A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[CSL]

Mac is Lannister scum. Magna is Greyjoy scum.

GG.

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 6.4 - The "Arthur Dayne " votecount.

Macavitar (1) -

diddin

MagnaOfIllusion (2)

RichardGHP, CSL

CSL (2)

MagnaOfIllusion, Macavitar

Not voting (1) - Thor665

With 6 alive it takes 4 lynch. Deadline found here

[MagnaofIllusion]

If I'm lynched, town loses.

Votes. Off.

Mac's last post has a truncated quote in it.

Appeal to Fear noted. Seriously this is textbook – look at Sharkfinn in the recently completed Smash Bros Large Theme. Late in the game when under pressure he began stating that Town would lose if he was lynched. He snuck out of the lynch and when NKed flipped Mafia.

Magna's 6th post does reek of Greyjoy juice, but once I flip town, then the last townie gets to choose whether Greyjoy or Lannister wins.

If I was scum, I would've self-hammered by now.

More Appeals to Fear.

Care to show reasoning why my ISO 6 is scummy? Or should I simply respond by saying “Look at CSL’s ISO – nothing Town there pure Greyjoyscum at work”.

Why, as the likely last member of a Mafia team would you EVER self-hammer? That makes zero sense.

Look at the last few games I've been scum in. Seriously. I haven't self-hammered as town in a long time.

Give us context – when you self-hammered were you ever the last surviving member of a Team? Because if not your claim isn’t in equivalent situations, is it?

Why would you ever self-hammer as Town?

I’m getting quite tired of the CSL rhetoric that he’s not willing to actually support.

To Do

– Full ISO on CSL to demonstrate why he’s scum.

[CSL]

You're only doing this because the only candidates for Greyjoy scum are the two of us. You are scum. Why aren't you lynched yet?

Mac is Lannister scum for millions of reasons already said, plus his vote on me screams it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Correction - you are the Greyjoy scum. You were scummy from the start and continue to be scummy.

We can do this all day. The only difference is that I'm Town when I say it while you are scum when you do.

[Thor665]

Richard, I hate you.

Please post reply to question.

[RichardGHP]

There is only one logical answer to be given. I trust you have the necessary brainpower to work it out?

[Thor665]

How about we presume I don't and that I also presume you have a more solid reason to not want to lynch CSL then I have to want to lynch him and you try to explain it instead of being vague because you and I are the two obv. towns here and apparently I'm voting wrong and you might want to help me see that.

^^^
add some exclamation points to the above and presume I repost it if you decide to answer pithily again.

[RichardGHP]

I happen to think CSL is town. This feeling is not based off of any specific information; only gut, which is apparantly to be followed.

[Thor665]

My gut disagrees with your gut.

Can you point to any post or general theme that makes you feel he's more townish then scum?

[RichardGHP]

Gah... after an ISO read my head says that he's scum of some sort but my gut just won't accept it.

Unbiased help from the other obv. town?

[Thor665]

I hate looking at ISOs, they always bewilder me.

For me it's partly just how scuzzy he's felt all game and then paired with all this late game AtE nonsense. I'll admit both he and Magna are starting to look like two kids in a wuss-slap fight but I think Magna has overall looked the most town of the pair and the choice for Greyjoy really is CSL or Magna.

I think the question we really have to consider is this one;

CSL had to have it explained to him that he or Magna where an either/or option for Greyjoy.
He votes Magna.
Later unvotes.
Then revotes after being asked why isn't he voting the obv. scum.

The (difficult) question is this; do we think he's needing to have this explained because he's really that flightly of a player and forgot?
Or is it because he's scum and can thus be less solid on his reads and isn't so focused on the logic.

The CSL = scum concept in me says that once you have "obv. scum" it should consume every post as you constantly try to get people to lynch him - others be damned.
The CSL = town concept in me is wondering if CSL scum could really be that sloppy.

That's where I'm at, thoughts?

[Macavitar]

Mac's last post has a truncated quote in it.

Annoyed that the boards haven't been fixed yet, but CSL is correct here. I have now dug through the archives to find the full post, and it can be found here. This isn't as airtight Magna-not-Greyjoy evidence as I thought at first, but I still find it valid. Thus I still think we've PoE'ed it down to CSL as Greyjoy.

[diddin]

CSL and Magna are both quite likely Greyjoys IMO.

Mac should hang today.

[CSL]

Well, I'm doing an ISO read of Magna tomorrow (not game tomorrow. RL tomorrow).

If I find myself lynched before then, I will NOT be a happy camper at endgame when we (town) LOSE.

[MagnaofIllusion]

CSL’s Tour de Force ISO –

Exhibit 1

– Lack of scum-hunting. Seriously, read his ISO. If you can find any semblance of a case made please bring it to my attention. In general his ISO is mostly contained with a series of one to two line posts.

In ISO 1 he throws together a ‘case’ on Kleedrac and ends with this gem –

Conclusion: Distancing and OMGUS votes are scum strategies that this guy didn't close up all the way. This guy is scum. CASE CLOSED. Why the hell isn't he lynched yet?

1. The word distancing doesn’t appear anywhere in the ISO before this. How was Kleedrac distancing when we have no scum flips and he mentions not one of his other ISO 0 scum-reads in ISO 1?
2. OMGUS isn’t a scum-tell.
3. Not the rhetoric at the end? Sound familiar? Yet somehow that slot flipped Town.

ISO 12 – Votes Kleedrac even after his slot died Night 1. Shows a lazy approach to scum-hunting that is likely coming from scum.

ISO 19 – Called Benmage lurker-scum, and immediately retracted in ISO 20. More lazy scum-hunting.

About the guilty claim on Percy: Didn't read the thread.

Kinda hard to actually scum-hunt when you don’t even read the thread.

After 42 I challenge you to find a post that shows accusations against a player that isn’t a simple 1 or 2 line post with no support.

Exhibit 2

– Greyjoy interactions.

ISO 0 – Throws down a Town / Scum list on replace in that throws the Raivann slot as scum yet votes for Kleedrac.

Later in ISO 7, despite not having CMAR in his Town / Scum list from ISO 0 and only mentioning CMAR in his Kleedrac case he has a ‘bigger’ scum-read from CMAR and states Raivann ‘can wait’. This is before Raivann claimed.

After Raivann’s claim we get the following –

Raivann's claim is not safe to assume to be clear. We should keep a close eye on him during this game.

As it was said before, if CMAR flips scum, Raivann is obvscum

1. Reads as distancing from Raivann now that the claim has saved him.
2. Note the attempt to link CMAR scum to Raivann scum. Preparing to say Raivann might not be scum when CMAR eventually flips Town?

Nary any significant appearances by either Percy or Muki to be found.

Exhibit 3

– Catch-all other weirdness

An undercurrent of buddying in general – Read the ISO and look at the way he defers to veteran players like Drip and Mina.

ISO 25 – Claims at approximately L-9 a Vanilla role.

UNVOTE: SSBF
VOTE: Axelrod

Anxiety killed the Day.

Let’s not forget this gem – CSL hammers the Town Doctor without even asking for a claim. After seeing Muki flip watcher and tying in some statements Muki made alluding to seeing multiple people on Locke it makes sense why CSL-Greyjoy would want to hammer without giving Axel a chance to claim.

Wow. I actually thought you were going to lynch me for accidently hammering the doctor.

Times have changed.

Open acknowledgment that his move was scummy and he is shocked to not be lynched. Not a Town perspective.

Mac's claim is believable. This, I go back to who I think was scum in the first place.

Note the inconsistency here. Mac’s claim is believable until Unsight is lynched and suddenly at the dawning of the next day he immediately votes Mac with nary a word why he reversed his thinking.

Then we have this series of posts regarding myself –

Magna is scum?

I was going to lynch MoI in lylo anyways.

These both come from Today before Mac explained to CSL that if he was Town I had to be scum via PoE. Do they sound like someone 'sure' I am scum? Why would CSL-Town want to wait for LYLO for my lynch if I am scum? Yet after Mac points out the obvious logic to CSL suddenly I’m obvscum. The inconsistency is glaring.

And now CSL has spiralled into a wave of Appealing to Fear (lynch me and we lose) and rhetoric. Still no visible signs of scum-hunting from him.

In summary I think this pretty clearly spells out why I’m going to

Confirm VOTE: CSL

[CSL]

Correction - you are the Greyjoy scum. You were scummy from the start and continue to be scummy.

We can do this all day. The only difference is that I'm Town when I say it while you are scum when you do.

From the start? Your read on my ISO does not reflect this.

You know what, we both are going to argue anyways, while Mac coasts. I think we should rid him first, so it's down to You vs Town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You know what, we both are going to argue anyways, while Mac coasts. I think we should rid him first, so it's down to You vs Town.

1. What happened to Mac's claim being believable (YOUR WORDS)?
2. Once again CSL demonstrates he doesn't truly think I'm scum and just want someone lynched so he has a shot at a Kingmaker scenario.

[CSL]

No. You're obvscum. End of that.

Macavitar has been PoE'd as Lannister Scum. You want Kingmaker tomorrow, not me.

[RichardGHP]

The more I look at CSL, the more I think he's scum. I'll probably have my vote on him by the end of the day. Sorry in advance if wrong.

Mod: Hypothetically, what would happen if the only two people left in the game were from opposing scum teams?

[Thor665]

I wish you guys would stop. MoI is the better debater and he's coming out of the exchanges looking better each time - but skill in debate is not a town tell. I don't think either of you are helping. If you want to help address my conversation with Richard, as I see that as the most worthwhile discussion point.

@Richard - thoughts?

Nevermind.

@diddin - you're coasting on a wagon that's not going anywhere, chime in on the CSL/MoI situation or I might just decide to run a wagon on you today for the hell of it.

[RichardGHP]

(@CSL) Take that as a hint. You have about 4 hours to convince me you are town. Not that anyone else is scum, that YOU are TOWN.

[Thor665]

I like the new Richard with a set.

[diddin]

My opinion? I've had enough of this day and CSL has been a lot scummier than Magna recently. Will hammer with permission.

unvote

[RichardGHP]