Webcomic Wars Mafia: D7- Be Thankful I'm Not The Author

[Fishythefish]

@Fishy: Just how long are you willing to give Percy before you think he would be a good lynch?

To clarify; if I thought Percy was very likely scum, I'd be up for his lynch now. His claims just means that it will take a bit more for me to want his lynch.
How I feel about Percy tomorrow would depend to a great extent on what happens in the night.

[Sironigous]

How I feel about Percy tomorrow would depend to a great extent on what happens in the night.

You.

Why.

Town is in NO position to lose another power role at all, especially one that relates to non-town players.

Two HoS's: Fishythefish

WIFOM is preventing me from voting; why would you softclaim like that?

[hasdgfas]

How I feel about Percy tomorrow would depend to a great extent on what happens in the night.

You.

Why.

Town is in NO position to lose another power role at all, especially one that relates to non-town players.

Two HoS's: Fishythefish

WIFOM is preventing me from voting; why would you softclaim like that?

What are you talking about?

[Riceballtail]

Town is in NO position to lose another power role at all,

A slightly less scummy way of saying that would be "Town can't afford another mislynch." Because the way I'm seeing it, the town isn't in a position to lose either a PR OR a VT.

The ONLY reason I won't vote you for this is because Rofl is playing straight to his scum meta.

HoS:Sironigous

[Sotty7]

Its not the post amount but rather the post aggressiveness of Percy. It does not match his town meta imo.

Links?

This feels like a backing away of the initial statement of taking a back seat. If you meant aggressiveness you would have said that in the first place.

Also, what Hascow said.

---

If you want to look at some aggressive townie-meta from me, check out this game of mine - Jungle Republic. If anyone would like to point out any major deviations in my playstyle between that game and this one, go ahead.

Still... Hate... That... Game...

My case against Empking is pretty much as it was in 771. He said some pretty inconsistent things. He was incredibly evasive, and used those inconsistent statements to push my wagon. He's dug himself into a hole of contradictions, and has now put his vote back on me without responding to my questions and gone back to lurking.

Yes, it's not the strongest case I've ever put together. But all Empking has contributed to this game is bizarre, inconsistent statements, ignoring questions, anti-town behaviour and pushing my wagon. Empking will ignore me if I start talking about anyone else or pushing any other wagons - just like he did in the Jungle Republic game you and I were in that I linked to above (and, for the record, I was right about Empkingscum in that game).

I went back and re-read 771 and you don't mention emp in it, citing the wrong post? Also, this is emp we are talking about, he does things like this... All the time. I'm not forgiving it at all, but the way you were talking about your emp case, you had me believing that it was something strong. It's not.

I do however get and understand your point about if your focus shifts.

Outside emp, who is next on your most scummy list?
I also asked you what you thought about SC at this point in the game.

Also, just noticed this:

Wow lots of Kise hate coming around... None of it I like. Can we not lynch him and take out SC? Cool, glad I could get a word in edge wise.

Can someone point out to me how the way Korlash treated Kise was different from the way he treated me? If Kise was still alive, I'd expect SC and rofl to be getting stuck into Kise about this, at the very least, with the same terrible justification.

This is one quote. The Percy/Korlash relationship was a lot more extensive than this. I would have thought that would be quite obvious really.

---

How I feel about Percy tomorrow would depend to a great extent on what happens in the night.

You.

Why.

Town is in NO position to lose another power role at all, especially one that relates to non-town players.

Two HoS's: Fishythefish

WIFOM is preventing me from voting; why would you softclaim like that?

Have you even been reading this game? This is pretty much the same answer Fishy gave yesterday, why no over the top reaction then? Explain how you view this a soft claim.

@RTB: What is rolf's scum meta?

[Riceballtail]

Rofl as Scum - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9599

Rofl as Town - http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10016

[Percy]

How I feel about Percy tomorrow would depend to a great extent on what happens in the night.

You.

Why.

Town is in NO position to lose another power role at all, especially one that relates to non-town players.

Two HoS's: Fishythefish

WIFOM is preventing me from voting; why would you softclaim like that?

This requires some explanation.
Are you saying that the town is in no position for me to die, given that my claim is true?
Are you referring to some other power role?
How does this constitute a softclaim from Fishy?
Why would you be afraid to vote, given that Fishy is currently voteless, if you felt that strongly about his scumminess?

Its not the post amount but rather the post aggressiveness of Percy. It does not match his town meta imo.

Links?

This feels like a backing away of the initial statement of taking a back seat. If you meant aggressiveness you would have said that in the first place.

Also, what Hascow said.

I linked the only game Sajin and I were in together.

If you want to look at some aggressive townie-meta from me, check out this game of mine - Jungle Republic. If anyone would like to point out any major deviations in my playstyle between that game and this one, go ahead.

Still... Hate... That... Game...

I still have nightmares...

I went back and re-read 771 and you don't mention emp in it, citing the wrong post?

I think Empking is scum for different reasons. He was caught making some pretty suspicious statements. He dug himself into a hole of contradictions. Now he's posting nothing of substance and hoping I'll go away.

Also, this is emp we are talking about, he does things like this... All the time. I'm not forgiving it at all, but the way you were talking about your emp case, you had me believing that it was something strong. It's not.

I do however get and understand your point about if your focus shifts.

Why do you want my focus to shift? Where do you want it to shift?
I never said that the Empking case was strong. Cases against Empking are never particularly strong, because of the way he plays every game he's in - as an anti-town lurker. I'm trying to pressure him for answers, and having been in a few other games with Empking, he seems like scum in this one. Furthermore, he's not going to post

anything

of substance to construct a case with unless someone demands that he be held accountable, hence the pressure.

Outside emp, who is next on your most scummy list?

Sajin and roflcopter, followed by SensFan. My suspicion of the first two should be well established, and I want SensFan to answer Tar's case.

I also asked you what you thought about SC at this point in the game.

He's tunnelled and (therefore) not looking at the rest of the game nearly as much as he should be, and is encouraging others to tunnel in on me as well. That said, he seems to be suspicious of Sajin's 180 and roflcopter's involvement in the death of Korlash, and yet continues to push my lynch. He wants my lynch, but he wants it done right. Also, Korlash hated him. I still think he's town.

Also, just noticed this:

Wow lots of Kise hate coming around... None of it I like. Can we not lynch him and take out SC? Cool, glad I could get a word in edge wise.

Can someone point out to me how the way Korlash treated Kise was different from the way he treated me? If Kise was still alive, I'd expect SC and rofl to be getting stuck into Kise about this, at the very least, with the same terrible justification.

This is one quote. The Percy/Korlash relationship was a lot more extensive than this. I would have thought that would be quite obvious really.

Sure, pointing that out was a little petty of me. Just thought it was worth mentioning that I wasn't the only one to be inflicted with Korlash's buddying.

[Percy]

EBWOP:

Why do you want my focus to shift? Where do you want it to shift?

These are stupid questions, because I misinterpreted what Sotty said. I believe she's saying she understands my point about what will happen if my focus shifts off him, rather than "I will understand if your focus shifts". The explanation that follows is superfluous.

Apologies, please disregard.

[Sironigous]

Ah.

@Everyone regarding post 826

dangit, misunderstood what he meant. >.>

Have you even been reading this game? This is pretty much the same answer Fishy gave yesterday, why no over the top reaction then? Explain how you view this a soft claim.

Actually I think I should reread this game again. Search function is broken so iso-ing him was very very hard to do.
When you say yesterday, I hope think you mean D2.
I guess I must've missed it because I wasn't here. >.>

A slightly less scummy way of saying that would be "Town can't afford another mislynch." Because the way I'm seeing it, the town isn't in a position to lose either a PR OR a VT.

Mm, good point - it is a LARGE GAME. I think I just overreacted seeing 5 out of 7 town kills were powerroles.

Are you saying that the town is in no position for me to die, given that my claim is true?
Are you referring to some other power role?
How does this constitute a softclaim from Fishy?
Why would you be afraid to vote, given that Fishy is currently voteless, if you felt that strongly about his scumminess?

1) Y'know, good point. Hider is a very interesting role. I guess it's only good for keeping a known town player behind. So, if you are telling the truth, then no, you shouldn't die because you are town!
2) Probably, I don't know what though.
3) I have a better idea! See below...
4) I think I still have to distinguish between large and smaller games.

On that note,

Heya Fishy! Whatcha mean by this?

How I feel about Percy tomorrow would depend to a great extent on what happens in the night.

[Sotty7]

I never said that the Empking case was strong. Cases against Empking are never particularly strong, because of the way he plays every game he's in - as an anti-town lurker. I'm trying to pressure him for answers, and having been in a few other games with Empking, he seems like scum in this one. Furthermore, he's not going to post anything of substance to construct a case with unless someone demands that he be held accountable, hence the pressure.

For some reason I thought you did say the emp case was strong. Looking back you said you strongly believe he is scum and that he will be a great lynch. That isn't really the same. I have no issue with the emp pressure, just trying to understand where you are coming from with it.

EBWOP:

Why do you want my focus to shift? Where do you want it to shift?

These are stupid questions, because I misinterpreted what Sotty said. I believe she's saying she understands my point about what will happen if my focus shifts off him, rather than "I will understand if your focus shifts". The explanation that follows is superfluous.

Apologies, please disregard.

Yup that's what I meant. Maybe I could have been clearer.

Thanks for the links RTB

[Empking]

Percy: What questions? (I'm pretty sure I asked this before with no answer from you.)

[Percy]

@Empking: Here is the full discussion we've had so far, with two themes I want to ask (and have asked) questions about.

could you explain how that is "trying to get out of the consequences of hammering the cop"?

He chose to hammer the likely cop but is now claiming to have hammer'd a guilty investigation.

"likely" cop? How was he "likely" cop?

He had a believable claim made stronger by the Elan claim.

(Apologies for quotetree)

Wait, you're saying that qwints' claim made you think L_C was

more

likely to be a cop?

Your original post was a justification for your vote on me. Your reaction seems completely bizarre. Most people seem to have assumed that qwints' claim was a counterclaim - whilst I could see how another person claiming cop wouldn't necessarily constitute a counterclaim in a large setup, to say that it made you

more

likely to believe L_C is completely bizarre. Your response:

Elan being the only cop would be unlikely.

Why?

Percy: As the point of making Elan a cop is naive speculation.

I asked why Elan being the only cop was unlikely, as you said qwints' claim made you

more

likely to believe L_C's. I don't understand how this post is even an answer. More details please.

i think Tar knows what he's talking about so I'd like the flavour of his protect.

"flavour of his

protect

"? What does that mean?

So here are two questions, the first of which you address below (in a very unsatisfactory manner). However, note that you have completely ignored the question about the "flavour" of Tar's "protect". Why do you think that Tar has a protective role to begin with?

Anyway, continuing on:

Percy; Naive speculation is more likely top happen with multiple cops.

Naive speculation happened

after

the cops died. Here is the first mention that I could find:

I strongly doubt we had two full sane cops - either one (coughElancough) was nonsane (naive Elan makes much sense) or we have multicop for multiscum. I'm leaning towards the former.

In fact, that's the only mention of naivete, except for when you said

Percy: As the point of making Elan a cop is naive speculation.

I still don't understand the point you're making. You said that qwints' claim made you more likely to believe L_C, and now you seem to be suggesting that it's because there was naive speculation. In fact, only one player speculated, and it was well after both the cops were dead. So what exactly made you believe L_C more after qwints' claim?

This is the second question I want answered.

You have said that I was scummy for hammering L_C. You go so far as to say that I hammered the "likely cop", as though I should have known that L_C was a cop after qwints' post, rather than suspecting the exact opposite. Yet you have been unable to explain to me why this was the case. More than that, you've focussed entirely on me, when it's quite clear you were the only one who (apparently) thought L_C was more likely to be the cop given qwints' claim, and others voted without any attempt at explanation after qwints claimed. You've talked about some naive speculation that never happened to try and make it sound more plausible and ignored my other questions.

To make this crystal clear, here are the questions in bullet-point form.

-Why did you think that L_C was more likely a cop after qwints' claim?
-Do you think anyone agrees with you?
-If so, who? If not, why am I the only one worthy of comment?
-Why did you mention naive speculation, when none occurred?
-Why did you ask for the "flavour" of Tar's "protect"?

---

@Sironigous: Search function works fine for me...
Also, whose power role were you worried about losing? You essentially accused Fishy of endangering a powerrole, and now you've said you don't know what you were referring to. Clarification please.

[Sironigous]

@Sironigous: Search function works fine for me...

Hey, really?
@Sironigous: Search function works fine for me...

Odd - I get this.

Sorry, but search is disabled for performance reasons.
In the meantime try google search

Also, whose power role were you worried about losing? You essentially accused Fishy of endangering

a

powerrole, and now you've said you don't know what you were referring to. Clarification please.

Hey, you got it just right!

I don't know which one I'm referring to either. It's just

a

powerrole - no specific one.

When I said "one that targets anti-town," I meant one that is more "investigative" (watcher, cop, tracker, etc.) than "protectory" (doctor, governor, etc).

I mean, when he said "find out this night," it had to be one that finds information.
I don't really see how a doctor can find out Percy's alignment and such.

I hope that makes more sense!

Yeah, I do have to reread this game for sure.

[Empking]

I answered the second question and I didn't want to know the nature of [Tar's[/b] protect. Does Tar even have a protect?

[Fishythefish]

My post about the next night is entirely about information gained from Percy's claimed hide; ie. whether he and/or his hidee dies. It was not intended to hint at me being a PR, or trusting a PR to deal with Percy, and certainly wasn't a softclaim.

[Sajin]

I still like my vote.

[Riceballtail]

I still like my vote.

Would you switch to Rofl, since he's very clearly scum?

[Sajin]

I dislike your company on that wagon.

[Tarhalindur]

First, on the setup:

1) We have pretty much confirmed multiscum; given the game size, I'd expect 9 scum overall (4 Discontinued, 4 unrevealed scumgroup, 1 SK - might also have neutrals ala Survivor or Lyncher), though 8 scum is not outside the realm of possibility (requires imbalanced scumgroups, and I would expect at least one neutral if this is the case).

This is hugely important; multiscum dynamics are different than singlescum (in particular, Selective Scumhunting is the supertell and IIoA is a weak tell, since scum in multiscum have every incentive to hunt for scum who aren't part of their group).

Also note that scum is VERY close to outnumbering town when taken together. Couple that with the number of dead power roles, and full massclaim is a very good idea.

2) Kills should correspond as follows:
- Chuckshot/Beaversticked are blatantly Discontinued kills, thanks to Korlash's flip.
- Electrocuted is likely the unrevealed faction's kill, given that this method was the missing method N1 (Mufasa claimed a protect on qwints, qwints still died, and I don't see a Mafia missing its chance to kill a cop).
- Erased is probably the SK kill, given the targets (why shoot poptajo or delathi?) and the consistent kill method.

Second scum, given the kill method, may be related to electronically created art or something similar (I'm starting to wonder if Man in Hat's investigation used to fourth wall to see if the target's comic had ended or not).

2) I'm increasingly sure that Percy AND roflcopter are scum (specifically, that Percy is Discontinued and roflcopter is from the unrevealed scumgroup).
- Percy's play has reminded me of his play in Suzumiya Haruhi since I double-checked late yesterday, and I specifically thought that Percy and Korlash seemed linked.
- Roflcopter has been looking for Korlash buddies exclusively (attacks Percy strongly and notes that hascow and Fishy are ringing his "buddy sense" - but I don't see any mention of scum that *aren't* linked to Korlash, despite the fact that he was strongly arguing that there were three scum kills last night!). THAT is a very good sign that he is, in fact, a member of that second scumgroup (Selective Scumhunting).

Other more likely than usual scum:
- hasdgfas: Intuition still says he's scum, and I've found it's a bad idea to discount my intuition even if it is sometimes wrong (see: Scotmany in Medieval, Vi in Mafia 87, Isacc in Mind Screw Gaiden for players my intuiting caught and who I decided weren't scummy when reading carefully). Given that he's been relatively noncommital (asking lots of questions, not focusing anywhere) and his interactions with poptajo late D1, I suspect he's our SK.
- SerialClergyman can only be from the unrevealed Mafia if he's not town; the question is whether rofl is buddying a townie or reinforcing a buddy.
- Sironigous reads a lot like he did in Majora's Mask, though I'm not sure which scumgroup he's most likely to come from.
- SensFan is likely Discontinued; both Korlash (confirmed Discontinued) and Percy (top suspect for Discontinued) reinforced SensFan's "Lamont is throwing **** and seeing where it sticks" comment D1, and I'm seeing Chainsaw Defense from Percy for SensFan D1 (in his TSS attacks) and classic distancing behavior towards SensFan ever since I made my case on him D2 (lots of "good case", but Percy never acts on it). If Percy flips Discontinued, SensFan is almost certainly Discontinued as well. Otherwise... I'm not sure which group he's in.

Who's town:
- MoS, Head Honcho (will not explain why yet).
- Vino (claim makes sense)

Given this:

Unvote, Vote: roflcopter

(Discontinued should be the same size as the unrevealed group at largest, so I'd rather lynch elsewhere today - either unrevealed group (closest to win condition assuming even scum split) or SK (removes a scum-controlled kill from the game).

[Empking]

What's the main Rofl point?

[SerialClergyman]

I'm sorry my activity has been down, I'm finalising the buying of an apartment so I've been incredibly busy. Normal posting to resume shortly.

[Vino]

Begrudging as I am to submit to more of Tar's direction, he's right. I think we do need to mass full claim.

[Sotty7]

Vote: Percy

I still think he is the scummiest right now. Fishy's whole “wait and see” attitude with him just makes my skin crawl. I could be convinced to vote rolf as well, but I am happier with my read on Percy right now. So that's where my vote goes.

[hasdgfas]

Tar: Asking a lot of questions is how I often play, when I feel like I have nothing to jump on.

Empking. Seriously. Read Tar's post. There's a clear main point on rofl.

Sajin: What about the people on the rofl wagon do you dislike?

[roflcopter]

i killed korlash. that much should have already been obvious. i'm not willing to claim anything further at this point.

posting from my phone right now, i'll have more when i get to a computer tonight. a full massclaim still seems like a poor plan.