A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[vezokpiraka]

I see SSBF super scummy this game. His last argument is awful.
We shouldn't use a cop investigation on me. Use it someone like Mina to confirm her. If I get confirmed people will get annoyied and I can't help the town too much.

unvote

Forgot the cop thingy has to hapen before the lynch.

[Macavitar]

Scum!Percy would have an interest in eliminating those who could nightkill him as quickly as possible.

I agree. Percy would have been in a huge position of advantage for the Greyjoys given his double vote and place on the Kingsguard. I think the Greyjoy kills could have likely been targeted toward his detractors.

I was under the impression that those listed at the bottom are those viewing the entire Theme Park, not just this thread. Test for yourself. Load up a thread, look at those listed as viewing, and go back to Theme Park and look at the list. I think you will find that they are the same if you do it fast enough.

That all said I know for a fact that SSBF is actively involved in another Theme Park ongoing game. So attack him for not posting but don’t use incorrect data to support it.

I see. I was under the impression that it was per thread viewing, but if that's how it is then I could be incorrect. I would however argue that he was online almost the entire afternoon (I was working and tracking his presence) and I find it slightly implausible that he didn't check this thread for hours and hours. Additionally, he has yet to respond to me calling him out about not posting, even though he's posted now. I see no reason not to acknowledge it and say he wasn't here if he actually wasn't.

I'm suspicious the voting stage is going to be one of those silent votes (like the stabbing yesterday) so I personally advocate we come to a bit of consensus prior to the thread lock. I'd probably advocate Macavistar and hasdsdfkajg as my top two picks from my own list presuming we lynch SSBF. If either of them are scum I'd like to know so we can kill them, and conversely I like the way they post and investigate (I'll clarify the new half of Macavity does this for me more then the predecessor) - so if they're town I'd like to know I can trust their reads more.

I agree that we should be investigating someone who has scum vibes, but is harder to read. hascow is a decent way to go or making us confirmed town is good. I kind of disagree with your perspective on vezo in the sense that having a confirmed town VI is actually a very bad thing for scum. They can't leave the person alive until LYLO and forcing their hand to kill a VI potentially saves a more useful person for later in the game. tl;dr cutting down on mislynches is a good thing.

I just really need to reiterate to people that going down the road of 'flavor is god' is a really really bad idea that has lost town's more than one game. I can't really speak to what is right or wrong since I have no knowledge of the theme, but what I can say affirmatively is read the rules:

21) Flavour in night/day write up's is just that ; flavour. Knowledge of the theme may help but as you can see from the initial write up's it's not necessarily canon.

Just because someone is lannister or greyjoy in the book doesn't mean they can't be a neutral SK in this game that is hacking people to pieces. /rant

Nothing, actually. I just don't spend every waking minute wondering what's going on in this game. (Though I usually do leave my browser on at home with this and several other pages open).

So you hadn't read the opening posts of the day with the kill and investigation information before you posted for the day?

We shouldn't use a cop investigation on me. Use it someone like Mina to confirm her. If I get confirmed people will get annoyied and I can't help the town too much.

sure you don't want to investigate right here Thor?

[Rifka Viveka]

Vezo is telling the truth though. IMO he just needs to get wacked

[Thor665]

I agree that we should be investigating someone who has scum vibes, but is harder to read. hascow is a decent way to go or making us confirmed town is good. I kind of disagree with your perspective on vezo in the sense that having a confirmed town VI is actually a very bad thing for scum. They can't leave the person alive until LYLO and forcing their hand to kill a VI potentially saves a more useful person for later in the game. tl;dr cutting down on mislynches is a good thing.

I see your logic, but I only can emotionally deal with one Richard a game. Two confirmed players sitting around going 'herp-da-derp' would probably be akin to putting a screw into my head every day of gameplay. In other words; I already feel we have one cleared VI at the moment, why not get a cleared non VI next? You and cow have a lot of scum vibe on you to a couple of players, confirming or removing that vibe would be quite functional to town and if we have to do a mislynch I don't see why mislynching one of you is somehow intrinsically superior to mislynching vezo. Am I missing something?

[xvart]

First, does anyone on the Kingsguard have anything to add to Mina's account of the N1 transcription? Anything she missed or forgot to mention?

He

[Percy]

advises Raivann to shoot one of {danakillsu, SSBF, vezopiraka, CSL, Kinetic}. Considering he knew Raivann's kill was fake,

there is a high chance that one of the people on that list is his scumbuddy

(Caveat: since his targets were all group suspects, it's nothing conclusive). Says that four of them are better off vigged than alive, but that perhaps SSBF is better off keeping around for another day. (

I'd say this counter-intuitively makes SSBF a less likely Greyjoy. Would Percy bother to subtly defend a buddy when he knows the kill won't go through? But again, it's not conclusive either way.

)

What is the difference if he subtly defends SSBF in this way? The kill is not going to go through regardless so I don't see the problem of scumPercy saying anything. Unless SSBF dies later (which during N1 was not obvious, I think; SSBF starting raising big suspicion D2) it would have no effect on scumPercy since the kill wouldn't go through. Did he give any justification for keeping SSBF around?

2)

Hascow

says it's okay, he was also geeking out, more welcoming stuff, etc. He says he'd have to look at the game again to see who he'd pick as the seventh. Says we have a pretty good group so far, and that Raivann was a good choice whatever you thought of his play. Asks if we should trust each other to nameclaim or roleclaim, or if we should keep it a secret just in case there are scum in the QT.

(That rose a minor red flag at the time.)

This is concerning to me. I believe that scum have a greater benefit in having a name claim in the closed situation like the Kingsguard. If Cow is scum and has a fake claim he is essentially safe and has more knowledge of possibly spotting fake claims, or worse, fishing out power roled flavor (especially considering that he seems pretty knowledgeable about the flavor). I can't think of a benefit of town at that point to know everyone's name, especially under the pretext of "trusting each other."

@Mina: I understand your CSL case, I think it has a lot of merit, and I know you don't want us to forget it. That said, CSL is looking very unlikely to be the lynch right now. Why not help us and get behind dana or SSBF?

Mostly this. It's almost definitely not happening today, because I think SSBF is much worse, but if that breaks down for some reason, I'll gladly look closer at CSL. SSBF is just so incredibly scummy right now it's insane.

This strikes me as weak justification for not being on an alternate wagon to SSBF. I agree with Benmage about Cow not really having a solid case or being able to articulate it. I'm starting to believe that this wagon might have been just an alternative to either the CSL or the dana wagon; but more than likely the dana wagon since CSL was obviously not going anywhere. And, Cow doesn't even mention anything about dana; the offer to switch to either wagon is presented and he'll look at CSL (not dana, the other leading wagon) if the SSBF wagon breaks down.

Also the point Benmage raised about Cow active lurking and Cow coming back to say he wasn't "active lurking" but just not posting (lurking) is odd. Why split hairs about this unless he was trying minimize the perceived scummy behavior?

I think it is likely that Cow could be a Lannister. I do think that some of this evidence might be circumstantial, so I would support having the God's investigate Cow today. Cow, what town benefit do you think would have been gained for the KG to know everyone's role name or role?

xvart.

[Macavitar]

I see your logic, but I only can emotionally deal with one Richard a game. Two confirmed players sitting around going 'herp-da-derp' would probably be akin to putting a screw into my head every day of gameplay. In other words; I already feel we have one cleared VI at the moment, why not get a cleared non VI next? You and cow have a lot of scum vibe on you to a couple of players, confirming or removing that vibe would be quite functional to town and if we have to do a mislynch I don't see why mislynching one of you is somehow intrinsically superior to mislynching vezo. Am I missing something?

I guess VIs don't bother me as much as they do you. Sure they're semi-useless, but I think there are enough competent players (some basically confirmed, you and benmage for example) that we can figure out who the scums are and we only really need the VIs to vote in the appropriate spots. You're right in the sense that cleared non-VI is more powerful, but I also see those people as someone scum is likely to kill sooner or later anyhow. At least in my own experience, I know I'll be getting NKed sooner or later as I continue to scumhunt and it becomes clear that I'm town. A VI meanwhile will be left alive by the scum indefinitely unless that person becomes confirmed because they are low-hanging mislynch fruit. But it's up to the town ultimately. An investigation on my slot or on Cow is definitely useful in its own way and worth considering.

[hasdgfas]

Cow, what I'd like to see from you is heavy-duty scumhunting instead of soft questions, superficial observations, and defence.

Questions are my main scumhunting tool. "heavy-duty scumhunting" differs from person-to-person. If I feel I need to make a case on someone, I will, but don't try to tell me I'm not scumhunting because I don't do it the same way as you. I'm scumhunting in my own way.

Answer this:

1) Which two players do you think are most likely to be Greyjoys?

2) Which two players do you think are most likely to be Lannisters?

3) Whom do you think should be investigated today? (Obviously, you want SSBF lynched.)

4) Do you think I'm a Lannister, given the Kingsguard poisonings (and given that you should know you're not guilty if you're town)?

1) SSBF(duh), Mikujin(look at his reaction to Locke's softclaim.)
2) Unsight(went after LMP yesterday and had a couple people say "don't do that" makes me wonder....)(actually, I may look through Unsight to see what I can see here, there's more than I thought.), CSL(vibes)
3) as of right now, me. I want your fears assuaged, and it seems like a bunch of other people want to be sure I'm town to pay more attention to my reads. Other than me, xvart. I don't have a clue what I think of him.
4) Tell me why you're asking the question and I'll tell you my answer. This seems like an entirely loaded question that you can jump on me for my answer regardless(seen these

way

too often in games), so tell me why you're asking it.

This strikes me as weak justification for not being on an alternate wagon to SSBF. I agree with Benmage about Cow not really having a solid case or being able to articulate it. I'm starting to believe that this wagon might have been just an alternative to either the CSL or the dana wagon; but more than likely the dana wagon since CSL was obviously not going anywhere. And, Cow doesn't even mention anything about dana; the offer to switch to either wagon is presented and he'll look at CSL (not dana, the other leading wagon) if the SSBF wagon breaks down.

Because CSL was the one being discussed? I was already looking at dana due to him being the other leading wagon. I should think that would be obvious.

Also the point Benmage raised about Cow active lurking and Cow coming back to say he wasn't "active lurking" but just not posting (lurking) is odd. Why split hairs about this unless he was trying minimize the perceived scummy behavior?

Dana was the one who called me out for active lurking, btw. Anyway, my pet peeve is claims to anyone of active lurking when it's not active lurking. There's huge differences in connotation between the two.
I also did not say I'm lurking.

HUGE

leap in logic from me saying "I'm not posting all the time" to me saying "I'm lurking". I

really

dislike that twisting of words.

FoS

Cow, what town benefit do you think would have been gained for the KG to know everyone's role name or role?

It locks them into a claim, whether rolename or role. Claiming something that, if you change it later, there are 6 others to call you out on is an incredibly powerful tool.


I'm going to look at Unsight soon. Hopefully today, but no promises, as I'm still technically on vacation.

[CSL]

Unvote

as requested. Forgot about the cop thing as well.

[CSL]

V/LA from playing until my head clears.

[Thor665]

I guess VIs don't bother me as much as they do you. Sure they're semi-useless, but I think there are enough competent players (some basically confirmed, you and benmage for example) that we can figure out who the scums are and we only really need the VIs to vote in the appropriate spots.

Let me put it this way to explain why vezo is probably under my skin more then the usual VI.

He has said (paraphrase) 'I am useless to town, town needs to kill me.'

If he's town, then he's telling the truth (and needs to replace out)
If he's scum then this is all lies and he needs to die.

I want him to replace out or I want him dead. I see no value in clearing him if he's staying in his slot.

[Benmage]

Yeah I think we might as well just dayvig vezo tomorrow.

[Eddard Stark]

Votecount 3.4 The '

If I look back, I am lost

' votecount.

Super Smash Bros. Fan (3) -

Diddin, Unsight, Macavitar

Vezokpiraka (2) -

Benmage, RichardGHP

Unsight (1)

MagnaOfIllusion

Hasdgfas (1)

Mina

Rifka Viveka (1)

Locke Lamora

CSL (1)

xvart

Not Voting (6)-

Thor665, Mikujin, Vezokpiraka, Rifka Viveka, Hasdgfas, Axelrod, Vezokpiraka, CSL

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Those who wish to prove themselves to the gods (have stepped forward)

Diddin, Super Smash Bros. Fan, Axelrod, Rifka Viveka, CSL, xvart, Thor665, Mina, Vezokpiraka, Macavitar, Unsight, MagnaOfIllusion, Hasdgfas, RichardGHP,Benmage, Mikujin

Deadline for today is Wednesday August 11th @ 6:30 EST.

[diddin]

Why aren't you stepping forward Locke? The quicker everyone steps forward, the quicker we can get our free cop scan, which makes this game less likely to die between now and the time of the scan.

[Benmage]

Why aren't you stepping forward Locke? The quicker everyone steps forward, the quicker we can get our free cop scan, which makes this game less likely to die between now and the time of the scan.

Locke's pretty damn confirmed right now. We're not gonna make him most worthy so this is really null, but I see no reason why he can't step forwrd.

That said I think most of us will rest more easily with Cow stepping forward. He seems fine with it, and yes it may add more credit to his reads.

Assuming we have no juicy interactions tomorrow we should leave Vezo to be dayvigged tomorrow by Thor, who seems to want this guy dead, so win win.

Continuing, we now need to come up with a likely lynch for today. It's the weekend, so not sure how much I can accomplish, but I'll get cracking into this asap.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@hasdgfas: Okay, wait a minute. You said that you would want to investigate someone you had no clue about. One of those people you want want to investigate is xvart, saying you had no clue about him. But then you put down a FoS on him. Putting down a FoS on a person indicates that you find the person suspicious in some way or form, so it kind of moots the point about you having no clue about xvart.

---

Vote: Super Smash Bros. Fan

Caught you stalking this thread and yet you appear to be strategically avoiding commenting on Percy's flip for now. Diescumdie.

I have not been completely avoiding the thread. If I was, then I would have gone for days before making any post here whatsoever.

Really? You'd rather investigate someone scummy than someone that's hard to read and a ton of people are unsure about? That's slightly bizarre, IMO.

If we investigate a person that is hard to read and turns up town, we would end up wasting an investigate that could be used on people that the majority suspect, which would yield more information. Not only that, the scum would have to kill that townie that the majority previously suspected. It helps town more to investigate someone scummy then someone with a null read.

What?

I'm think we have six or seven anti-townies in the game overall. If we were able to do a joint-lynch between two people, this would increase the chances of a person flipping scum. Instead of 1/18 chance of a person flipping scum, we have a 1/9 chance of one of those two people flipping scum. Both people lynched flipping scum would help town even more.

We shouldn't use a cop investigation on me. Use it someone like Mina to confirm her. If I get confirmed people will get annoyied and I can't help the town too much.

I personally don't object to you receiving a cop investigation. Since I have never been a fan of your play under any circumstance, this would be the perfect oppertunity to reveal if you're town or scum.

On top of that, saying you can't help the town much is a really bad statement.

[hasdgfas]

@hasdgfas: Okay, wait a minute. You said that you would want to investigate someone you had no clue about. One of those people you want want to investigate is xvart, saying you had no clue about him. But then you put down a FoS on him. Putting down a FoS on a person indicates that you find the person suspicious in some way or form, so it kind of moots the point about you having no clue about xvart.

What the heck are you talking about? Just because someone did something suspicious doesn't mean I have a clue about their alignment. Town people do suspicious things often, that's why there are mislynches. One thing that they do that I hate doesn't mean I have a solid read on them.

Really? You'd rather investigate someone scummy than someone that's hard to read and a ton of people are unsure about? That's slightly bizarre, IMO.

If we investigate a person that is hard to read and turns up town, we would end up wasting an investigate that could be used on people that the majority suspect, which would yield more information. Not only that, the scum would have to kill that townie that the majority previously suspected. It helps town more to investigate someone scummy then someone with a null read.

LOGIC ERROR
DOES NOT COMPUTE
correct play is

never

investigate someone scummy. Would you like me to explain further? I can, but it just seems so obvious.

What?

I'm think we have six or seven anti-townies in the game overall. If we were able to do a joint-lynch between two people, this would increase the chances of a person flipping scum. Instead of 1/18 chance of a person flipping scum, we have a 1/9 chance of one of those two people flipping scum. Both people lynched flipping scum would help town even more.

STATISTICS ERROR
DOES NOT COMPUTE
Not everyone has an equal chance of being scum once the game has gotten to this point. Not to mention that it's not random, so those stats are meaningless once you get past the initial role assignments

We shouldn't use a cop investigation on me. Use it someone like Mina to confirm her. If I get confirmed people will get annoyied and I can't help the town too much.

I personally don't object to you receiving a cop investigation. Since I have never been a fan of your play under any circumstance, this would be the perfect oppertunity to reveal if you're town or scum.

On top of that, saying you can't help the town much is a really bad statement.

Why would a vezo investigation help us? Please, tell me. Would it change his play? Would the town listen to him more?

[vezokpiraka]

SSBF said that cause he is scum and wants us to waste our investigation on a player who is likely to get lynched/vigged or something.

[Locke Lamora]

Well, if it'll hurry things up, I'll:

Step Forward

I'll be catching up properly tonight.

[Eddard Stark]

As one by one, the gathered lord, ladies and common folk step forward, nobody is left behind. All claim to want the truth about themselves known.

The septas and septons begin the chant. The seven faced god of Westeros will hear their words and their prayers.

You may now vote for he or she whom shall be revealed at the end of the day. You may do so by typing

Light a candle for : Eddard Stark.

Douse candle

can be used.

The prayers will be tallied alongside the lynch votes. 9 candles are needed for the investigation to take place. The results will be revealed at the end of day scene. If a majority is not reached before either the deadline or the lynch, no investigation will take place.

[vezokpiraka]

Let's investigate cow.

[Thor665]

Light a candle for: Macavitar

Basically a player who has been lurking in the periphery of my scum cloud since the game began and I still can't fully manage to put words to the feeling. With the new hydra in place I have found his posts much more interesting and insightful. I could also probably support haskdslajhagl (looking for Lannistar King'sguard) or Rifka (difficult neutral read) if people got excited in that direction.

[Thor665]

Let's investigate cow.

You've noted that you're useless to town and probably need to be killed.

Why do you not simply replace out?

[vezokpiraka]

Cause I like this game. And maybe I get something to make you listen to me.

[Rifka Viveka]

Vezo, unless you could produce a list of previous games, and accurate info showing how you call scum a good portion of the time and simply have a hard time convincing people of it-NO ONE is going to be listening to a confirmed-town-vezo.

Light a candle for : Rifka Viveka

cause i like candles

[vezokpiraka]

Ok. Here is the link. I had a lot of suspicion on me the entire game. I called the scum RBer but nobody saw that. The vig shot him and after that the game went smooth. I don't remember if I called powerrox in thread too but I had a lot of suspicion on him day1 and day 2.
There are more of my games there but half of them are in progress.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthre ... 57&page=16