Mini 824: SSBB Mafia - Over


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Post Post #625 (ISO) » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:35 pm

Post by SensFan »

Tajo, am I right in assuming Benmage wasn't Scum with you?
(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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Post Post #626 (ISO) » Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:18 pm

Post by Benmage »

I really dont think I played the world scummiest game...And our meta, Yaw's game I thought I was blatant town and most of the players there agreed. I'll talk your insults and leave it at.

To vote me where there wasn't certainty over a claimed SK would've been absurd and not of following playing to win. I'm glad you didn't and I might dislike your playstyle (if it is indeed a reflection of Yaws game) but at least respect for the player behind the screen (you) has gone up.

In retrospect you came in so late into this game. I appreciate the sub, but screw Zazier. Ditches the game, where she was maybe 1 page behind that didn't have a lot of information, and then when we get a mod replacement she refuses to play with us. I truly hope I never have to play a game with her again. I might dislike other players on the site/think some players are bad/policy lynches...but Zero respect for her.
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Post Post #627 (ISO) » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:25 am

Post by SensFan »

Just to be clear, when I say you play incredibly scummy, I'm saying that
to me
you play incredibly scummy. That could very well be as much a by-product of my scumhunting skills as your playing skills.

And you don't seem to understand that semi's claim that you were Scum did make sense. I'm not sure that 9-2-1 is balanced all that well, considering the power Town has.

And I agree with you on the Zazie thing.
(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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Post Post #628 (ISO) » Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:04 am

Post by MafiaSSK »

=D. I told you so.. Only about Zazie was I wrong.
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Post Post #629 (ISO) » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:53 am

Post by semioldguy »

populartajo wrote:dang oldguy why did you kill me?
I thought it likely there was a three-man scum team and that I needed to kill scum to have even a chance at winning. I had a strong scum read on you, so I chose you.

Out of curiosity, did you target Kdub or MafiaSSK on night two? I targeted SSK with more or less the same logic Kdub had for choosing him and was wondering why my kill flavor didn't show up since I didn't think he'd be a likely mafia kill target.
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Post Post #630 (ISO) » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:35 pm

Post by populartajo »

SensFan wrote:Tajo, am I right in assuming Benmage wasn't Scum with you?
Well, we did a bad job of distancing. But, sadly, yep, he was scum with me.
semioldguy wrote:
populartajo wrote:dang oldguy why did you kill me?
I thought it likely there was a three-man scum team and that I needed to kill scum to have even a chance at winning. I had a strong scum read on you, so I chose you.

Out of curiosity, did you target Kdub or MafiaSSK on night two? I targeted SSK with more or less the same logic Kdub had for choosing him and was wondering why my kill flavor didn't show up since I didn't think he'd be a likely mafia kill target.
IIRC, we tried to kill Kdub night 2. He reflected it to SSK. That's why the flavor shows a double kill.

Why did you have a strong scum read on me?

Ill save my final opinions of the game for when Gorrad gives the official results.
Call me Tajo.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12894
Coming summer 2010: Tajo's Starcraft Mafia.
Tajo's MagictheGathering Mafia
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Post Post #631 (ISO) » Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:02 pm

Post by semioldguy »

@tajo
Your hammer on Kdub was really scummy. It came merely three minutes after SensFan's vote. I decided you were either scum with SensFan waiting for your replaced in partner to finally place a vote; or Benmage's partner because both of you had votes on Kdub earlier with no hammer, yet you both didn't stay on very long (probably because there wouldn't be a scum-hammer-win and it would potentially implicate you both together).

You suspected benmage almost literally all game yet never voted for him once. I figured he was either your partner based on voting innocents and FoSing partner or you knew he was actually innocent and just acting scummy and didn't vote him for that reason, since if he was lynched it might look good that you weren't on a scummy townie's wagon (the latter obviously was not the case in hindsight).

Also you get off the egruntz wagon when it looks like it's going to explode but you sort of disappear when it becomes inevitable and never place your vote back on him in the mass confusion of voting and unvoting after the lynch was actually reached. For this reason I thought that you could likely have been egruntz's partner.

Basically I could see either SensFan(ZazieR) or benmage as having been your partner, but I could not see benmage and SensFan(ZazieR) being partners together.
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Post Post #632 (ISO) » Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:09 pm

Post by semioldguy »

I believed Kdub's claim, but was conflicted because I still needed him dead. With me thinking that two players left are also scum I was trying to work out how I could get that all done. What seemed like a good game to be able to pull out a win with my claim was actually not looking very good on Day Four.
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Post Post #633 (ISO) » Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:19 pm

Post by Benmage »

where is gorrad...pm time.
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Post Post #634 (ISO) » Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:14 pm

Post by Gorrad »

I will not assume everyone with blue eyes has Mako poisoning
I will not assume everyone with blue eyes has Mako poisoning
I will not assume everyone with blue eyes has Mako poisoning
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Post Post #635 (ISO) » Mon Nov 16, 2009 4:53 am

Post by populartajo »

bumpy bump
Call me Tajo.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12894
Coming summer 2010: Tajo's Starcraft Mafia.
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Post Post #636 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:40 am

Post by Gorrad »

Vote Count brought to you by Pokemon Stadium "When one stage just won't cut it anymore".
Semioldguy (2): Benmage, Sensfan

Benmage (1): Semioldguy

As Benmage and Sensfan finish off Semioldguy with style, they kick his blue body over the edge of the screen. "Some final boss", Sens says, "Tabuu may have lasted a while, but who knew he could be killed with a simple brick to the head?"

"Tell me about it", Benmage said, his cheeks already bursting with electricity. "Now remember: This is going to hurt me almost as much as it hurts you." With that and a powerful electric assault, Sensfan, Luigi, is endgamed.


Winners:
Benmage, Pikachu (Really Pichu)
Populartajo, Mario (Really Dr. Mario)
Egruntz, Marth (Really Roy)

Good game everyone! No mod notes, as I'm not the mod, but good game!
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Post Post #637 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:36 am

Post by Benmage »

Hooray. Good game all. Nice job Tajo. :roll: @Egruntz lol.
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Post Post #638 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:44 am

Post by Kirbyoshi »

Wait a minute. I wasn't in this game, but I want to know: scum in this game were characters from Melee who got the boot for Brawl?
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Post Post #639 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:48 am

Post by Gorrad »

Yup yup! Hence why they were bitter and out to get everyone.
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Post Post #640 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:49 am

Post by Benmage »

Who was semi btw, was he a NK immune SK?
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Post Post #641 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:49 am

Post by Kirbyoshi »

ook.
Gorrad wrote:
"Now remember: This is going to hurt me almost as much as it hurts you."
Classic Pichu :D
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Post Post #642 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:53 am

Post by Benmage »

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Post Post #643 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:55 am

Post by populartajo »

Woohoo, hi5 Benmage!
Call me Tajo.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12894
Coming summer 2010: Tajo's Starcraft Mafia.
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Post Post #644 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:58 am

Post by Gorrad »

MeMe wrote:
Gorrad wrote:I'm still able and willing, MeMe. And yeah, I'll see if I can pull anyone in, but if you could poke around some more as well, I'd appreciate it.

Send me what you've got, and I'll take over : D
Brilliant. I just got a response from SensFan and I've sent him ZazieR's role, telling him that his "negative zone" has already been used (will make sense when you see roles below).

If you need me to edit the first post/lock the thread for you, just PM me and I'll do it next time I log in.

Other notes received from players:
Kdub wrote:N1 and N2 I targeted MafiaSSK. N3 I targeted semioldguy.
populartajo wrote:Other things to notice:

1. The mafia has already used all his 1-shot abilities.

2. I asked Tzee for the flavor of the kills and he told me that these were just flavor.
semioldguy wrote:
Night One:

Kill: kitaori
Use Offwaves ability

Night Two:

Kill: MafiaSSK
Subspace Whip: Boxman

Night Three:

Kill: Vaya
Use Offwaves ability
Set-up in Full
Tzeentch wrote:Super Smash Bros Brawl Mafia Role PMs

Tabuu
(semioldguy)

You are
Tabuu
, the master of Subspace and the invader of This World. There seem to be some warriors trying to defend their realm, however, so you must defeat them all before you can accomplish your dastardly plans.

You are a
Serial Killer
. You have the following special abilities:

Firstly, each night you may make one Nightkill.

Secondly, you know that your onetime servant, R.O.B, is not in the game.

Finally, you have three special abilities. You may use one of these abilities each night, but you may not use the same ability two nights running.

Off Waves
: Tonight’s Nightkill cannot be meddled with in any way.
Subspace Whip
: Choose another player. That player is roleblocked tonight.
Scale Up
: You cannot be Nightkilled tonight.

You win when no other faction has any living members, whether you are alive or dead.


PM me to confirm your role, and to ask any questions you may have.

Mod Notes: -


Dr. Mario
(populartajo)

You are
Mario, of the Mario universe
… Or so it seems. In reality, you are
Dr. Mario
. You were once a Smasher, but have been tossed aside for newer, more “interesting” characters. Naturally, this annoys you, and you have teamed up with fellow ex-Smashers Roy and Pichu to take down those who made it to Brawl.

You are part of the
Ex-Smasher Mafia
, with egruntz (Roy) and Benmage (Pichu). The three of you can talk in Melee’s Final Destination at night and before the game starts. You may not talk anywhere else. Each night, one of the three of you may make one Nightkill.

You are pretending to be Mario to infiltrate This World, and as such you know Mario is not in the game. If and when you die, you will appear to be
Mario, Mafia
.

In addition, you have the following one-shot ability. As long as neither of your colleagues are using their abilities, you can use this on one night:

Medicine Pills
: You or one of your colleagues is protected from a single Nightkill attempt tonight. You can only use this on a fellow Mafioso.

You win when the only players left alive are Mafia.


PM me to confirm your role, and to ask any questions you may have.

Mod Notes: If multiple Mafia players submit special abilities, neither of them work, and neither are expended.


Pichu
(Benmage)

You are
Pikachu, of the Pokemon universe
… Or so it seems. In reality, you are
Pichu
. You were once a Smasher, but have been tossed aside for newer, more “interesting” characters. Naturally, this annoys you, and you have teamed up with fellow ex-Smashers Dr. Mario and Roy to take down those who made it to Brawl.

You are part of the
Ex-Smasher Mafia
, with populartajo (Dr. Mario) and egruntz (Roy). The three of you can talk in Melee’s Final Destination at night and before the game starts. Each night, one of the three of you may make one Nightkill.

You are pretending to be Pikachu to infiltrate This World, and as such you know Pikachu is not in the game. If and when you die, you will appear to be
Pikachu, Mafia
.

In addition, you have the following one-shot ability. As long as neither of your colleagues are using their abilities, you can use this on one night:

Spark
: You can use this on yourself or on one of your colleagues. Tonight, any player using a non-lethal ability that targets the chosen player will be roleblocked.

You win when the only players left alive are Mafia.


PM me to confirm your role, and to ask any questions you may have.

Mod Notes: If multiple Mafia players submit special abilities, neither of them work, and neither are expended.


Roy
(egruntz)

You are
Marth, of the Fire Emblem universe
… Or so it seems. In reality, you are
Roy
. You were once a Smasher, but have been tossed aside for newer, more “interesting” characters. Naturally, this annoys you, and you have teamed up with fellow ex-Smashers Pichu and Dr. Mario to take down those who made it to Brawl.

You are part of the
Ex-Smasher Mafia
, with Benmage (Pichu) and populartajo (Dr. Mario). The three of you can talk in Melee’s Final Destination at night and before the game starts. Each night, one of the three of you may make one Nightkill.

You are pretending to be Marth to infiltrate This World, and as such, you know Marth is not in the game. If and when you die, you will appear to be
Marth, Mafia
.

In addition, you have the following one-shot ability. As long as neither of your colleagues are using their abilities, you can use this on one night:

Counter
: Choose one of your colleagues or yourself. If the chosen player is lynched tomorrow, the person who places the lynching vote will also be killed.

You win when the only players left alive are Mafia.


PM me to confirm your role, and to ask any questions you may have.

Mod Notes: If multiple Mafia players submit special abilities, neither of them work, and neither are expended.


Ice Climbers
(Vaya)

You are both
Popo and Nana, of the Ice Climber universe
. You are parka-wearing twins who can climb any peak. Individually, you aren’t anything special… But together, you’ve got twice as many bodies (and mouths) as anyone else!

The Twins
: Your vote counts for double. In other words, if you vote someone, they will get an additional 2 to their votecount. You can’t split your double vote. What’s more, you aren’t that survivable; it looks likely that Nana won’t make it to the end of the game… And when she’s gone, you’ll lose your ability to double vote.

You win when the only players left alive are from This World.


PM me to confirm your role, and to ask any questions you may have.

Mod Notes: As soon as there are five players or less remaining, the player is sent a PM notifying him that Nana has finally been killed. From that point on, he does not have his double-vote. The rest of the town is NOT alerted to this.


Kirby
(Gorrad)

You are
Kirby, of the Kirby
universe. You’re the cute pink puffball who will eat anything – and if you eat something special, you become pretty special yourself! In fact, this is your single greatest asset, and you’ll need to make good use of it to drive away the Bad People who have invaded This World.

Suck In
: Each night, you may suck in one player and absorb their power. If it’s of any use, you will gain a new one-shot ability, based on their ability. You can still use Suck In, but if you do you will lose any other absorbed abilities you have. You can’t Suck In the same player more than once.

You win when the only players left alive are from This World.


PM me to confirm your role, and to ask any questions you may have.

Mod Notes: Kirby’s copied abilities are all immediately beneath the real thing in the Priority list. For example, Kirby’s Spark would go between the real Spark and Medicine Pills.

If he is blocked when using a one-shot ability, his ability will still be expended.

Here is what Kirby receives when targeting each player (Note that Kirby only receives the ability, not the character name):

Blocked: Strange, you don’t seem to have sucked anything in!
Wolf: You couldn’t eat what you most wanted to, so you’ve tried eating [other player] instead.
Tabuu: You have copied a choice of two abilities! You can either roleblock a player, or if you prefer you can protect yourself from a single nightkill.
Dr. Mario: You have copied the ability to protect people from death! You can protect one person from a single nightkill attempt.
Pichu: You have copied the ability to disrupt people! You can protect one person from all nonlethal actions for a single night.
Roy: You have copied the ability to strike back at those who attack you! If you are lynched the day after using this ability, you will strike back and kill the person who placed the lynching vote.
Kirby: You have copied the ability to eat people and copy their abilities! Uh, I guess nothing has changed… Why did you try to eat yourself, again?
Snake: You have copied the ability to investigate one player’s origins! You can choose one player, and will be informed of what game universe that player was originally from.
Ice Climbers (More than 5 remain): You have copied the ability to increase your influence! On the day after you use this ability, your vote will count for double. You cannot split your vote, however.
Ice Climbers (5 or less remain): You don’t seem to have copied anything…
Luigi: You have copied the ability to twist the dimensions! Uh, that doesn’t sound entirely safe, so let’s just toss that ability away…
Zelda: You have copied the ability to dress up as a man! Wait… That won’t help. Let’s just toss that ability away…
Samus / Lucas: You don’t seem to have copied anything…



Solid Snake
(Far_Cry)

You are
Solid Snake, of the Metal Gear Solid universe
. You’re the bandana-wearing, technology-using special, and you’re here to kick the butt of the Bad People who have invaded This World. And to do this, you will use… Your walkie-talkie!

Codec
: Each night, you may use your Codec to contact your superiors, who will provide you with intelligence about one player. Unfortunately, they don’t know enough to say if they’re good guys or bad guys, but they can say what game universe they were originally from – and that’s something, right?

You win when the only players left alive are from This World.


PM me to confirm your role, and to ask any questions you may have.

Mod Notes:

With the exception of Tabuu or himself, the message received is “Yeah, we know [player name], Snake. [He/She] was originally from the [game series] universe.”

When targeting Tabuu, Snake receives the message “Strange… This guy doesn’t seem to have come from another game universe, Snake.”

If he targets himself, due to Reflector or Negative Zone, Snake receives the message “Uh, Snake, you came from the Metal Gear Solid games, remember?”

If he is blocked, Snake receives the message “*Transmission Blocked*”

If Kirby is using Snake’s ability, he does not receive flavour. He simply receives the game universe, and if he is blocked or targets Tabuu, receives “No Result”.



Wolf
(KDub)

You are
Wolf, of the Star Fox universe
. You’re the long-time enemy of Fox McCloud and his team of mercenaries. Normally, you’d relish the chance to take down everything they hold dear, but right now you kinda like This World. You’ve still got your razor-sharp instincts, however, and if you hear something behind you… you’re gonna save yourself.

Deflector
: Every night, you must PM me the name on one player. Any abilities that target you that night will instead target the chosen player. Be warned – if you don’t send me the target yourself, you might not like the end result!

You win when the only players left alive are from This World.


PM me to confirm your role, and to ask any questions you may have.

Mod Notes: If Wolf doesn’t submit a nightchoice, a random pro-town player is chosen instead. Wolf does not learn who was randomly targeted.


Luigi
(ZazieR)

You are
Luigi, of the Mario universe
. You’re the younger twin brother of Mario, who has overshadowed you his entire life – it was him who rescued Princess Peach, he was the one that Bowser declared his nemesis, and where were you when he went on holiday to Delfino? Sitting in a haunted house, vacuuming up ghosts! The frustration from all this has built up inside you, and one of these days, it’s going to come out…

Negative Zone
: One night in the game, you can use your Negative Zone. On the turn you do that, all non-lethal night actions that night will be automatically redirected to the person using the ability.

You win when the only players left alive are from This World.


PM me to confirm your role, and to ask any questions you may have.

Mod Notes: -


Zelda
(MafiaSSK)

You are
Zelda, of the Legend of Zelda universe
. You’re a beautiful princess and the bearer of… hang on…

Wait, sorry, you are Sheik, the last of the Sheikah, the ancient tribe tasked with guarding the Hylian Royal Family. But underneath the traditional Sheikah clothes, you’re really Princess Zelda. You created this disguise to allow yourself to hide from Ganondorf during his seven-year reign, to prevent him from accessing the Triforce of Wisdom that is in you.

Transform
: You start the game as Princess Zelda. Each night, you can choose to transform from Princess Zelda to Sheik or vice versa.

You win when the only players left alive are from This World.


PM me to confirm your role, and to ask any questions you may have.

Mod Notes: The only impact of this is to change what the death scene reveals Zelda to be. It’s something of a Napoleon role, in that it’s hinted that there’s an effect but there isn’t. Zelda starts as Sheik.


Samus
(Kitoari)

You are
Samus Aran, of the Metroid universe
. You’re a legendary bounty hunter, nemesis of the Space Pirates, bane of the Metroids, and three years’ running Hottest Power-Armoured Ball-Morphing Bounty Hunter – though admittedly, you made that one up yourself.

Vanilla
- You have no abilities.

You win when the only players left alive are from This World.


PM me to confirm your role, and to ask any questions you may have.

Mod Notes: -


Lucas
(Boxman)

You are
Lucas, of the Mother universe
. You’re a diminutive psionic child. You’re not as confident in your abilities as the legendary Ness, and you need to develop your abilities before you’ll be able to use your natural talent to help. Of course, to do that, you’ll need to survive…

Vanilla
- You have no abilities.

You win when the only players left alive are from This World.


PM me to confirm your role, and to ask any questions you may have.

Mod Notes: -


Priority List:

Off Waves
Negative Zone
Deflector
Subspace Whip
Spark
Medicine Pills
Scale Up
Tabuu Kill
Mafia Kill
Codec
Suck In
Counter
Transform

As mentioned above, Kirby’s copied abilities come immediately after the standard version of the ability.

Powers only take effect if the person using them is alive at the time it goes off.
I will not assume everyone with blue eyes has Mako poisoning
I will not assume everyone with blue eyes has Mako poisoning
I will not assume everyone with blue eyes has Mako poisoning
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Post Post #645 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:11 am

Post by Kdub »

I thought I played pretty bad this game, but I guess I feel a bit better knowing that 3 out of the other 4 players were scum on the last day. That was pretty much impossible to win. I should have stayed on Ben on D3. Oh well, GG guys.
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Post Post #646 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:12 am

Post by SensFan »

That's what I get for letting people get away with scummy play.
(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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Post Post #647 (ISO) » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:47 pm

Post by Tzeentch »

I feel I should pop in with a few design notes.

Firstly, I must apologise to everyone about the whole flaking thing. I enjoyed designing this game and wanted to see it through to the end, but unfortunately, a few days after finally having the Internet installed, my housemate's computer (which I was using) got a very nasty virus and prevented me from going online. All I had was my mobile, which alas did not allow me to do decent votecounts or even to change my sig. Typically, I finally got a computer of my own two days after being replaced as mod - and rather than PM MeMe and Gorrad explaining the situation, I decided to back down and just read.

This did have one potential impact - ZazieR never used Negative Zone, which concerned me when I saw Sens claiming it had been used in thread. Not wanting to interfere in case this was a gambit, I sent Gorrad a PM alerting him to this fact, and decided to leave it up to him what to do.

This game was designed to test assumptions (with no true Cop and the only Doc a Mafioso) and to try and make sure people couldn't play on the assumption everything would go to plan at night (with fully half the players either able to manipulate night abilities or having abilities which couldn't be predicted).

That was part of the reason I tried to make the rules as clear and as unambiguous as possible in terms of ability ordering - I really did not want to end up in a position where I didn't know exactly how to rule a combination of effects. For the record, Off Waves was first because of how powerful it is in-game, and Negative Zone was second both because it messed everything else up (so had to go before them) and because it is a Final Smash, so should have higher priority (in my mind)

There are some things I was umming about until the last day - in particular, whether to make the Mafia show as the Melee or Brawl characters after death and whether to provide the safeclaims for them. In retrospect, I should have hinted at the option of claiming the character they're clones of but made them officially the Melee characters - it would have led to a nics tension between claiming the safe claim or faking a new one from a universe that wasn't in Brawl (such as Sonic).

I was also quite careful with my allocation of characters - things like Wolf's presence instead of Fox's or Falco's, as well as Luigi and Mario being the only two from the same universe, and even Tabuu's safeclaim of R.O.B as a way to justify Snake's investigation result.

Lastly, I must say that the last day was a riot to watch from my position - I kept thinking of the potential situation where there was a No Lynch, Tabuu used Subspace Whip targeting Pichu and sending a kill to Pichu as well, Pichu chose to kill Tabuu, but Luigi used Negative Zone to reflect the Whip resulting in Tabuu being blocked and Pichu ultimately winning.

I apologise again for the connection issues, and I can understand how frustrating it must have been for you all. I hope that, despite that, it was a reasonably enjoyable game.
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Post Post #648 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:05 am

Post by semioldguy »

After killing Vaya I knew that it was a mistake. I didn't really think through the possible four and five player situations very clearly in relation to my advantages and disadvantages even though I knew it would be likely that scum would have killed Vaya.
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Post Post #649 (ISO) » Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:34 am

Post by SensFan »

For the record, I was indeed told that my ability had been used.
(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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