Succession Mafia (OVER!)

[ReaperCharlie]

No, I'm not outguessing the mod (well, kinda, but not really). You're just caught with a poor fake claim and it shows.

If a guy wanted to open a pizzeria in town, he'd have to get approval from the mafia. Right? Ok, makes sense.

But he wouldn't need any permission to LEAVE TOWN. What are they gonna do, chase him down just because he decided to go to Hollywood instead of bodyguard them? It doesn't make sense.

And the part about the 'godfather' (yes, we already know the REAL godfather is dead, and his two sons are taking over. this means each son is now a godfather of his own separate recruiting faction... is this a stretch? not really) having an extra life because of his bodyguard is just the ICING ON THE CAKE!

If dram doesn't flip scum y'all can tar and feather me.

[ReaperCharlie]

P.S. you guys! MASSIVE personal dramonic scum tell dictates that he tries his best to be calm under pressure even when he is biting his fingernails with fear on the inside... you can totally tell in the two games I posted earlier...

...wait a second... Did you guys even

read

his scum meta or were you satisfied with just looking at the links I posted and knowing that scum meta for him exists? Well HERE IT IS AGAIN in case you were actually interested in LYNCHING SCUM. Here, I'll put it in big bold letters so all of you who just skim posts that are more than 2 lines of text will actually see it.

DRAMSCUM META

Werewolf Wisborg Asylum

- http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14071 (dramscum lynched day 1. i was town in this game. Look for the same excuses he's making here: "oh, I'm too busy to pay attention", etc.)

Harry Potter Mafia

- http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14190 (dramscum hounded by me all day 2, but town decided to lynch someone else, and then he flipped SK when the vig took him out that night)

[dramonic]

WWA I was behind.
HPM is SK. If you think SK and scum have the same play you're in for a bad surprise :S

[ReaperCharlie]

1. (WWA) Exactly the response I expected. Still even defending your knownscum play. You know why?

It's because you unconsciously linked your situation in

that

game, to

this

game.

And

that

was your mistake. Why? Because it lets us know you're scum here, too.

2. (HPM) Whether you were SK or mafia is immaterial. You were scum and you play the same as scum when you're about to be lynched. Why? Because it means you'll LOSE. Far from optimal, obviously, because you keep getting nailed as scum, but who am I to judge? I have failed badly as scum as well.

3. (WWA again) So are you saying you're

not

behind in this game?

[Lord Gurgi]

Dante, and I guarded Yos.
Also your request sounds dangerously modkillable, Andrius.

Time for some outguess the mod play. If you were able to guard someone N0, then it follows that the scum were allowed to kill N0. So here's my question, wouldn't someone be dead?

[Chronopie]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13890

Square Enix I. Dram-Scum

He's fairly active, and doesn't play the delaying/catch-up game.

So your point that Dram-scum = Lurker is invalidated.

(I'd post some Dram-Town-Lurker meta, but it's ongoing)

[dramonic]

I was gonna make the post Chrono just made <<

@LG: I've seen PR headstart before, I dont know why it wouldnt happen here.

[dramonic]

I'm going to go on a whim and say Meta doesn't work against me, simply because I play too many games to actually stay stable.
Or something in that vein.
I just don't feel like I play differently, and until I get CORRECTLY meta lynched I'll believe it

[Andrius]

Dante, and I guarded Yos.
Also your request sounds dangerously modkillable, Andrius.

Time for some outguess the mod play. If you were able to guard someone N0, then it follows that the scum were allowed to kill N0. So here's my question, wouldn't someone be dead?

This.
If people were allowed to protect, people should have been allowed to kill.
Or else Dram is lying scum.
Which he is.
Can we get a lynch please?
I'm doing my best to restrain myself...

[ReaperCharlie]

It's funny how hard Chrono is defending dramonic.

[xvart]

If people were allowed to protect, people should have been allowed to kill.

Not necessarily, for so many reasons. Maybe the the scum lord can either recruit or kill in any given night, and they both chose to recruit (I believe I read a game like that before); maybe it was only non-killing PR movement; maybe whatever. And how are you (and LG) possibly using this as a justification as for dramatic being scum since, at least Andrius, has alluded to being a PR, so were you able to use your action last night? Does that make you scum since there were no NKs? And why would a moderator go out of his way to say "you don't need to bodyguard someone night zero because there will be no kills." And, if there are trackers and watchers and other movement informational roles out there they can see a bodyguard doing something.

I'm guessing there are probably multiple bodyguards in this game, based on the flavor and recruiting mechanic. It just seems that would make sense to have the Don's recruiting bodyguards to help protect themselves from the other mafia during the night and leaves the challenge to the town of lynching the Don's sons.

xvart.

[Andrius]

I was able to use my night action last night. Thanks for fishing a bit.
But I do agree with the kill/recruit thing, but wouldn't that be vastly over-powered if they just chose to recruit EVERY night?

[ReaperCharlie]

I was able to use my night action last night. Thanks for fishing a bit.
But I do agree with the kill/recruit thing, but wouldn't that be vastly over-powered if they just chose to recruit EVERY night?

See Lost Boys Mafia (coincidentally, also by Flay)...

[Andrius]

I was able to use my night action last night. Thanks for fishing a bit.
But I do agree with the kill/recruit thing, but wouldn't that be vastly over-powered if they just chose to recruit EVERY night?

See Lost Boys Mafia (coincidentally, also by Flay)...

That's actually pretty cool.
But yeah. I'm not convinced of the kill/recruit thing, since there's no feasible half-way point in between recruiting and not, so. :/

[xvart]

So your recruiting went through last night? It was actually more of a rhetorical question.

Maybe once they have an additional member they can recruit and kill; I don't know, but saying that the bodyguard claim is false because there was no night kill was a terrible justification to rally a lynch, especially if you had a night action that you were able to submit.

I think the hardest thing is going to be picking out the N0 recruits because we have no past behavior to compare with. I believe dramatic's claim of Bodyguard, but that doesn't necessarily clear him of being a N0 recruit, and I doubt that dram would be a N0 recruit based on how much attention he seems to gather in games.

We might also want to consider any claimed people to explicitly state their suspect list before each night so we can cross reference that later and see if they have a quick turnaround due to being recruited.

xvart.

[Andrius]

So your recruiting went through last night? It was actually more of a rhetorical question.

Maybe once they have an additional member they can recruit and kill; I don't know, but saying that the bodyguard claim is false because there was no night kill was a terrible justification to rally a lynch, especially if you had a night action that you were able to submit.

I think the hardest thing is going to be picking out the N0 recruits because we have no past behavior to compare with. I believe dramatic's claim of Bodyguard, but that doesn't necessarily clear him of being a N0 recruit, and I doubt that dram would be a N0 recruit based on how much attention he seems to gather in games.

We might also want to consider any claimed people to explicitly state their suspect list before each night so we can cross reference that later and see if they have a quick turnaround due to being recruited.

xvart.

I'm not a recruiter. A mason-recruiter would be AWESOME though. <3 First one I'd pick is TheLonging, then move from there.
Stop trying to get me to talk about my role.

I agree with the suspect list, but it should be obvious enough. Good players will maintain their reads, those who aren't will not. Simple as that.

[Furcolow]

xvart actually has a pretty good implied point in his last post, that i had been thinking about around a week ago or so about this game. it is because i have played in a recruiting type game before, with 3 factions, and a town. i also played in one where there is only one recruiting faction, and it was a mafia, sort of a cultsy setup. in both games, the town won via a landslide, in the first because the mafia weren't provided with good fakeclaims, and in the second because i was such a baller jailkeeper. that first game still gave me experience on night actions, based on who would recruit who. the second game let me in on how to prevent those via these systems we can implement with our power roles. I doubt you all like me or trust me enough to allow me to coordinate our blues, and I am not pushing for claims AT ALL at this point.

The point of the above is that the people who were recruited night 0 are going to be people who WON'T NORMALLY GET LYNCHED (thanks xvart). You can rule Dramonic out. You can rule me out. Hell, you can probably rule vezokpiraka out. I also don't believe the mod would make any of us the recruiter, unless it is done at random, in which case he still might choose to not do so. I do not know the mod personally, and I am not the mod, so I'm going to quit speculating on that note.

Regardless of who is unlikely to be the recruitee, we need to focus on who is the RECRUITER.
If we keep lynching recruitees, they will always be gaining 2 people at night just with 2 recruiters which is the number i've been seeing thrown around. if we lynch 1, there's going to be another one every single time, taken away from OUR numbers. The people i've been disagreeable with, xvart or chronopie for instance, have both made fairly solid points in relation to this. xvart inspired this post by saying noone would recruit dramonic (wifom, i know), and i have seen chronopie say "we must cut the head off of the snake" which I totally agree with.

So, in conclusion, I implore you all to not worry about the recruitees, but who are the recruiters trying to communicate in thread with their recruitees. that is what to look for.

[Lord Gurgi]

I'm not trying to incriminate Dramonic, I still think his wagon is dumb. It's a question that occurred to me, and I'm not going to keep it quiet.

[xvart]

I agree with the suspect list, but it should be obvious enough. Good players will maintain their reads, those who aren't will not. Simple as that.

Smart recruiters will also recruit people that have similar viewpoints or similar motives and suspicion lists. The question is going to be about the middle of the road people that aren't accurate with their scum lists about either faction; and these people might get recruited back and forth. I wonder what happens to a recruitee who gets recruited again.

So, in conclusion, I implore you all to not worry about the recruitees, but who are the recruiters trying to communicate in thread with their recruitees. that is what to look for.

The problem is we have no real way to differentiate between the two at this point other than game theory discussion (which can be helpful); but I would rather just lynch scum on D1 as opposed to only recruiter hunting and missing.

xvart.

[TheLonging]

Hey I'm just going to say that I don't believe dramonic's claim.

OK.

[Furcolow]

I agree that recruitee lynching > town, but i disagree with you on not solely recruiter hunting
you can be hunting for recruitees/recruiters at the same time, and still miss, something you implied wasn't possible.

if someone is obviously a recruitee, and we have no other leads, sure, i'm ok with that, but what we need to do is cut off the head

[gandalf5166]

Okay, dram is still scum post-claim. For what LG pointed out, mainly. Working with the stars is plausible, but I don't see why the hell dram would be allowed to protect N0. Also, outguessing the mod here, but I believe that he didn't like the way the recruit or kill thing turned out in Lost Boys. So I doubt he did it again.

[Furcolow]

gandalf
3 top town 3 top scum go

[gandalf5166]

Erm... Gimme a sec on that one. I'll have to think.

[Furcolow]

*cue jeopardy music*