Succession Mafia (OVER!)

[Friend]

About the zwet vote: Just because Furcolow voted for Seraphim doesn't make him scum. I had been (and still am) getting a strong gut town feel from Furc, and zwet seemed to be taking advantage of Furc's VI-ness.

My vote on you was completely logical. RC's vote was not illogical - town can't tell the difference between recruiter and recruited and should thusly just lynch whoever is the scummiest. You trying to lead the town and divert attention from someone who has a high chance of being the recruited (you) is scummy.

Furcolow's vote was pretty poor, but I'm still getting those vibes.

Basically, I called you and Furcolow scum, and the response from both of you was to vote me for no logical reason.

This is a blatant lie (well maybe not for Furc, but with regards to me). Again, that's not the reason I voted you and you're spinning my actions to fit your case against me.

[Yosarian2]

My vote on you was completely logical. RC's vote was not illogical - town can't tell the difference between recruiter and recruited and should thusly just lynch whoever is the scummiest.

Um, the post of yours I was responding to was "experenced players are more likely to be recruited by the scum". The entire point of your first post was to find someone who had been recruited. And then you later accused me of being a recruit.

YOU were the one who was trying to find the recruit, not me. If that was RC's case, then he should have voted you, since you are the one who was trying to make a distinction between recruit and recruited. I was trying to figure out if you had pro-town motivations behind your moves. That was the context behind which I tried to figure out if town should be trying to find the recruit or not, was in analyzing your own self-professed attempt to find the recruit.

So basically you are voting me because I was trying to figure out if your action was pro-town or not.

You trying to lead the town and divert attention from someone who has a high chance of being the recruited (you) is scummy.

And now, right after your whole theory about how town can't tell the difference between recruit and recruiter, you call me the recruit, again. Basically completely contradicting the entire point you made in your last paragraph.

Argh, the complete lack of logic here is just painful. You made an argument that "experienced players might be more likely to be recruited" or whatever. Then, when I questioned you following that line of reasoning by wondering why you're looking for the recruit instead of the recruiter, you tried to pretend that there was no difference between the two, even though your entire case was based on the difference between the two. And now you're trying to have it both ways in the exact same post!

Basically, I called you and Furcolow scum, and the response from both of you was to vote me for no logical reason.

This is a blatant lie (well maybe not for Furc, but with regards to me). Again, that's not the reason I voted you and you're spinning my actions to fit your case against me.

Neither you nor your buddy RC have yet to give anything even remotely close to be a logical reason to vote for me, and I think you know it.

[Friend]

Hm. I see what you're saying.

[vezokpiraka]

Is there anything important I should read in the last 4 pages?
Anyway Friend is still scum.
He gave insight only after being prodded for so long by us.

[Furcolow]

feels like yosarian is squirming as scum

[Porochaz]

ani, your title says you make 95.7% noise so thats around 19 out of 20 posts being worthless, yet you have made 38 posts and not one of them is useful in any way. Im expecting the next 2, too actually be saying something useful.

[Erg0]

Odd that Lord Gurgi spoke of competing wagons being a false dilemma, and then voted for Friend anyway. Token pro-town sentiment?

I'm not sure what competing wagon you think I'm endorsing? There's a difference between voting for an underdog wagon and endorsing two wagons simultaneously.

Hadn't read this yet when I posted this morning (my time) - I'm still a couple of pages behind and gaining fast.

My point is that a false dilemma would be "one of these two wagons is on scum". If you're voting for Friend then you presumably think he's scum, which means that the choice between him and gandalf isn't actually a false dilemma from your perspective.

My original point was really that xvart appeared to be creating a situation where he could let others do the work in building the wagons, and then jump onto whichever was convenient. It wasn't so much about the actual alignment of the people being wagoned.

[Erg0]

Ergo randomly walked into the thread, saw my vote on dramonic, and thought "whelp". Good job.

I made my earlier post (496) after just reading the post that I quoted. I then skim ahead a bit and see that you've changed your vote

twice more

since then, neither accompanied by what I'd call a reason. Given that I was calling you out for vote hopping, it shouldn't surprise you too much that you're reinforcing my earlier view.

The Yosarian2 wagon is crappy WIFOM and will fail. Save yourselves the trouble.

[Chronopie]

Having read back over the latter half of the game, I would now like to call for an end to the Yos 2 wagon.

While it is true that being a high profile player makes him (and others of his Calibre) a prime recruitment target, it is also true that it's a) Wifom-y after all, that's what we expect, and b) it doesn't solve the problem. We need to cut the heads off the snakes, not chop away at the tail.

[gandalf5166]

@Gandalf: were you

really

unable to tell from Furcolow's posting that he had a VI-type meta?

Yes, but with VIs, you have to get familiar with their meta to read them. It's how I work, man. So LINKS PLOX!!!!!!!

Ok, so shouldn't you have asked about his meta

before

you voted him?

Odd that Lord Gurgi spoke of competing wagons being a false dilemma, and then voted for Friend anyway. Token pro-town sentiment?

No. Guilty until proven innocent.

[ooba]

- I really do not understand Porochaz's insistence on Friend scum
- Faraday's really buddying up to friend - beyond the call of duty of a townie who even has a certain read - Could be recruit buddying up to somebody else to paint him as CL but I'll still put Faraday under townie though ..
- Friend's WIFOM about recruiting is bad town play

- Andruis you have to post more or take more stances before I can slot you on the list. I'm confused about furclow because like Yos it started with a town read then went to "Oh is he scum?" when he started saying he was lying and stuff .. HP mafia still plays on my mind though ..

- @animorph actually appears useful this game. I'll need to read a scum game of his.

- @Vezo, whats up with the ultra dram defense? And you never answered my question about "one of the brothers or scum" bit ..

- @TL, if you think "I think M=W is scum if you're town or vice versa", why would you vote anyone but one of those?

- Yos's list basically attacks everyone I think is town (except furclow). Zwet's "Why did Yos put me under town?" might be opportunistic considering that people were going on the experienced people getting recruited bit.

- I believe Friend vs Yos is town on town and RC is cheerleading the fight.

- Andruis is town for not fueling the fight. zwet chooses a different corner. 515 also reinforces my vibe that RC is cheerleading a Town-Town fight. (Well from his PoV if there are two scum teams, I guess he's cheerleading a non-his-team-member x2 fight)

- 554 Furclow votes for one person out of Yos-Friend while he feels the "other is squirming as scum"

Hence to summarize - I believe Yos vs Friend is town on town and scum from both teams are spurring it on. That'd be
- RC
- Zwet
- Furclow

Unvote. Vote: RC

[TheLonging]

Because ooba, we don't have to necessarily do it today. Tomorrow will be useful sure. Tonight though gandalf dies and we can go from his wagon/today's lynch

[Faraday]

I'm off, will be on limited/no access for 5 days. looks like i'll have some but prepare for the worst and all that.

[animorpherv1]

@ooba:

I've been helpful in town games. Namely, SWN II, when I pay more attention, I can do real well.

[ReaperCharlie]

Hmmm... I make one post about Friend saying he's town, and one post about Yos2 saying he's scum, and I all of a sudden warrant a post from ooba saying how I'm cheerleading the fight between them?

Interesting.

And he mentions it

three

times in his post, lists me at the top of his suspects list, and voted me.

Even more interesting.

I find myself agreeing with Faraday the most in this game - Regarding RC, let him post some more and I'll give you a definite read on him.

I also think it's awesome that you found yourself agreeing with Faraday the most, even though all Faraday had said of any value at that point was this:

Sera - I don't see anything anti-town about Vezo's play thus far. What do you mean? I don't think outing his info was a bad thing, it's always good to be sure when cult mechanics are in play.

Seraphim's town but not because he's replacing out.

Furclow's an idiot but I'm leaning town.

Aim: Reapercharlie

he's scum.

But... at the time he voted me, the only posts I had made were these.

Aim: Lord Gurgi

General vibe of not wanting to step on anyone's toes and draw attention to himself.

Now this I can sheep.

And Lord Gurgi's (suspiciously quick) rebuttal does little to still my emotion, or to stay my hand.

Aim: Lord Gurgi

How convenient then, that you were there just in time to perform some neat and tidy damage control, before others got there to read it without your rebuttal there first.

Hmm.

So, in essence, you (ooba) agreed with his (Faraday's) non-existent case the most out of any that existed at the time, and now you're grasping at straws for a reason to vote for me, even after Faraday unvoted?

(and if you want even more WIFOM, ... YOU were the one whose vote I sheeped the first time, which may have been why he considered me scummy in the first place...)


...


Please explain to me how your "case" and/or your vote makes any sense.

[Friend]

holster, aim: TheLonging

Yeah, still feels the scummiest to me.

[gandalf5166]

I don't need to explain myself to be right.

Inhim, why is "lack of obvtown" enough reason to wagon?

You're always obvtown. Not obvtown makes you seem scummy.

[gandalf5166]

Sorry for the triple post, but I have to know:

Would you guys prefer me to just quote lots of stuff, or do the URL link like I did in 426?

Links. Quote stripes = me shooting you in the face.

[gandalf5166]

Yeah, I know what you mean zwet. It's mostly laziness that makes me unwilling to make cases/wallposts etc. So I share my reads instead in absolute form.

Agree with this. Also taking this opportunity to say that Yos2 is prob-scum.

[gandalf5166]

Basically, town, I'm sorry. I can revert to old, logical, questioning, blatantly protown Friend if need be. The only reason I don't is, when I do, I lose. I hope this helps clarify some things about me and my playstyle, and I hope you'll forgive me for being somewhat anti-town.

Anyways, onto scumhunting:

What RC said.

aim, holster: Yosarian2

Your absolute self is obv town too. As in [ONGOING GAME]. And I had the same dilemma, only minus being obv town. :/

[gandalf5166]

i have scum meta now
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=14990

Where's the town meta. I'm considering an unvote, but I need just a little more.

[Lord Gurgi]

Please stop posting.

[gandalf5166]

Please stop posting.

I've decided to jack Ythan's catchup style. It's easier than links, and doesn't hurt the eyes nearly as much as quote stripes. It's spam, but w/e.

[Furcolow]

I want everyone to re-read this post that I made. I was talking about how chronopie has had 2 posts, and both of them suck and are scum reads.

The recruiting was the whole point of the Flavour. The Deceased Don's Sons want to take over. Therefore we can conclude that they are the recruiters.

Aim: Dram

Hai.

---

So I'm frustrating too am I?

You seem to have a lot of information,
Where'd you get that from?

Saturday Night? It's mid-afternoon Sunday. LAL (but really, it's just timezone differences)

Holster, Aim: Furcolow

Starting with trying to lynch a replacee, then devolving into Insulting people.

I thought the first one was his only post, but I guess he slipped in to try to wagon me on policy and "insulting people". You're 20? Act like it. When you're past being a teenager, I feel like you can begin to get over reading into everything so emotionally. I am getting sidetracked, and I don't want to go off on a tangent.

This guy has made 2 posts: one of which was deep speculation, and the other was bandwagonning on a townie
It is not enough to warrant me voting, but I've got my eye on chronopie

Hot damn you guys post lots.

Holster

I'll calling Gandalf-Furcolow Town-on-Town. Both are horribly abrasive, both make me wish I had Day-Vigging powarz. But both read as pissed-off Townies.

This is where he sees yos2, his scumbuddy, has made a "case" on me to try and get an easy ass mislynch (because that's what I am in the eyes of mafia like them), after chronopie had tried to wagon me already. These two are likely scum together in my eyes, and I am very happy to flip either of them.

wave barrel at

chronopie

[Furcolow]

Having read back over the latter half of the game, I would now like to call for an end to the Yos 2 wagon.

While it is true that being a high profile player makes him (and others of his Calibre) a prime recruitment target, it is also true that it's a) Wifom-y after all, that's what we expect, and b) it doesn't solve the problem. We need to cut the heads off the snakes, not chop away at the tail.

OH, WAIT, IS THAT A CHAINSAW I SEE? I bolded it for you guys. He's calling an end for that wagon. Cute. Lets flip one of these guys and see what's up.

The question now is: who is the likelier recruiter? I am leaning towards chronopie, with yosarian2 being the recruitee
if we can lynch one, we are likely to KNOW where the head is!!