintlocke, decided that the wisest course of action was to strap a beaver to a stick and cause him severe bodily harm with it. A woodchuck, similarly electrocuted, constitutes the final corpse. Though, considering what would have become of it, this is probably more humane.

Delathi, Skull of PvP, Town Roleblocker, Erased N2
Mufasa, Mr. Jinx of Starslip, Town Doctor, Beaversticked N2

Korlash, Flintlocke of Flintlocke's Guide to Azeroth, 2-shot Hitman of the Discontinued Mafia, Electrocuted N2

D3! With Seventeen alive, it's Nine to lynch!

[Percy]

Initial thoughts:

Korlash lied about his name and comic.
"Discontinued Mafia" may be a red herring, but also might point to multiscum groups.
No-one took the bait to take both Empking and I out.
Dominic Deegan (aka Kise) was not a good character to "lynch on sight", as Tar suggested, based only off the flavour.
Erasure has been used as a kill flavour both nights, but on Night 1 we had Death Ray (presumably Vig, so no surprise it didn't show up again) and "Chuckshot", whilst last night we had "Beaversticked" and "Electrocuted". The mod said of Mufasa and Korlash:

The other two were killed directly by each other.

...which seems to suggest that Mufasa had a power that killed anyone who killed him. Hence I'm willing to put the Chuckshot and Beaverstick kills with the "Discontinued Mafia", and the Electrocution to another scum group/SK.
Empking still hasn't answered my questions, and so

Vote: Empking

until he does.
Re-reading.

[Dr. Melfi]

So, I haven't had time to read past page 10 still. Maybe next week...

[Riceballtail]

VOTE:Rofl

I still want answers.

[SerialClergyman]

Vote Percy

For those who don't remember, this post neatly sums up my position on Korlash and Percy as well as reinforces the sort of posts he was making all game. Ever since I started attacking Percy, Korlash constantly defended Percy, sometimes by attacking me. His flip is yet more evidence that

Percy is scum

.

Empking wasn't killed, and if Percy was scum, why would the scum oblige in outing one of their members? Korlash flipped scum as expected, Percy will flip scum too.

In other news, who did you recruit, Vino?

I think Korlash's fakeclaim is odd.. doesn't he run the risk of someone else having that comic/role? Should we be looking for obscure roles in the flavour claims, given they're less likely to be 'counter-flavour-claimed'? Why didn't Korlash just claim his actual flavour? Is there something specific about the flavour that tells us he's scum?

Delathi's kill was almost certainly mafia, the other two I'm not sure about. Mufasa is a lurker kill, so could be just about any faction. Korlash looked scummy as anything to me, so could be a vig, could be rival scum group, could be any other killing factions.

It seems to me that if the mafia have a hitman, then there could be multiple mafia kills each night as well.

[Vino]

Does it matter? They are BOTH DEAD.

I hate my life. I am so useless now.

[Sotty7]

VOTE:Rofl

I still want answers.

To what?

What do you think about the rest of game?

Vote Percy

For those who don't remember, this post neatly sums up my position on Korlash and Percy as well as reinforces the sort of posts he was making all game. Ever since I started attacking Percy, Korlash constantly defended Percy, sometimes by attacking me. His flip is yet more evidence that

Percy is scum

.

Empking wasn't killed, and if Percy was scum, why would the scum oblige in outing one of their members? Korlash flipped scum as expected, Percy will flip scum too.

Seeing both Percy and Emp alive today my first thought was that emp was scum and I'm a little surprised Percy didn't present that as a thought in his first post of the day. Of course there is some WIFOM involved here. The scum could have chose to leave emp and Percy alive because they see them as potential mislynches. But if Percy was telling the truth and killing emp would have killed him, why not knock off two supposed townies for one?

Another factor here is that Korlash could have simply latched onto Percy to defend, as scum often do with people not on their team. What are the odds that Korlash would be so obvious with his defense of Percy when it has been shown that the nights have multiple kills? Seems dangerous to me and maybe a little too obvious.

An iso read of Korlash is needed.

[SerialClergyman]

Vino, it may matter later. I'd like you to say, please.

Sotty, I've had it up to here with this alternate reasoning thing. People said the same thing yesterday, but when push comes to shove, Korlash was scum. Look at the way he defends - if you read in iso you'll notice he often says things like 'I agree with the case on Percy, but I think SC is scummy too for the way he's attacking him'. He was very lamely using that kind of line to distance while persuing the real agenda, a chainsaw defence of Percy.

Too obvious sounds like too townie/scummy, arguments I despise. He had motive, means and opportunity. He had every reason to try to derail the wagon, he thought he could do it subtly and with a focus on attacking me but it got pulled back into what was obviously a strong and biased defence of Percy because he kept getting questioned on it.

And the person I'm most convinced is scum has just had their innocence test provide no result and their most ardent defender flip scum.

No more chances, lynch please.

[Vino]

Korlash lied about his name and comic.

Did you even actually read the comic that Gorrad posted? It clearly shows who was using chuckshot, and that would be Korlash. This means Korlash killed qwints N1. He lied because if you actually googled "chuck shot" you would have discovered his comic. At the time though I thought the chuckshot was more vig than scum, I suppose I was wrong.

Vote: Tarhalindur

for D2 role fishing. Also while Kise was a good lynch (mainly because he wasn't me) I never did understand why Dominic Deegan was such a lynchable character. I also didn't like the conspiracy theories and the "I probably won't live until tomorrow."

Just thinking of how awesome a mason group with a doctor, a vig, and a roleblocker could have been makes me cry that it never happened. DAMN YOU SCUM! I WILL HAVE MY VENGEANCE!

SC, if it ends up mattering later then I'll say it later. It may end up mattering soon that I don't say.

[SerialClergyman]

..

Why wouldn't you say if you were town? There's a specific reason I think the town should know that may or may not come up later, and by the time it comes up it may be too late. I cannot see how it could possibly affect or disadvantage you if your claim is true to let us know which one you targetted.

[Vino]

If someone has a specific reason for me to say then I'll say. Either I'll die and flip and then the question will be irrelevant or somebody will have tracked me or watched my target tonight, and I'd be more concerned about seeing if they were lying than you are to see about if I am lying. Ultimately it does no harm for me to hold on to the information for the time being.

[Sironigous]

Back in action.

I see we mass role name claimed so...

I am Devil and Annie Jennie from the comic

The Devil's Panties

.

http://devilspanties.keenspot.com/

I have never heard of this webcomic ever... and have not read any part of it yet so I really have no idea who my character actually is. Heh.

---

Discontinued comic as mafia is VERY interesting though. Hum. Baddies for me usually doesn't mean discontinued.

@Tar - very interesting connection you found with leads. If the pattern continues, I'll believe it...

question - Flintlocke was the lead of, well, Flintlocke's Guide to Azeroth and was still more special than a mafia goon though. I'm confused if that only applies to townies. Ha.

Erasure has been used as a kill flavour both nights, but on Night 1 we had Death Ray (presumably Vig, so no surprise it didn't show up again) and "Chuckshot", whilst last night we had "Beaversticked" and "Electrocuted".

Death Ray is really most likely vig - that's what I get from reading the title of his comic.
Erasure seems like a method that's

not

from a webcomic. (lol

Vote: Gorrad

)
Chuckshot, Electrocuted, and Beaverstick all seem like mafia kill styles - I think each mafia member has a different kill method.


Well, Korlash was able to come up with a fakeclaim... Hum, probably mafia lied about their comics anyway.

offtopic: I wish Mynarski Forest was one of the comics though. [/url]

I'll be back to post more.

[roflcopter]

apologies for my extended absence. this weekend will still be insanely busy for me, but starting next week my life should return to some semblance of normality.

nameclaim business:
eve, from applegeeks
http://www.applegeeks.com/
not a comic i had heard of before this game

i'm impressed by rice's ability to not interact with anyone or anything else while he sits on his vote for me

as previously mentioned, korlash scum --> percy scum. if it wasn't readily apparent before, it should be now.

vote: percy

[Riceballtail]

i'm impressed by rice's ability to not interact with anyone or anything else while he sits on his vote for me

So, you have answers to give, and I want them. If you actually did answer for this supposed Percy case, then maybe I could look elsewhere, but otherwise I'm just going to have to look at you as being lurker scum who doesn't want to be particularly tied, but committed, to the lynch.

[Sotty7]

How can he be committed and yet not tied to the lynch? I would like to see his case as well, but RTB you have done pretty much nothing but park your vote on rolf, do you have no opinions on the rest of the game?

---

SC, I know what you are saying, I just want to look at it from all angles. Right now I agree that Percy should be the lynch today but that isn't solely dependent on his interaction with Korlash.

I'm actually still sold on Percy being a un-nightkillable SK. The erasure kill seems like SK flavor to me considering the theme here is webcomics.

[Percy]

His flip is yet more evidence that

Percy is scum

.

Actually, all it's indicative of is that Korlash is scum. Anything beyond that is worthless WIFOM. Scum buddy up to town for this very reason - to promote mislynches.

Mufasa is a lurker kill, so could be just about any faction.

Lurker kill? Nice to see you're paying attention to what's going on in this game.
Remember this?

I believe that qwints should've been protected last night, but it seems that something blocked the protection.

So, yeah, not a lurker kill, a

doctor

kill.

Seeing both Percy and Emp alive today my first thought was that emp was scum and I'm a little surprised Percy didn't present that as a thought in his first post of the day. Of course there is some WIFOM involved here. The scum could have chose to leave emp and Percy alive because they see them as potential mislynches. But if Percy was telling the truth and killing emp would have killed him, why not knock off two supposed townies for one?

Going for Mufasa makes sense as well, even if Empking is town, due to his claim.

It is evidence

consistent

with Empking scum, but I don't think it's particularly persuasive evidence

for

it. I think Empking is scum for different reasons. He was caught making some pretty suspicious statements. He dug himself into a hole of contradictions. Now he's posting nothing of substance and hoping I'll go away.

---

as previously mentioned, korlash scum --> percy scum. if it wasn't readily apparent before, it should be now.

vote: percy

1. That implication fails. The player that does the buddying deserves to be called out for it, but being buddied to is fairly null.
2. "as previously mentioned"? Sorry, this is a lie.

You called out buddying from Korlash:

so would it be accurate to say that you're strawmanning the argument against percy in order to support a vote on his most vocal attacker?

Then promised:

in a little while i will post my own version of why percy is scum. it will contain no questions, so he doesn't have to worry about answering anything else. then we can finally get around to lynching him, and once he flips scum, we can lynch korlash too.

I've been waiting on your "own version" for over three weeks now. Notice that this is "if Percy is scum then Korlash is scum".

More evidence:

scum

percy
if percy -> korlash
if percy -> rice (unwillingness to commit to a view of percy, blatant chainsaw defense)
vino (seperate from percy)

Note the direction of the implication, and that

Korlash was not on your list

.

That's it. There's really no reasoning that I can see of why "Percy scum implies Korlash scum", it's simply stated as a fact. There is

absolutely no discussion

of why "Korlash scum implies Percy scum".

So, yeah, don't say you "previously mentioned" something when you didn't.

3. It bears repeating - what original analysis have you been sitting on for this past three weeks? The "Korlash scum implies Percy scum" argument couldn't have been advanced yesterday, so what is the

actual

reason you think I'm scum? And why wasn't it worth mentioning in your first post back?

FoS: roflcopter

.

RBT's attitude towards roflcopter doesn't sit well with me either - to be more precise, his lack of attitude towards anything else.

---

Now it's time to go back through Tar's play yesterday.

As an aside, I'm seriously considering massclaim here.

I didn't like this suggestion then, though I'm open to a discussion about it today.

Dominic Deegan falls very firmly at the front of the lynch-on-sight list, and while the conclusion is a little shakier than it was yesterday - Something Positive fell on the edge of the list and came up town - it's not shaky enough for me to discard it.

Requires explanation.

2) I will explain why I consider Deegan a scummy comic claim when claims are done.

You didn't ever do this. This was your Kise votepost:

Kise's argument that just comic claiming would be "no good" is utterly, utterly wrong (and I knew that when I proposed the massclaim); while a pure comic claim would not have outed any scum from a group composed of villains from otherwise normal webcomics, it would find any scum from a scummy webcomic should they either not realize their webcomic was scummy or misclaim. (Full massclaim would stand a better chance of outing both, hence why I pushed it.)

The question is, why ignore this? Could Kise have just not realized that some webcomics were scummy? Or is Kise scum from the hypothetical scummy webcomic faction, who thought he could out the other group this way with no increased risk to himself?...

Grrr... WHATEVER!

I'm Donovan Deegan, somehow related to

Dominic Deegan

; main character of the comic we're from.

I suggest we get a nameclaim from Mufasa next, then the most suspicious players. Let them go first.

OH WAIT.

Unvote, Vote: Kise
HoS: SensFan

No mention of the theory there. You present it as self-evident, but you hadn't explained it, and you knew I had asked you about it.

I'll fully explain the flavor behind what I suspect is the second scumgroup (the one qwints could detect if he was sane) tomorrow or Saturday - the cliffs notes version is that this one is composed of scummy webcomics, not scummy characters.

Is this a theory you're still interested in? What was your reasoning yesterday?

For everybody not familiar with how this works: you should also push for MoS to claim ASAP. I'll explain why this is the correct course of action after he does so.

Are you still pushing for MoS to claim?
Your post has fairly definitive language, but you haven't backed up what you've said.
Also, as I

previously mentioned

:

It's hard for me to ascertain why I should be pushing for such a thing without knowing your reasons. I also find myself wary of your willingness to flush out information.

The primary theories I have been working with:

1) Certain webcomics are likely to compose a "scummy webcomic" faction (I've suspected this since I saw the opening flavor, and qwints's flavor reinforced that suspicion) - specifically, especially notorious comics (the kind that have a massive hatedom and get multiple posts on sites like Your Webcomic Is Bad and You Should Feel Bad). Dominic Deegan falls squarely into this category (there *is* a comic that could be considered more notorious than Deegan, but I haven't seen it claimed so far).

This theory needs re-evaluation.

2) Flavor fits poorly with roles (this is the other reason I suspect Percy is lying about his claim).

Does this theory describe everyone except for me?

3) Characters that are the lead in their comic are far more likely to be vanilla, if not certain to be vanilla (I don't have quite enough evidence to be sure of the latter conclusion - which, if correct, means Percy and MoS must be neutral or scum - but the former is a logical inference IMO).

Kise's flip seems to give greater evidence for this theory, but the Dominic Deegan question still needs addressing.

You have an unsettling expectation of trust from the playerbase. You have deferred your reasoning for a long time, and it's time to show us why we should listen to what you say.

[Kise]

Well, at least I was the first person to peg [now] confirmed scum.

You jerks, lol.

Bah.... Baka***

[Vino]

Where's Tar?

[Tarhalindur]

Okay, thoughts:

1) Was busy yesterday (keeping MtG: Parallel Universe together, among other things).

2) Original theory (reason why I pushed for massclaim) was dead as of Kise's lynch yesterday (Donovan being vanilla and nonlead of Deegan is utterly inconsistent with the hypothesis). (In retrospect, outing Vino was a mistake, albeit not a fatal one).

3) Percy's claim that I never explained my reasoning behind considering Dominic Deegan autoscum is utterly and completely wrong - in fact, I quoted the post where I explained it:

1) Certain webcomics are likely to compose a "scummy webcomic" faction (I've suspected this since I saw the opening flavor, and qwints's flavor reinforced that suspicion) - specifically, especially notorious comics (the kind that have a massive hatedom and get multiple posts on sites like Your Webcomic Is Bad and You Should Feel Bad). Dominic Deegan falls squarely into this category (there *is* a comic that could be considered more notorious than Deegan, but I haven't seen it claimed so far).

Since this theory has been disproven given Korlash's flip, there's no harm in revealing the other comic that I would have considered autolynch yesterday (

Ctl Alt Del

, whose hatedom is probably as prominent as Deegan's.)

That said, I still think one of my earlier conclusions may be correct (Elan being cop capable of detecting one faction)... I'd guess he could detect Discontinued, in which case "quality of a comic's artist" probably meant "comic's artist has enough of a work ethic to keep comic going" instead of "doesn't make a shitty webcomic".

Can't yet rule out Elan being naive or able to detect an unrevealed group, though.

3) Analysis of last night:

- We're probably not going to catch any discontinued via the name claim, since the name of the group is a big fat warning not to trueclaim comic (and I'll bet they have safeclaims, though I'm not sure if specific characters are included). We *might* be able to catch Mafia by figuring out if they're trying to claim mp
- IMO, Erasure kills make slightly more sense coming from an SK than a Mafia group, or else from a smaller faction. (If this is the case then Elan was naive).
- If that third kill was actually the result of Mufasa... that's two unexplained kills for two nights in a row. Two Mafia factions + an SK is looking increasingly implausible. Not impossible, though... wouldn't rule out Mufasa protecting Empking last night.
- Flavor for Mufasa being doc is relatively fitting for character (Korlash probably likewise); Percy's claim is less suspect on flavor grounds than yesterday. Holding out balance judgment until such time as we massclaim.

4) Massclaim is a good idea (better than yesterday, since Delathi flipped power) and I support it.

5) Thoughts on rereading so far:

- Korlash probably just ignored his buddies... the two players who appeared most closely tied to him on isolation read were Percy (possibly a scumpartner) and... myself (uh, no).
- SensFan still needs to die.
- Sironigous reads VERY strongly like he did in Majora's Mask, where he was scum.
- I currently consider Head_Honcho and MoS semiconfirmed town.

Vote: SensFan

More coming.