A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[MagnaofIllusion]

I have a Q for everyone wagoning CMAR. That is, have you done a sitewide ISO on this player especially in games like ''go play in traffic''? This is looking suspiciously like a policy lynch. How are you distinguishing scum-CMAR from town-CMAR in this situation?

Why does a player’s behaviour in this particular game warrant the need to Meta him? Scummy behaviour is scummy behaviour. Your defence of CMAR invoking tainted phrases like “policy lynch” is worth noting for the future.

I suggest we give him a list of 5 scummy scums that need killing and let him choose off that list. vezopiraka is obv on that list

Directing his kill seems like a reasonable suggestion. Who is going to provide the list of 5 scummy players?

And Percy, again, don't bother saying anything to me unless you actually prove something instead of just stating it.

Is there anything Pro-Town about this statement? It’s at best childish. If you are serious that you think that Percy is mis-representing you or outright lying in his statements regarding you why don’t you demonstrate it yourself, with “proof”?

I agree with the reasons given by others that his claim is probably not true. If he flips town, we'll know that Raivann is probably scum. If he flips scum we'll know that Raivann is probably town.

Your flip conjecture here ignores the possibility of a multi-scum environment or Raivann as a potential SK. Any reason for that?

As it was said before, if CMAR flips scum, Raivann is obvscum

Please elaborate, given the potential multi-scum elements I mentioned to Dana above.

By the way, guys, I have a NICE catch on CSL. I'll give him one more day to answer my questions before I say what it is.

Will the ‘catch’ be rendered void based on a proper response from CSL? If not why bother to hold onto the information? If so please make sure you share before deadline.

Hey, guys! We have about thirty-six hours before the deadline, and Budja is now a lynch option again. Who's willing to change back to the player they actually suspected?

If you are wanting to basically start a bandwagon from scratch why isn’t Richard a viable lynch option also? You assert yourself that his claim conflicts with Riavann’s. Also, Budja didn’t get to L-1 as Richard did. It seems more likely to re-assemble Richard’s wagon than to reassemble Budja’s with additional votes.

He's been making scummy posts. I'll get to fully analysing him tomorrow, if no one hammers. (If a hammer happens before I get to it, the player who did is scum)

So you are going to wait to analyze CMAR until the Day of deadline? If you seriously believe CMAR to be scum you should be doing it ASAP to make sure Town has sufficient time to digest your analysis.

Furthermore, threatening that anyone who hammers is scum within 48 hours of deadline is at best anti-town.

Be more specific please. Do you have any limitations? What about flavour?

BTW, someone should unvote just to be safe, but a clear wagon should remain evident. Raivann shouldn't be off the hook because of a vig claim.

The irony here is palatable. I note that you haven’t posted for two days but managed to respond to Raivann’s claim in 7 minutes. Has nothing else that’s happened since your last post been worth mentioning?

[Axelrod]

You know the vanilla role PM is included in the OP so lets not get carried away with syntax analysis here

I know i was just opposing a CMAR lynch awile back, but im wavering in the face of his recent posts

I'm not analyzing "syntax" as much as possible game mechanics. This game is called "A Clash of Kings." We've already had one "King" full-claim, and another soft-claim. Thematically, it doesn't make a lot of sense that all these Kings can win together, though it's certainly

possible

. They could represent multiple Mafia groups. They could also be roles with some other "Win Condition" attached to them - Be the Last King standing, etc, etc.

LynchMePls noted that Richard didn't specifiy his Win Condition when he claimed. That could simply be because we are to assume his Win Condition is the general one posted in the opening post, could also be an oversight. Could

also

be that he's got something "else".

[LimMePls]

The irony here is palatable. I note that you haven’t posted for two days but managed to respond to Raivann’s claim in 7 minutes. Has nothing else that’s happened since your last post been worth mentioning?

It is clear that Richard is lurking in this thread. Add this to the whole mountain of reasons he is scum, and his complete unwillingness to do anything helpful with the town. Even if there wasn't a fairly large number of reasons to lynch him, he'd still be a good lynch because he refuses to contribute. If nothing else we wouldn't have to go round and round every day about Richard scum. His claim is provable... by lynching him.

As far as I'm concerned CMAR can diaf too. His "oh ya I forgot about this thread" post after the server change followed by his most recent all caps post is simply laughable. IMO CMAR and Richard need to die, one by lynch and the other by vig.

[CSL]

CMAR does not post alot. Matter of fact, he has three post within 5-8 days between each other. Also, the majority of his posts revolve around Richard, then as soon as he claims, he makes two posts, then doesn't post for 8 days. If he flips town, I am seriously considering rereading the thread in it's entirety.

Overall, all he did was build a case on Richard which was dispelled after the claim, then hides. He needs to go, now.

[Rifka Viveka]

Im thinking we lynch richard for a win-win. If he is scum, yay. If he is telling truth, vig blows someone like CMAR up

[LimMePls]

^^This.

[xvart]

There was probably more, but what's wrong with getting a read off one post? I do it quite often with a fair amount of accuracy.

Okay. Now what one post gives you a town read of danakillsu?

-CMAR is on 9 votes. Raivann is on 7. And yet you leave your vote on Budja, saying "a lynch on CMAR is better than NL".

Right now

is the time to be pressuring Raivann or pushing the Raivann wagon over the CMAR wagon, rather than throwing up your hands, sitting out and pouting about it. You have never had any conviction behind your Raivann read, and it shows. Same goes for your CMAR read.

Solid catch there.

@dana

- any comment on this assessment?

unvote
vote raviann

Everyone from CMAR wagon switch here. I don't want this day to end in a no lynch

Obv fakeclaim.
You were voting to raise CMAR.
I don't want to lynch a vig now.
If CMAR flips scum raviann should be obv scum.

Someone asked who I believe scum.
I believe both of them are scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CMAR

I'm really starting to get a scummy vibe off of vezokpiraka. Vezo - why is it so obvious? And if it is so obvious it is obviously fake, why did you switch your vote?

unvote vote:Budja

I don't know that Richard's claim is conflicting, could someone please explain that to me?

The gist of it seems to be that it's implausible that there's a full vig and a one-shot vig on the same alignment. I don't think it's impossible but yeah, now that I think about it, it would make more sense if one of the claims was false, or if Richard's claim is true too but he actually belongs to a Renly-based faction.

Eagerly awaiting whatever CMAR has to say for himself, although I doubt it will make a difference at this point.

I could see it as town having a full vig with the other factions having limited vig powers since there is probably multiple non-town factions (I say non-town because as someone mentioned there might be a faction that has an alternative win condition but is not anti-town, which I hadn't thought about. I don't think this is likely, unless it is a very small faction).

Eagerly awaiting CMAR's post and claim.

Potential vig targets: CMAR, Richard, danakillsu, vezo

xvart.

[I doubt it]

Im thinking we lynch richard for a win-win. If he is scum, yay. If he is telling truth, vig blows someone like CMAR up

Good point. The only question is, can we get 14 votes on Richard in time? I don't want the day to end on No Lynch, but if the Richardwagon picks up I'll hop on.

[Axelrod]

How can anyone be seriously talking about lynching someone other than CMAR after his last post?

Really?

Like, if he had actually made

another

post after his alleged "re-reading" and that post contained a decent claim and some semblance of Townish thought,

maybe

. But here we are, hours later and...nothing? And people want to push

more

for Richard?

[LimMePls]

Im thinking we lynch richard for a win-win. If he is scum, yay. If he is telling truth, vig blows someone like CMAR up

Good point. The only question is, can we get 14 votes on Richard in time? I don't want the day to end on No Lynch, but if the Richardwagon picks up I'll hop on.

It's gotta start somewhere. Be a man (woman?) and help us get it going. Sitting around waiting for it to happen will never make it happen.

[LimMePls]

How can anyone be seriously talking about lynching someone other than CMAR after his last post?

Really?

Like, if he had actually made

another

post after his alleged "re-reading" and that post contained a decent claim and some semblance of Townish thought,

maybe

. But here we are, hours later and...nothing? And people want to push

more

for Richard?

CMAR can die too.

[RichardGHP]

Beric Dondarrion,

Innocent Aligned

My bolding. Something that was missing from Richard's claim, I'd like to point out.

Jesus, does it really matter? I didn't put it in there for two reasons. One, because that would be verging on quoting, and two, because when someone claims (unless they outright claim scum), it's generally assumed that they're claiming a townie role, even if they don't include a wincon or whathaveyou.

No, you shouldn't be off the hook. Claiming a PR is NOT a free pass out of a lynch.

Needless to say - you are not the lynch for today, but you definitely are not clear.

Well, aren't you a hypocrite?

No?

Lynch me if you must, but for the love of God don't do it based on either of the two quotes above, nor on the improbability of two innocent-aligned vigs. That would just be horrible and inexcusable play, no matter what your alignment.

[Axelrod]

So, Richard, I take it you are not claiming anything "extra" with regards to your Win Condition. Nothing about being the Last King Standing? Nothing about any of the other Kings at all?

[I doubt it]

How can anyone be seriously talking about lynching someone other than CMAR after his last post?

Really?

Like, if he had actually made

another

post after his alleged "re-reading" and that post contained a decent claim and some semblance of Townish thought,

maybe

. But here we are, hours later and...nothing? And people want to push

more

for Richard?

If Richard's claim is to be believed, we'll probably have a vig kill even if Raivann gets roleblocked or something, and we're not short on people who need to die. If he's lying we got rid of scum. Win-win as Rifka Viveka said.

Good point. The only question is, can we get 14 votes on Richard in time? I don't want the day to end on No Lynch, but if the Richardwagon picks up I'll hop on.

It's gotta start somewhere. Be a man (woman?) and help us get it going. Sitting around waiting for it to happen will never make it happen.

I don't want the CMAR wagon to evaporate and then be left scrambling with the deadline looming. But I suppose you have a point there.

Unvote

Vote: RichardGHP

[vezokpiraka]

I said fake claim cause I thought he was scum with CMAR. After what axel said I come to think I might be wrong.

Anyway. This is the only way to prove it.

unvote
Vote Richard

[Mikujin]

I said fake claim cause I thought he was scum with CMAR. After what axel said I come to think I might be wrong.

Anyway. This is the only way to prove it.

unvote
Vote Richard

How the

hell

does voting Richard help prove Raivann is or is not scum with CMAR?

[Thor665]

You people need to stop exploding the thread like this, I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever catch up (currently I'm on Page 17 - I'm slow, I suck, I know).

I'm really not liking vezopiraka's play either now or then, it almost seems too sadly obvious to be scummy (take what cheese with this wine you will) but his constant flipping around, lack of explanations on his suspicions, and desire to manage some vote, any vote, without any seeming preference just rubs me in very unpleasant ways.

I now see why someone joked about my CMAR read as now I've gotten to that unvote/soft claim thing. I agree with everyone who has commented about his most recent post as well, it was a non functional post. I still don't particularly want him lynched right now.
Mikijun and Hayker are both active lurking to an offensive level, they are both scummy.
I don't think I support the Richard wagon at this point, I'd rather lynch Raiv if I had to choose between the two and I don't like the sudden scramble to Richard in light of the Raiv claim - what exactly about that claim suddenly puts Richard back in play when previously he was not an option?

Im thinking we lynch richard for a win-win. If he is scum, yay. If he is telling truth, vig blows someone like CMAR up

Do you find Richard scummier then CMAR? Why not just lynch CMAR if CMAR is that scummy?

[Rifka Viveka]

@thor;Sad as it is, i suspect cmar will actually flip town. But in this situation with richard being very scummy(actually he got scummier after his claim than before) and richards claim being what it is, i think it makes more sense to go with him. As i said, either way on a richard lynch we have a high chance of hitting scum this way. i dont think its likely out of two scummy players, both will flip town. budja and vezo are good canidates for vigging too though

More succinctly, lynching CMAR will only lynch CMAR, but a richard lynch will both lynch richard and kill CMAR, or just hit scum

[Mikujin]

You people need to stop exploding the thread like this, I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever catch up (currently I'm on Page 17 - I'm slow, I suck, I know).

I'm really not liking vezopiraka's play either now or then, it almost seems too sadly obvious to be scummy (take what cheese with this wine you will) but his constant flipping around, lack of explanations on his suspicions, and desire to manage some vote, any vote, without any seeming preference just rubs me in very unpleasant ways.

I now see why someone joked about my CMAR read as now I've gotten to that unvote/soft claim thing. I agree with everyone who has commented about his most recent post as well, it was a non functional post. I still don't particularly want him lynched right now.

Mikijun and Hayker are both active lurking to an offensive level, they are both scummy.

I don't think I support the Richard wagon at this point, I'd rather lynch Raiv if I had to choose between the two and I don't like the sudden scramble to Richard in light of the Raiv claim - what exactly about that claim suddenly puts Richard back in play when previously he was not an option?

Im thinking we lynch richard for a win-win. If he is scum, yay. If he is telling truth, vig blows someone like CMAR up

Do you find Richard scummier then CMAR? Why not just lynch CMAR if CMAR is that scummy?

IIRC, I stop lurking around page 20, or something, after I finally did a full read-through and caught up.

@thor;Sad as it is, i suspect cmar will actually flip town. But in this situation with richard being very scummy(actually he got scummier after his claim than before) and richards claim being what it is, i think it makes more sense to go with him. As i said, either way on a richard lynch we have a high chance of hitting scum this way. i dont think its likely out of two scummy players, both will flip town. budja and vezo are good canidates for vigging too though

More succinctly, lynching CMAR will only lynch CMAR, but a richard lynch will both lynch richard and kill CMAR, or just hit scum

A Richard lynch does

not

secure both Richard and CMAR:
1) We can't confirm Richard is town.
2) If Richard is town, we can't say for certain Ser Loras will use his vig kill, and if he does, use it on CMAR. If Renly is its own faction, they may save it for later use.

Unless, of course, you're softclaiming Ser Loras and telling us you'll vig CMAR?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@CMAR's last post: You haven't provided any contents whatsoever for the last few posts. All they've basically been were "I'm catching up!" excuse. I'm tired of waiting. Unless your claim is great, you can die.

Beric Dondarrion,

Innocent Aligned

My bolding. Something that was missing from Richard's claim, I'd like to point out.

Nice catch there. I should have noticed that ages ago. Also note that hasdgfas said earlier that RichardGHP's claim sounded a lot like a Mafia Godfather role in another Mafia game (Vengeful I think).

Mikijun and Hayker are both active lurking to an offensive level, they are both scummy.

I understand that you're still reading, but Hayker has already flaked out of this game.

[Rifka Viveka]

2) If Richard is town, we can't say for certain Ser Loras will use his vig kill, and if he does, use it on CMAR. If Renly is its own faction, they may save it for later use

Your suggesting richard be town\truthfull and the kill goes to an avenging scum?! Okaaay

Unless, of course, you're softclaiming Ser Loras and telling us you'll vig CMAR?

Fishing expedition much?

Presumably whoever gets this vig, if true+town, will deliver it on an appropriate target like CMAR, as i stated previously. All you seem to do is raise pointless objections in your last posts. Whats your plan exactly?

[Unsight]

Why are all the votes shifting to someone who is most probably town?

This is idiotic.

RichardGHP shouldn't be lynched just because apparently Ser Loras can vig someone on his behalf. He should live so the scum have to waste a nightkill on him.

[hasdgfas]

@CMAR's last post: You haven't provided any contents whatsoever for the last few posts. All they've basically been were "I'm catching up!" excuse. I'm tired of waiting. Unless your claim is great, you can die.

Beric Dondarrion,

Innocent Aligned

My bolding. Something that was missing from Richard's claim, I'd like to point out.

Nice catch there. I should have noticed that ages ago.

It's in the first post. Saying that means nothing towards innocence. Any decent scum will have pointed it out to their buddies for their claims. This is why putting it in or leaving it out doesn't mean anything. Note that Richard

already replied to this

, yet you completely ignore his answer to it.

Im thinking we lynch richard for a win-win. If he is scum, yay. If he is telling truth, vig blows someone like CMAR up

Decent idea, but I feel that's not nearly as useful now as it would be later. There are way too many scummy-looking players to make a vengeful vig kill worthwhile.

[Percy]

I find it quite amusing that dana voted Raivann after I goaded him into doing it, and then turns around and says he's ignoring me (the FoS is truly precious). My case is solid (even if Raivann's claim is truthful), the trend is clear.
After all, I don't need to convince dana of his scumminess, just everyone else

hasdgfas' question to vezopiraka is well put. Add to that:

Obv fakeclaim.
You were voting to raise CMAR.
I don't want to lynch a vig now.

Mikujin already pointed this out, but I'm unable to resolve this cognitive dissonance. Turns out vezo is too.
I think vezo is a good bet for scum.

I'd also like to point out that scum only got fake

names

rather than fake

roles

in the mini IIRC. That doesn't mean things haven't changed, though; still,

That being said, yes we must assume the scum have fake claims

Why must we?

I have yet to form a solid opinion on Raivann's vig claim right now, beyond saying that I don't think Raivann should be the lynch today. If he survives tonight then we can ask him who he killed and why, determine if the kill flavour matches up etc., but a claimed vig in a potentially multi-scum game who's played like Raivann has shouldn't last long - either at the hands of another killing faction, or lynching.

Even if Raivann tries to pull the "I was roleblocked" card for the rest of the game, he guarantees that the

real

vig targets him. Only doubt in my mind is that he could be a serial killer.

Or that he could be a serial killer

and

there be no town vig...?
I'm a bit confused about this. See, you also say:

I'm not sure how likely it is for there to be a full vig AND a one-shot vig.

...so it seems to me that assuming there is a full-power actual-vig (and you seem to, since you warn them not to CC) in the case of Raivann-scum doesn't match up...?

Claiming a PR is NOT a free pass out of a lynch.

I lol'd.

Why are all the votes shifting to someone who is most probably town?

It's a best worst case scenario. Why do you think Richard is town?
Do you think SSBF should be the lynch for the day?
Also, I think scum would be very reluctant to shoot Richard. What do the scum gain by choosing him as an NK target?

---

OK, so the plan goes something like this:
-We lynch Richard, either we hit scum or
-Loras shoots CMAR, and we lynch Raivann tomorrow.

I could get behind this. I think Richard has demonstrated that, even if he's a townie, the most useful thing about him is his claim; and my top two suspects get dispatched if it turns out he's town.

However, I have a revulsion to voting players I think may be town. I'd actually believe Richard over Raivann at this point, simply because a full-auto vig and possible multiscum makes my head spin with swing.

I don't want to overthink this, and perhaps leaving them both alive for a little while is the better plan... I'm going to think about this some more, and do another re-read before deadline.

Unvote, Vote: CryMeARiver

for now - in the absence of a solid plan, CMAR is a solid wagon.

I think Raivann should shoot vezopiraka, dana or SSBF.

[Unsight]

Why are all the votes shifting to someone who is most probably town?

It's a best worst case scenario. Why do you think Richard is town?
Do you think SSBF should be the lynch for the day?
Also, I think scum would be very reluctant to shoot Richard. What do the scum gain by choosing him as an NK target?

I've already said why I think he's town--his play mirrors his town play in Mafia 110 and his claim is highly believable.

I would loooooove for SSBF to be the lynch for the day but apparently my ideas don't get steam unless they're restated with 5 times as many words like Julienvonwolfe did here.

I also think scum would be very reluctant to shoot Richard. That's win/win to me. We get a vengeance kill or a confirmed townie for the game.