Big Brother Mafia - Town wins!

[LlamaFluff]

Oh. I thought you were scum in that game when I made that post. Afat and I had already assumed a second scum group or SK.

Well it still is the only time ive actually seen you use this arguement before, and its the same basic multiple scum team setup. This could actually be an identical situation where you are scum and are thinking im other scum.

[Kmd4390]

How is it any different from me being town who thinks you are scum?

[LlamaFluff]

How is it any different from me being town who thinks you are scum?

Im not too sure if you have made that move when you have been town. Its not really a strong correllation, but its there. Just kind of struck me as a 'huh' situation.

[Kmd4390]

I'm not sure I've ever suspected you as town.

[LlamaFluff]

I'm not sure I've ever suspected you as town.

When your push mirrors the play as scum though its noticeable. Even as survivor you pushed me more on just gut.

[pablito]

This is the host just saying hi. Felt like commenting a bit and asking questions to the houseguest.
Anyone feeling safe this week besides the HOH? Do you think the either scum team could win the million dollars?
Also I'm considering reducing time so the game doesn't drag but if everyone is good with the 7 days discussion followed by 7 days to vote to evict I will leave it be.

Good luck houseguest

Whether or not I feel safe, is not the issue. It should be whether I think the noms will lead to the best situation possible for the town, even if it means I have to go up as well.

I think it's a lost cause for the chenbot. To win, the chenbot has to be in a F3 and win. I just don't see that it's likely with so much information on sly and sironigous who both had interesting interactions with others.

I haven't had time to look at llama's iso or hewitt's either. don't know if I have the time. but at minimum, I will at least skim those posts and try to write something.

[hewitt]

Guys, I'm pretty sure Pablito is scum. Pablito, Snow, and Llama are out remaining scum. How do we want to do this? If Snow goes up, she'll be evicted for sure. If we evict her today, are we going to be able to evict Pablito and Llama in the future or should I nominate them today? Kast, if I did that, would you be using the coup?

I disagree. I don't get a scum vibe from pablito at all, he's the one player who I'm pretty damn sure isn't a part of any scum team.

^I'd support your idea, Llama, and I'd vote to evict Snow.

I would also vote to evict Snow Bunny because I'm much more sure that she's the last remaining Chenbot than I'm sure of Llama being a Producer.

@Probable Producer-
Hewitt is probably AM's buddy. Of all AM's interactions, the clearest tie is with SF. Hewitt has also had consistency problems with inexplicably adding and dropping players from his suspicion lists (including AM and saber/BV), pretty much in direct relation with how the town as a whole felt about those players; and ultimately he repeatedly abandons his "suspects" for a game mechanic nomination.

To note, the only point where Hewitt doesn't follow the town is his self contradictory attacks on me where he indirectly calls me scum, but refuses to directly state it. His attempts to slip by on the technicality that he never directly calls me scum or says "I want to evict Kast" are themselves pretty scummy.

The whole chain of crap logic coming from Hewitt is pretty ridiculous:
-Attack Kast for having Coup (fearmongering)
-Attack Kast for "scummy" posts (ad hom, straw men, crap-logic)
-Say he doesn't think Kast is scum (technicality)
-Wants to Nominate Kast anyway (even after it is impossible for his doomsday scenario to come true)

Llama is next most likely, though this is a big drop from Hewitt. I like Pablito's analysis regarding AM-Llama, but I don't think it is anywhere near as strong as AM-Hewitt.

I actually haven't had any consistency problems with my scum list in the slightest. Snow Bunny has been my #1 since pretty much Day 1 and animorpherv was right behind at #2 or #3 pretty much the whole game too. So no, there were no consistency issues at all. And considering I was the first player to suspect Snow Bunny and build a case on her I wouldn't quite call that following the town.

I don't get what your whole self-esteem issue regarding you thinking I want you evicted is all about. You're in the lower half of my middle of pack list. You have been this entire game. In a Snow Bunny or bv nomination against you I would vote to evict the other two. I'm pretty sure I've also made that clear. I don't understand where your confusion is stemming from, but it's pretty ridiculous.

I never attacked you for having the Coup, I want it flushed out because I don't trust you or any other player with it. Again, I've made that very clear. These are all things I've made SUPER clear and you've refused to see it/attempted to twist everything around. And it isn't working...at all. You can't twist things around in a game where everybody can go back and check and see oh yeah well hewitt did make all that clear.

[hewitt]

Guys, I'm pretty sure Pablito is scum. Pablito, Snow, and Llama are out remaining scum. How do we want to do this? If Snow goes up, she'll be evicted for sure. If we evict her today, are we going to be able to evict Pablito and Llama in the future or should I nominate them today? Kast, if I did that, would you be using the coup?

I disagree. I don't get a scum vibe from pablito at all, he's the one player who I'm pretty damn sure isn't a part of any scum team.

^I'd support your idea, Llama, and I'd vote to evict Snow.

I would also vote to evict Snow Bunny because I'm much more sure that she's the last remaining Chenbot than I'm sure of Llama being a Producer.

@Probable Producer-
Hewitt is probably AM's buddy. Of all AM's interactions, the clearest tie is with SF. Hewitt has also had consistency problems with inexplicably adding and dropping players from his suspicion lists (including AM and saber/BV), pretty much in direct relation with how the town as a whole felt about those players; and ultimately he repeatedly abandons his "suspects" for a game mechanic nomination.

To note, the only point where Hewitt doesn't follow the town is his self contradictory attacks on me where he indirectly calls me scum, but refuses to directly state it. His attempts to slip by on the technicality that he never directly calls me scum or says "I want to evict Kast" are themselves pretty scummy.

The whole chain of crap logic coming from Hewitt is pretty ridiculous:
-Attack Kast for having Coup (fearmongering)
-Attack Kast for "scummy" posts (ad hom, straw men, crap-logic)
-Say he doesn't think Kast is scum (technicality)
-Wants to Nominate Kast anyway (even after it is impossible for his doomsday scenario to come true)

Llama is next most likely, though this is a big drop from Hewitt. I like Pablito's analysis regarding AM-Llama, but I don't think it is anywhere near as strong as AM-Hewitt.

I actually haven't had any consistency problems with my scum list in the slightest. Snow Bunny has been my #1 since pretty much Day 1 and animorpherv was right behind at #2 or #3 pretty much the whole game too. So no, there were no consistency issues at all. And considering I was the first player to suspect Snow Bunny and build a case on her I wouldn't quite call that following the town.

I don't get what your whole self-esteem issue regarding you thinking I want you evicted is all about. You're in the lower half of my middle of pack list. You have been this entire game. In a Snow Bunny or bv nomination against you I would vote to evict the other two. I'm pretty sure I've also made that clear. I don't understand where your confusion is stemming from, but it's pretty ridiculous.

I never attacked you for having the Coup, I want it flushed out because I don't trust you or any other player with it. Again, I've made that very clear. These are all things I've made SUPER clear and you've refused to see it/attempted to twist everything around. And it isn't working...at all. You can't twist things around in a game where everybody can go back and check and see oh yeah well hewitt did make all that clear.

I don't really understand why Llama seems to be offering himself up as a nominee. The only reason I could see a floater doing that would be if they're confident they're going up against scum and they're doing it to get scum evicted. And Llama's not confident that he's not going to be evicted...so this doesn't make any sense to me.

[hewitt]

Whoa oops double post except the second one has an extra paragraph at the end.

[Kast]

@Mod-
I don't see myself getting evicted today or tomorrow.
I don't see chenbot scum team winning this game.
If Llama or Hewitt is Producer, then I don't see Producer scum team winning this game either.

Having 2-3 players who are universally or near universally recognized as probable town makes a town win extremely likely given the lack of NKs.

@Hewitt-

Snow Bunny has been my #1 since pretty much Day 1 and animorpherv was right behind at #2 or #3 pretty much the whole game too.

This is a blatant lie.

Your initial suspect was Zwet. SB was only a conditional suspect if KMD was scum.
You then added Saber as next after Zwet and SB third.
You admit that your "suspicion" of SB is due to active lurking (which you think scum would try to do in this game). This is opposed to Saber/Zwets/AM who you thought were actually scummy/anti-town.
As for your actual replacement nomination, you completely dropped SB and only listed Zwet/Saber.
You agree with Llama (your buddy?) that AM/Zwet/Saber should be evicted.
You post several times with minor suspicions, not once mentioning SB.
Then you beg that Llama not be nominated and that one of Saber/Zwets/AM be nominated.
You don't mention SB again until you name your picks if you were HoH. Sly is unambiguously your first choice against a pawn picked from Saber/Zwet/SB (note SB is LAST and now that you are out of danger your buddy AM has disappeared from your list).
In your answer to the HoH application form, you again leave SB completely out and instead claimed Sly and Saber.
Even after you were picked as HoH, you did NOT have SB as your top suspect. You directly stated Sly (confirmed) and Saber (unconfirmed) as your top suspects, with AM on similar footing with Saber.
SB resurfaces as an eviction candidate (and saber mysteriously disappears from your list). However, you admit that both SB and Sironigous are not being seriously considered yet.
SB's response wasn't satisfying to you and you finally raised her to top of your list.

Leading up to my nominations go point out where I stated that I was more likely to nominate animorph.

Reading through your posts in iso, it's pretty clear that SB is

not

your target until

immediately prior

to your nomination. Out of the blue, you post that Sir or SB should post more or they will BECOME real targets. SB responds and you say you will be nominating her. Then you nominate. It's not a long process or a consistent suspicion. You even wait until someone else (kmd) votes for SB before giving an actual explanation for your nomination, and then the explanation is just that you agree with what KMD posted (SB was actively lurking and not scum-hunting).

I pointed this out before, although didn't pull out all the relevant links (just key inconsistencies). The post record is all there. The sudden SB nom was probably distraction/defense to keep AM out of the spotlight.

[hewitt]

If you say so Kast. Reading through myself in ISO it's pretty clear that I've been suspicious of Snow Bunny and that she's my #1 most likely to be scum for quite a while. That's pretty much fact, no matter how you try to twist and turn it.

[Kast]

@Hewitt-
To be clear, you are ignoring what the actual posts say in favor of what you want them to say?

I have never stated that you were never suspicious of SB and that she is not currently your #1. You are using a straw man to hide the inconsistencies in your suspicion lists and nominations.

[hewitt]

I'm not doing anything at all. I'm going to sit back and let you run your "fear-mongering" and "ad hom" and "crap logic" cases on me because they don't mean anything and don't prove anything. Instead, I'm going to attempt to figure out what you're trying to distract from.

[Kast]

I don't get what your whole self-esteem issue regarding you thinking I want you evicted is all about.

Do you enjoy making things into personal attacks? The comment about a "self-esteem issue" is a completely unnecessary personal remark. The ad hom is not helpful.

Also, you are using the ad hom to hide from addressing my point. It is inconsistent to nominate someone who you are not suspicious of. Your repeated nominations of me despite claiming that you never explicitly called me scum are more instances of your inconsistency.

You don't even have your fear-mongering excuse anymore, yet you continued to call for my nomination at the beginning of D5. Very scummy.

[hewitt]

I don't know what reason you would claim I want to evict you would stem from other than paranoia which is a branch of not believing you're a good enough player to do anything but throw crap, and that's not my fault. The paranoia about me nominating you if I get HoH is ridiculous because you won't be evicted. Like, I don't understand what you don't see about this, you have the Coup.

And clearly explain how me nominating you is scummy. Because you've so far failed to do so.

[Kast]

It is inconsistent to nominate someone who you are not suspicious of.

You don't even have your fear-mongering excuse anymore, yet you continued to call for my nomination at the beginning of D5. Very scummy.

Nothing ambiguous about those statements. Please clarify what you are having trouble understanding.

[Kast]

I don't know what reason you would claim I want to evict you

You nominated me for eviction. That's a pretty strong reason to claim you want to evict me.

Actions speak louder than words. You may not explicitly say you want to evict me (and may even claim otherwise), but your actions (actual votes for HoH nom) show otherwise.

[hewitt]

Snow Bunny is going to be evicted soon anyways so it doesn't matter if I nominate her or somebody else does. If I get tapped as HoH next it'll be super harmful to the town because few other players have been able to make power plays and have been content sliding under the radar, which includes yourself. So me essentially crowning you HoH through the Coup will give the rest of us great insight on you and your nominees. It's a great benefit to the town.

And the fear-mongering is just stupid. Flat-out stupid. I'm going to call a spade a spade, it's a dumb, dumb, dumb argument you have against me. Let me just say it again unless anybody didn't get that. It's stupid.

[hewitt]

You nominated me for eviction. That's a pretty strong reason to claim you want to evict me.

I tried really hard to not resort to the caps...

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET EVICTED. WHAT IS NOT REGISTERING THROUGH YOUR HEAD HERE? YOU HAVE THE COUP, YOU WILL NOT BE EVICTED.

Ugh, I hate it when people drive me to this level. Usually this is reserved for zwets/Empking.

[Kast]

Calm down please.

Obviously I won't get evicted if I use the Coup. There is no reason to force me to use the coup. I've been completely transparent with my suspicions and intent regarding the Coup usage.

Also, are you attempting to distract from post 1534?

[hewitt]

What about it? It really doesn't show anything that I either A) didn't already know (I mean duh, I posted all those posts) and B) feel the need to respond to. You're using wording to your advantage to try to prove a "point" that is moot. Excuse me if I didn't feel the need to inform you of exactly who my exact ordering of my suspect list was this entire game.

And it's extremely funny that you're attacking me for this when I'm probably the player in the game who actually has kept the rest of the game clued into my thought process the most. And I haven't strayed from it once. And yet you're attacking me over bv and Crazy, who rarely do anything to let the rest of the game know where their heads are at. Llama, who's acting like a complete wild card right now. And Kmd who didn't give much hint that he was going to nominate Crazy and Paltry before he did.

So why target me? Oh wait, I remember why now. It's because I "threatened" forcing you to use the Coup. And you got to take me out, because any "threat" to you is a threat to you win the right? Thought so.

[Kmd4390]

Nominate Llama and Pablito

Snow is definitely not making it to endgame. We know this. I'm not wasting my time on her. Kast has said he isn't using the coup if I put up these noms. I think I'm nominating both of the remaining producer scum, so I don't really care who goes. Personally, I'd prefer Pablito because he has a better chance making it to endgame than Llama does, but I'm not complaining if Llama goes, which is what I expect to happen.

[hewitt]

This is an easy vote for me.

Vote: Llama

I definitely think it's much more likely that Llama is Producer scum than pablito is. I suppose it's possible that they're both scum but I really don't see pablito being scum, in either faction.

[Kast]

So why target me?

I target you because a confirmed scum's posts (AM) implicate you as his buddy, and the inconsistencies in your suspicion list support this pairing (and don't make sense otherwise).

Your strong desire to remove the Coup from play is consistent with Hewitt as scum. Paired with a claim that you don't think the Coup holder is scum, and there is no reason for town-Hewitt to try and remove the Coup (plenty of reason for scum-Hewitt).

I'm not giving Crazy or Pablito or KMD a hard time because their actions thus far don't implicate them as scum. Your argument amounts to "why do you attack Hewitt for being scummy, but don't attack others for being pro-town". That makes no sense at all.

[Kast]

Also,

Vote: Llama